"transition" vs "transformation"

[anticap]

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Thoughts?

[syndicat]

yeah, i agree with kliman that there has been a long tradition, based on the failures of Leninist state socialism, of confusion about the transition. The transition, as Kliman emphasizes, has to be a relatively brief period of transformation from capitalism to an actual socialisim (lower phase of communism in Marx's language), that is, an actual classless society. This means the working class seizes the means of production, institutes direct worker management, dismantles the old state, and replaces it with some new structure of popular power where the working masses are actually in control. transformation of socialism into a classless society -- early phase of communism -- has to be the same as the transition. there is no such thing as a separate "society" of transition.

[Niccolò Rossi]

My thoughts? Intresting, valid. Not sure what else to add really. Kliman is good.

What do you think about it?

[Meridian]

Minus the philosophical bullshit I agree.

[anticap]

What about the implication that Leninism is based on a conflation of terms, probably due to a mistranslation?

[AK]

yeah, i agree with kliman that there has been a long tradition, based on the failures of Leninist state socialism, of confusion about the transition. The transition, as Kliman emphasizes, has to be a relatively brief period of transformation from capitalism to an actual socialisim (lower phase of communism in Marx's language), that is, an actual classless society. This means the working class seizes the means of production, institutes direct worker management, dismantles the old state, and replaces it with some new structure of popular power where the working masses are actually in control. transformation of socialism into a classless society -- early phase of communism -- has to be the same as the transition. there is no such thing as a separate "society" of transition.
I would call such a transition a revolution.

[anticap]

Don't any Leninists have anything to say to Kliman's implication that Leninism is based on a conflation of terms that may be due to a simple mistranslation?

I felt my blood run cold when I realized what he seems to be implying. I'm shocked that this hasn't received an onslaught of comments from Leninists.

Or am I just reading too much into what Kliman says here?

[Zanthorus]

I can't be bothered to watch it all the way through but is Kliman's statement on Leninism which you mention based on Lenin's misinterpretation of Marx's GothaKritik? If so then that's not exactly new. Just off the top of my head Paresh Chattopadhay's article exploring the differences between socialism in Marx and Lenin (http://libcom.org/library/economic-content-socialism-lenin-it-same-marx) mentions the unwarranted conclusions that Lenin draws from that text.

This does not however mean that Leninism is based solely on a misinterpretation of Marx. There are other contributions to Marxist thought that Lenin made that Leninists could point to e.g his analysis of Imperialism.