Wikileaks releases video of American troops killing civillinans

[Drace]

This is just sick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH9xSHcFreY

[Havet]

I'm going to donate to wikileaks right now

EDIT: Done :)

[¿Que?]

:crying:

[Havet]

This is just sick.

It is disgusting, to say the least.

[Die Rote Fahne]

Don't act surprised folks, we knew this shit was happening. Just be glad for evidence.

[Che a chara]

Bastards. Fucking maniacs. Slaughtering innocent people is in their job description. I'm seriously disgusted:cursing::thumbdown::ohmy:

[cska]

Jesus fucking Christ! As said in The Counterfeit Traitor: "You can read about a hundred atrocities, hear about a thousand, but you only have to see *one*!" :crying: I can't get that out of my eyes.

I have always considered politics and communism a hobby, and been more concerned about my education and doing something in science. But when my country does something like this I just have no excuse to stand around and do nothing. :mad:

[Drace]

The Fox news site actually mentioned this. I looked at the comments on the article and they were fucking disgusting.

The majority of them justified it with something along the lines of "Its war, civilians are bound to get killed. The journalists were just there at the wrong place at the wrong time."

Or "Whats the big deal. In war time you have to make decisions fast. Its your lives or theirs."

[cska]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0&feature=player_embedded#

Has the full video. Absolutely horrific. Those soldiers are sick.

[Dean]

C'mon guys, get your sources together:

http://collateralmurder.com/

I thought this was very interesting - as we know, the US has been threatening wikiLeaks not to release this.

AJE Blog: WikiLeaks vs the Pentagon (http://blogs.aljazeera.net/americas/2010/04/05/wikileaks-vs-pentagon)

US Rules of engagement for August 2007 (time of shooting) (http://file.wikileaks.org/file/rules_of_engagement.pdf)

Reuters blog on the incident (http://www.reuterslink.org/news/Memorial.htm)

Of course, these kinds of indiscriminate attacks are not uncommon:
James Miller, who died at IDF hands while making a documentary on Palestine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Miller_%28filmmaker%29)

BBC Bias on Palestine: Reuters cameraman killed by IDF shell (http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/2523-the-bbc-bias-on-palestine.html)

Sometimes these attacks are against the media (as in the attack by the US military on the AJE Baghdad Bureau (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/apr2003/jaz-a09.shtml)) but when not, they just exemplify the indiscriminate attacks on the local population.

EDIT: Updated title because I don't think they were US reporters :-P

;)

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

The film has just been shown on BBC News 24, 23:12 local time, with the usual reporting of US comments as gospel truth.

[Luisrah]

It showed in the RTP (Portugal's main news channel)

Apparently they went through all the ''rules'' before shooting, because they thought they were armed with AK-47, and not reporters with cameras.
Strange how they misunderstand a camera for a weapon, but can identify which kind of weapon it is :rolleyes:

After they shot the car, the two children survived but got injured, and they said:
''Whoa, there's children in here.''
''Who told them to bring their children to combat?''
''Yeah''

If it's some anti-imperialist/socialist/communist leader, they'd be calling him a criminal, blah blah human rights.
But since it's good ol America (blessed by god), no one is judged for crimes against humanity.

[Dean]

Follow up - survivors interviewed:
AJE: Justice sought for Iraq deaths (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/04/20104705310123161.html)



The US military says it has no reason to doubt the authenticity of a video leaked through the whistleblower website WikiLeaks showing a US military attack on a group of civilians in Iraq.
In the 2007 attack, a US military helicopter fired on a group of Iraqis, killing 12 civilians, according to the website, including two employees of the Reuters news agency.
The footage from a helicopter cockpit also shows a man stopping to help the injured, but he too is shot dead.
In an Al Jazeera exclusive, Omar al-Saleh speaks to the man's children, who were injured but survived the attack.

[Kléber]

That's awful, stuff like this was already released though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YghXyZCqnL8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AXN3H3BPQU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6i3Pdm0jP4

[Left-Reasoning]

The only thing that's rare about this is that we know about it.

[Bud Struggle]

And that's with living breathing pilots. Imagine how easy it is for drones target and kill.

[Scary Monster]

And that's with living breathing pilots. Imagine how easy it is for drones target and kill.

Well its not like the drones are completely autonomous. Humans in the facility controlling the drone still look at the video feed to identify a target and pull the trigger. The only difference is that the pilots are miles away, rather than in the cockpit.

[Bud Struggle]

Well its not like the drones are completely autonomous. Humans in the facility controlling the drone still look at the video feed to identify a target and pull the trigger. The only difference is that the pilots are miles away, rather than in the cockpit.

Oh I know. But at least pilots are on site and see the people being killed--drone kills are like video game kills.

I'm kind of sour on the whole idea of all this push button killing.

[Scary Monster]

Oh I know. But at least pilots are on site and see the people being killed--drone kills are like video game kills.

I'm kind of sour on the whole idea of all this push button killing.

How close they are to the attack doesnt matter here. Pilots are always looking through a video feed no matter if theyre remote controlling the aircraft or in the aircraft's cockpit. Just because the pilot is physically over the target site doesnt make the kill more up-close-and-personal.

[Publius]

Not to let facts get in the way of a good story, but the people they originally shot at were insurgents armed with AK-47s and an RPG.

You can clearly see both of them in the video.

We all oppose the war in Iraq, but it's simply ridiculous to think that soldiers in a live war zone shouldn't shoot at armed individuals in an area where intense fighting had been going on for four hours.

That said, the attack on the van seems inexcusable. There was no pretense of a threat there.

[#FF0000]

Not to let facts get in the way of a good story, but the people they originally shot at were insurgents armed with AK-47s and an RPG.

You can clearly see both of them in the video.

We all oppose the war in Iraq, but it's simply ridiculous to think that soldiers in a live war zone shouldn't shoot at armed individuals in an area where intense fighting had been going on for four hours.

That said, the attack on the van seems inexcusable. There was no pretense of a threat there.

AKs in Iraq are actually completely normal and legal and you are allowed to own them so you don't get kidnapped and murdered.

There was no "RPG" in the video, and the only RPG they found on the scene was a single grenade that someone nearby had on them, with no launcher anywhere to be seen!

The thing they identify as an RPG is actually, hurf durf, a telephoto lens. They didn't even bother to mistakenly identify the bipod as an RPG, either!

But hey, lets not let facts get in the way of a good story.


How close they are to the attack doesnt matter here. Pilots are always looking through a video feed no matter if theyre remote controlling the aircraft or in the aircraft's cockpit. Just because the pilot is physically over the target site doesnt make the kill more up-close-and-personal.


Wrong. Surprisingly your eyeballs aren't just jacked into a direct video feed when you take a seat in a chopper. It is still possible to look around, use binoculars, and blink! In fact that's what you're supposed to do, so you don't accidentally launch a hellfire missile at a building when a civilian's just about to walk into range (which happened, because they stared at the glowing rectangle).

[#FF0000]

And you know what? Even if the civilians that were murdered DID have RPGs, AKs, tanks, massive fuck-off flak cannons and satellites set up for orbital bombardment with American-skull-seeking bullets, the chopper pilots would still be wrong to shoot them.

Because the chopper shouldn't even be there.

[Scary Monster]

Wrong. Surprisingly your eyeballs aren't just jacked into a direct video feed when you take a seat in a chopper. It is still possible to look around, use binoculars, and blink! In fact that's what you're supposed to do, so you don't accidentally launch a hellfire missile at a building when a civilian's just about to walk into range (which happened, because they stared at the glowing rectangle).

Are you sure? From what ive read, attack helis would not expose themselves and fly directly over the target or low and close enough where binoculars would be effective in identifying a target. I didnt even think binoculars would be practical to use in a combat situation in an attack heli. Isnt that what the targeting designator is for, to identify a target from standoff range? And considering how the victims of the Apache didnt even know it was there, it was obviously a couple miles away. If pilots do indeed use binoculars as standard procedure, then they certainly didnt use em in this instance in the video.

And of course one's eyeballs arent jacked into a direct video feed, but how the heck else are they supposed to identify and lock a target from a few miles away?

[Publius]

EDIT: You're correct, they didn't have an RPG.

It only appeared that way on the video.

My mistake.

[#FF0000]

Are you sure? From what ive read, attack helis would not expose themselves and fly directly over the target or low and close enough where binoculars would be effective in identifying a target. I didnt even think binoculars would be practical to use in a combat situation in an attack heli. Isnt that what the targeting designator is for, to identify a target from standoff range? And considering how the victims of the Apache didnt even know it was there, it was obviously a couple miles away. If pilots do indeed use binoculars as standard procedure, then they certainly didnt use em in this instance in the video.

And of course one's eyeballs arent jacked into a direct video feed, but how the heck else are they supposed to identify and lock a target from a few miles away?

Yeah you're right actually I forgot about that. They aren't as close as they look. From what I've been reading from the military folks over at SA, though, they should be paying attention with more than just the screen.

[Scary Monster]

Yeah you're right actually I forgot about that. They aren't as close as they look. From what I've been reading from the military folks over at SA, though, they should be paying attention with more than just the screen.

What is SA? And what makes you say they should be paying attention with more than just the screen (besides what this video has shown)? ;P

[#FF0000]

What is SA? And what makes you say they should be paying attention with more than just the screen (besides what this video has shown)? ;P

SA = Something Awful. Was going through the Goons In Platoons subforum (all the military douches hang out there) and they were talking about how the pilots were idiots for not making sure there were no civilians nearby before launching off the hellfire missiles at the end of the unedited Collateral Murder video.

And the screen only shows you so much, depending on how much you zoom. At the end of the video, a guy walks right under a missile a second after they launch it, which could have been avoided by just looking.

At least that's what I'm hearing from people in the military.

[SouthernBelle82]

It is sick. Isn't that what it's all about though? Using the military to kill a country and steal their resources. :(

[SouthernBelle82]

Don't act surprised folks, we knew this shit was happening. Just be glad for evidence.

Isn't the whole occupation itself evidence?

[Drace]

Isn't the whole occupation itself evidence?

Yeah but to most, its OK if were there, as long as were fighting the Islam extremists, and spreading democracy.

[Bud Struggle]

Yeah but to most, its OK if were there, as long as were fighting the Islam extremists, and spreading democracy.

I don't see much mention of this (a little to be sure) in main stream media--and I so no outcry from the American populace.

It's for the most part, a "no big deal" affair.

[Comrade B]

From a couple blogs that were posted on the NY times by military people, the main criticism is that these guys were looking for a fight, not to keep peace.
Apparently it is not too difficult to misidentify the camera as a weapon, and there was at least one armed man there (the guy with a gun over his shoulder), but any person thinking rationally would have waited for a better ID before engaging the group. The helicopter is just looking for a fight.

I think possibly the most disturbing thing in this video is the reactions of the people on the helicopter, who seem to think this shit is funny, and show complete apathy towards having just shot children.