Class Struggle in India

[Devrim]

Article talking about various recent workers struggles in India:

http://en.internationalism.org/node/3686

Devrim

[red cat]

This article is flawed right from the beginning as it agrees to the imperialist propaganda of Indian "independence" in 1947.

[Devrim]

This article is flawed right from the beginning as it agrees to the imperialist propaganda of Indian "independence" in 1947.

Deep analysis as ever from our favourite Maoist Muppet, I presume you are referring to this line;


As in the countries in the heartland of capitalism the working class in India has also quite a long history of heroic class struggle, both against direct imperialist exploitation and repression and against the intensified exploitation and oppression by the ‘independent' native bourgeoisie since 1947.

Please note the subtle use of inverted commas around the term 'independent'. In case you are wondering what they are there for, it is because the communist left believe that they are not really independent as national independence is impossible in the current epoch.

Devrim

[red cat]

Deep analysis as ever from our favourite Maoist Muppet, I presume you are referring to this line;



Please note the subtle use of inverted commas around the term 'independent'. In case you are wondering what they are there for, it is because the communist left believe that they are not really independent as national independence is impossible in the current epoch.

Devrim

You believe that India is semi-feudal semi-colonial ?

[Devrim]

You believe that India is semi-feudal semi-colonial ?

No, I think that it is a pretty meaningless phrase really.

We think that capitalism is the dominant mode of production through out the entire planet, and while there may be remnants of feudalism, they exist within the capitalist system, perhaps giving it interesting features, but not undermining its fundamental nature.

To me semi-colonial just seems to be trying to use an outmoded term that doesn't really apply any more to a completely different system of imperialist power relationships.

Devrim

[red cat]

No, I think that it is a pretty meaningless phrase really.

We think that capitalism is the dominant mode of production through out the entire planet, and while there may be remnants of feudalism, they exist within the capitalist system, perhaps giving it interesting features, but not undermining its fundamental nature.

To me semi-colonial just seems to be trying to use an outmoded term that doesn't really apply any more to a completely different system of imperialist power relationships.

Devrim

Then how does imperialism act on other countries ? Through which system ?

[danyboy27]

Then how does imperialism act on other countries ? Through which system ?


imperialism?

[red cat]

imperialism?

Very good ! Here, have a cookie.

[danyboy27]

Very good ! Here, have a cookie.


but imperialism is different from colonialism and foeudalism.

[red cat]

but imperialism is different from colonialism and foeudalism.

Please explain. In details.

[zimmerwald1915]

Then how does imperialism act on other countries ? Through which system ?
Imperialism is a system in itself, a system from which no country can be independent. Even countries where the working class has seized power are not independent from it. They work to destroy it, it is true, but that is not independence, but opposition.

[red cat]

Imperialism is a system in itself, a system from which no country can be independent. Even countries where the working class has seized power are not independent from it. They work to destroy it, it is true, but that is not independence, but opposition.

What I am looking for is a detailed description of relations of production in a country on which foreign imperialism is acting.

[danyboy27]

Please explain. In details.
Colonialism is the building and maintaining of colonies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony) in one territory by people from another territory

In politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics) and in history, a colony is a territory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territory_(country_subdivision)) under the immediate political control of a state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_state).

Feudalism is a decentralized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralization) sociopolitical structure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_structure) in which a weak monarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy) attempts to control the lands of the realm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realm) through reciprocal agreements with regional leaders

Imperialism, defined by The Dictionary of Human Geography, is "the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural and territorial relationship, usually between states

Imperialism is a dominant relation from a state to another.

Has far has we know, the brittish withdrawn from India Long time ago, so we cant say its a colony, its not foeudalism either, its not so much about controling the land.

[red cat]

Colonialism is the building and maintaining of colonies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony) in one territory by people from another territory

In politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics) and in history, a colony is a territory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territory_%28country_subdivision%29) under the immediate political control of a state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_state).

Feudalism is a decentralized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralization) sociopolitical structure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_structure) in which a weak monarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy)attempts to control the lands of the realm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realm) through reciprocal agreements with regional leaders

Imperialism, defined by The Dictionary of Human Geography, is "the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural and territorial relationship, usually between states

Imperialism is a dominant relation from a state to another.

Has far has we know, the brittish withdrawn from India Long time ago, so we cant say its a colony, its not foeudalism either, its not so much about controling the land.

Imperialism did not withdraw from India. The ruling class never withdraws; it is thrown out by the masses, which never happened in India.

In your post you have nowhere actually described the relations of production in a colony.

[ZombieGrits]

oh fer chrissakes, quit arguing semantics

this article is a bit unnecessary, don't you think? I mean, the condition of the workers' movement is pretty shabby all around the globe, and all of our comrades in every developed and developing country face pretty much the same challenge: to transcend bourgeois/imperialist/whatever misinformation about socialism, and to shake the working classes out of their apolitical stupor :thumbup1: