Thinking of moving to Cuba.

[Comrade Akai]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrkxS9y3psY

I'm sick of capitalism in Canada, so I'm thinking of moving to Cuba. Three things keep me from doing so:


I don't speak Spanish very well despite my heritage
I don't have the money for the plane trip
I don't want to leave my on-and-off SO behind unless she decides it's off for good
What do you guys think?

[RadioRaheem84]

Damn, and I was thinking about running off to Canada.

[Comrade Akai]

Damn, and I was thinking about running off to Canada.

It really isn't much better here, the only differences being that Canada has (limited) free health care and the government won't be biased against you for being gay.

[bricolage]

If you are sick of capitalism in Canada stick around and try to fight it, don't just run away.

[Comrade Akai]

If you are sick of capitalism in Canada stick around and try to fight it, don't just run away.

You have a point. However, I think revolution is not very feasible in Canada right now; the people are too politically apathetic and controlled by the state to support it.

[RadioRaheem84]

If you are sick of capitalism in Canada stick around and try to fight it, don't just run away.

I think there might be a point the future where Cuba might be a better place to live than the US or Canada considering the free wheeling gambling the banks are doing again. I'm even hearing bourgeoisie economists saying the next bubble will be the mother of all bubbles. Who wants to be around in a capitalist country for all that? Heck, who wants to be working class now in this recession? What time is there to donate to the cause when we're working most of the time and leftist movements are hideously underfunded and unmanned?

These are just some of the concerns I have about sticking it out but deep down I know that it's for the best that we continue pressing on, educating ourselves and others around us.

[The Ghost of Revolutions]

I think someone who lives in a captialist country would have a hard time adjusting to a place like cuba. But I would stay and fight!

[danyboy27]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrkxS9y3psY
What do you guys think?
2 words:
Bad Idea.

grass is always greener in your neighbor backyard.
You should stick around, talk to people and keep fighting, just like your other friend do.

[RadioRaheem84]

I think someone who lives in a captialist country would have a hard time adjusting to a place like cuba. But I would stay and fight!

Probably. The only redeeming thing about Cuba and it's lure is not having to fear about being homeless if you lose your job.

[bricolage]

You have a point. However, I think revolution is not very feasible in Canada right now; the people are too politically apathetic and controlled by the state to support it.

Revolution is not very feasible anywhere, things will only happen if people make them happen.

[Guerrilla22]

I'm sure they'd love to have you.

[Morgenstern]

So you want to move from capitalist Canada to capitalist Cuba? I recommend you spend some time vacationing there first, maybe a month or two and try to live the way the locals do. If you like their lifestyle then move there but just don't move there because it looks nice.

[Spawn of Stalin]

My advice would be to go there to study for maybe a year before making any life changing decisions. Or at least take part in a solidarity mission to the country. Don't just up and leave solely based on the cool stories you've heard about livin la vida loca in paradise, smoking big cigars and drinking rum all day, even people in socialist countries face very real challenges, especially when faced with crippling economic sanctions. I think you should at least learn to speak Spanish before considering a move. Cuba might just be one of the best places in the world to live, but think realistically, get your priorities straight, and then think some more.

[Robocommie]

My advice would be to go there to study for maybe a year before making any life changing decisions. Or at least take part in a solidarity mission to the country. Don't just up and leave solely based on the cool stories you've heard about livin la vida loca in paradise, smoking big cigars and drinking rum all day, even people in socialist countries face very real challenges, especially when faced with crippling economic sanctions. I think you should at least learn to speak Spanish before considering a move. Cuba might just be one of the best places in the world to live, but think realistically, get your priorities straight, and then think some more.

I completely agree. Learn what it's really like there first, spend a year or so doing whatever, before you make any permanent decisions.

Like motionless said, Cuba is a socialist country, but it's still struggling with poverty because of the economic sanctions it's had to deal with, as well as the problems it has faced with the fall of the Soviet Union. It won't be like living in Canada at all, for good and ill.

Visit first, get to know the people a little, learn Spanish (it's not that hard) and then make an informed decision.

[Demogorgon]

Before you make very rash decisions to do what seems like a romantic idea but is actually a very bad one, consider some of the practicalities, like how you are going to qualify for a permanent visa given your circumstances.

[brigadista]

on a practical point - are you used to humid v hot weather?

[Morgenstern]

Before you make very rash decisions to do what seems like a romantic idea but is actually a very bad one, consider some of the practicalities, like how you are going to qualify for a permanent visa given your circumstances.

I would think Cuba would welcome westerners with open arms.

[chegitz guevara]

on a practical point - are you used to humid v hot weather?

Heh, the comrade raises an excellent point. Comrade Akai, the summers down here are brutal, and then it really gets hot. We have no cold water for six months of the year, just hot and warm.

[anticap]

So you want to move from capitalist Canada to capitalist Cuba?

It's not so incredible: I'd rather live in capitalist Sweden than in capitalist Haiti, for example.


Don't just up and leave solely based on the cool stories you've heard about livin la vida loca in paradise, smoking big cigars and drinking rum all day, even people in socialist countries face very real challenges, especially when faced with crippling economic sanctions.


Like motionless said, Cuba is a socialist country, but it's still struggling with poverty because of the economic sanctions it's had to deal with, as well as the problems it has faced with the fall of the Soviet Union.

If I may ask: what definition of "socialist" are you two using?

[gorillafuck]

I would think Cuba would welcome westerners with open arms.
How are Cubans less westerners than people who live on the east coast in the USA?:confused:

[Morgenstern]

It's not so incredible: I'd rather live in capitalist Sweden than in capitalist Haiti, for example.

Seeing how other people are calling it socialist I just had to inject that because Cuba is not socialist. Running to a place that calls itself socialist is just as escapist as running to a commune.

[Robocommie]

If I may ask: what definition of "socialist" are you two using?

What are my options?

[FreeFocus]

You have a point. However, I think revolution is not very feasible in Canada right now; the people are too politically apathetic and controlled by the state to support it.

It doesn't appear that way to me, given the growing consciousness and militancy of First Nations and solidarity actions surrounding that. The labor movement is also more alive in Canada than it is in the US.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

When Raul took his brother's place, he put transition (including SRS, I believe) on the nationalized healthcare plan. So count me in! Warning: Cuban spanish is kinda strange! Jajaja!

[RadioRaheem84]

When Raul took his brother's place, he put transition (including SRS, I believe) on the nationalized healthcare plan. So count me in! Warning: Cuban spanish is kinda strange! Jajaja!

Really? Um, which way are you going? :blushing:

[Morgenstern]

How are Cubans less westerners than people who live on the east coast in the USA?:confused:

I use westerner with the definition of someone from the United States or Europe. I'm merely using the connotation of the term, not the denotation.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

really? Um, which way are you going? :blushing:

m2f

[anticap]

Seeing how other people are calling it socialist I just had to inject that because Cuba is not socialist. Running to a place that calls itself socialist is just as escapist as running to a commune.

I agree. Except that I support communes. But that's another thread.


What are my options?

They're as infinite as your vocabulary.

I'm not trying to be confrontational. I just want to know what "socialist Cuba" means to you, since to me it reads as gibberish. Clearly, we're operating under different definitions. I'm not looking to compare them and determine whose is "right" -- in fact I'm happy to drop it as soon as I understand you.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Go to Cuba for a holiday for the experience, then stay put and become an active force in the class struggles in your region.

[Comrade Akai]

My advice would be to go there to study for maybe a year before making any life changing decisions. Or at least take part in a solidarity mission to the country. Don't just up and leave solely based on the cool stories you've heard about livin la vida loca in paradise, smoking big cigars and drinking rum all day, even people in socialist countries face very real challenges, especially when faced with crippling economic sanctions. I think you should at least learn to speak Spanish before considering a move. Cuba might just be one of the best places in the world to live, but think realistically, get your priorities straight, and then think some more.

That sounds like a good idea, but how do I take part in a solidarity mission?


Go to Cuba for a holiday for the experience, then stay put and become an active force in the class struggles in your region.

Why is everyone here saying (implying in this case) that Cuba is so bad?

[RATM-Eubie]

Go to study then make up your mind.
Me personally no i would not go there for my life.
I would study but come back and keep fighting for a better world in my home country.

[Das war einmal]

Go to study then make up your mind.
Me personally no i would not go there for my life.
I would study but come back and keep fighting for a better world in my home country.


Please do tell me how do you think this has anything to do with solidarity

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

That sounds like a good idea, but how do I take part in a solidarity mission?



Why is everyone here saying (implying in this case) that Cuba is so bad?
I am not implying that Cuba is bad. In fact I could even consider moving there myself. I just think that emigrating to a desirable state purely to escape your own conditions is a cowardly approach to class struggle and revolutionary activity.

[Jacobinist]

Dont move to Cuba. I spent some time there not too long ago and I all I can say is that it's somewhat depressing. The people have no idea of living in a revolutionary state, they simply talk A LOT about how great it would be to be elsewhere, and questioned my mental stability for voluntarily living there.

On second thought, the people are nice, well educated and well spoken (the majority). You might even run into a few ardent communists, with whom talking to is a blast. The poverty is no worse than say Guadalajara Mexico, and going to see Havana's baseball team the Barbudos (on edit: what Cubans call the Guerreros for being Fide's fav. team) play (several times) was a memory I'll never forget. Avoid the touristy areas except at first, you have got to see La Habana Vieja. But after that, settle into the differring 'casa particulares' that serve food or drinks. Time goes by real slow there, I bullshit you not. The day felt like it had 36 hours in it, and I never could explain why.

Again, do visit, live though, its up to you.

[RadioRaheem84]

Wow, great post Jaconinist. Is there even a nightlife in Havana? What made it so depressing? The poverty might be similar to Guadalajara but I assume that there was still a sense of social security vs. none in Mexico.

[Robocommie]

They're as infinite as your vocabulary.

I'm not trying to be confrontational. I just want to know what "socialist Cuba" means to you, since to me it reads as gibberish. Clearly, we're operating under different definitions. I'm not looking to compare them and determine whose is "right" -- in fact I'm happy to drop it as soon as I understand you.

I suppose I would mean socialist in the sense of the Marxist-Leninist socialist transition state. I think Cuba is far from ideal, for one thing, I'm not really a die hard fan of state-owned economies as much as I am of syndicalism, but I think Cuba's managed some very impressive things with the resources it's had since the Revolution and I feel that Castro and the Communist Party of Cuba has been a positive influence.

[anticap]

Time goes by real slow there, I bullshit you not. The day felt like it had 36 hours in it, and I never could explain why.

Sounds like they've got at least one ingredient of paradise. I despise the artificially hectic pace of life under modern-day "advanced" capitalism. It's infuriating to be looked down upon for wanting to spend as little time as possible selling my labor power to capitalists (and it's even worse when alleged "leftists" begrudge me for this). Give me the opportunity to put in 4 hours of hard, meaningful work, which benefits my community, and all I ask in return is the necessities for a healthy life, nothing fancy, and the opportunity to spend the rest of the day with people I love. Capitalism affords me none of this; and there's not a single benefit of life under capitalism that I wouldn't trade for the life I want.

[Robocommie]

Sounds like they've got at least one ingredient of paradise. I despise the artificially hectic pace of life under modern-day "advanced" capitalism. It's infuriating to be looked down upon for wanting to spend as little time as possible selling my labor power to capitalists (and it's even worse when alleged "leftists" begrudge me for this). Give me the opportunity to put in 4 hours of hard, meaningful work, which benefits my community, and all I ask in return is the necessities for a healthy life, nothing fancy, and the opportunity to spend the rest of the day with people I love. Capitalism affords me none of this; and there's not a single benefit of life under capitalism that I wouldn't trade for the life I want.

I admire your priorities, sincerely. :thumbup1:

[anticap]

I suppose I would mean socialist in the sense of the Marxist-Leninist socialist transition state.

Thanks.


I think Cuba is far from ideal, for one thing, I'm not really a die hard fan of state-owned economies as much as I am of syndicalism, but I think Cuba's managed some very impressive things with the resources it's had since the Revolution and I feel that Castro and the Communist Party of Cuba has been a positive influence.

I agree with the above, I just don't feel that it's accurate to equate those progressive gains with socialism.


I admire your priorities, sincerely. :thumbup1:

Thanks again. :)

[Jacobinist]

Yea there are a few nightclubs, but they're mostly tourist traps. If you do ever do go to Cuba, only stay in Havana a few days, and stay in the country side the rest. Outside of Havana esp. Varadero, housing is super cheap and you virtually live in a beach paradise with no high rises, yachts or privatized land. The whole beach (and varadero is virtually all beach) is open to you, and beautiful.

Whats the security like and what's depressing you ask Radio? Well for starters people dont speak of politics, at least rarely. The younger generations speak of their elders as the 'real communists.' Many cubans beg for some of your petty possessions (deodarant, cologne, toothpaste), which to me is humbling. People speak of wishing they could leave Cuba, not to leave permanently, but simply travel abroad. The darker people in Cuba speak of inherent racism against them, and indeed, the Havana slum sure does have an African look to it. The women are great, beautiful and will show you a great time, even though its a against the law for a Cuban woman to romance a foreigner. There's little aspects, little details that will get to you in the long run. I personally think a lot can be blamed on the American embargo, but a lof of the problems have cuban roots.

And the security, in Mexico? Lolz. In the countryside you're more at ease. However in Havana, its purely a police state. Cubans boast they have 1 million inhabitants and 1.5 million police forces roaming Havana. I have to admit, being a part of an aid group with the University allowed me to live a privilleged life in Cuba, and I had a blast, But I could tell that most people were not happy.

I came across a female Cuban artist, who was with out a doubt an ardent ant-communist. We had a great debate, but I think she won. Anyways, simply put, go experience Cuba for yourself, oh , and dont be a wimp and stay on the high rises on the malecon and instead stay with real cuban families.

[Jacobinist]

Also, many Cubans know little of what real life is like else where, for example in El Salvador. Which keeps them from seeing their own system in a positive light.

[Raúl Duke]

Warning: Cuban spanish is kinda strange! Jajaja!

I find Cuban Spanish more familiar than other kinds (certain forms of Venezuelan, certain forms of Mexican, and Continential Spain, particularly anything north of Andalucia, Spanish)...but than again I'm from an island close by which in the past I think was referred to as "little sister" of Cuba.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I find Cuban Spanish more familiar than other kinds (certain forms of Venezuelan, certain forms of Mexican, and Continential Spain, particularly anything north of Andalucia, Spanish)...but than again I'm from an island close by which in the past I think was referred to as "little sister" of Cuba.

Puerto Rico?

I'm of Mexican blood, but I have a lot of Puerto Rican friends and I always tease them about their "freaky deaky Puerto Rican Spanish" but I was held by Lolita Lebron when I was an infant.

[RadioRaheem84]

Yea there are a few nightclubs, but they're mostly tourist traps. If you do ever do go to Cuba, only stay in Havana a few days, and stay in the country side the rest. Outside of Havana esp. Varadero, housing is super cheap and you virtually live in a beach paradise with no high rises, yachts or privatized land. The whole beach (and varadero is virtually all beach) is open to you, and beautiful.

Whats the security like and what's depressing you ask Radio? Well for starters people dont speak of politics, at least rarely. The younger generations speak of their elders as the 'real communists.' Many cubans beg for some of your petty possessions (deodarant, cologne, toothpaste), which to me is humbling. People speak of wishing they could leave Cuba, not to leave permanently, but simply travel abroad. The darker people in Cuba speak of inherent racism against them, and indeed, the Havana slum sure does have an African look to it. The women are great, beautiful and will show you a great time, even though its a against the law for a Cuban woman to romance a foreigner. There's little aspects, little details that will get to you in the long run. I personally think a lot can be blamed on the American embargo, but a lof of the problems have cuban roots.

And the security, in Mexico? Lolz. In the countryside you're more at ease. However in Havana, its purely a police state. Cubans boast they have 1 million inhabitants and 1.5 million police forces roaming Havana. I have to admit, being a part of an aid group with the University allowed me to live a privilleged life in Cuba, and I had a blast, But I could tell that most people were not happy.

I came across a female Cuban artist, who was with out a doubt an ardent ant-communist. We had a great debate, but I think she won. Anyways, simply put, go experience Cuba for yourself, oh , and dont be a pussy and stay on the high rises on the malecon and instead stay with real cuban families.


Well I figured Cubans would rightly complain about wanting more than the bare necessities. They probably watch international television and wish for some of the little stuff we take for granted here, where as I long for their free health care, free education and job security.

I've lost a lot of my taste for social mobility, material possessions and gain. I've wanted for so long for days to not feel like they only last for 8 hours but longer like you mentioned. I just want to work, read and help my community without the fear that I will be homeless if I miss a paycheck or break my leg. That type of security is worth more to me than luxury goods.

But I understand Cuba is no paradise and most people would probably find it weird that an American would leave the US for Cuba.

I still don't get what you saw though that made life there unbearable? Was it the lack of food? The bureaucracy? The lack of social mobility?

By poverty, was it actual no social security, fear of dying of hunger, El Salvador type of poverty? What was it?

[Raúl Duke]

Puerto Rico?

yep

[Comrade Akai]

I am not implying that Cuba is bad. In fact I could even consider moving there myself. I just think that emigrating to a desirable state purely to escape your own conditions is a cowardly approach to class struggle and revolutionary activity.

Screw it, you're right. I should try and help make my country a better place, not run to somewhere else.

[RedSonRising]

Yea there are a few nightclubs, but they're mostly tourist traps. If you do ever do go to Cuba, only stay in Havana a few days, and stay in the country side the rest. Outside of Havana esp. Varadero, housing is super cheap and you virtually live in a beach paradise with no high rises, yachts or privatized land. The whole beach (and varadero is virtually all beach) is open to you, and beautiful.

Whats the security like and what's depressing you ask Radio? Well for starters people dont speak of politics, at least rarely. The younger generations speak of their elders as the 'real communists.' Many cubans beg for some of your petty possessions (deodarant, cologne, toothpaste), which to me is humbling. People speak of wishing they could leave Cuba, not to leave permanently, but simply travel abroad. The darker people in Cuba speak of inherent racism against them, and indeed, the Havana slum sure does have an African look to it. The women are great, beautiful and will show you a great time, even though its a against the law for a Cuban woman to romance a foreigner. There's little aspects, little details that will get to you in the long run. I personally think a lot can be blamed on the American embargo, but a lof of the problems have cuban roots.

And the security, in Mexico? Lolz. In the countryside you're more at ease. However in Havana, its purely a police state. Cubans boast they have 1 million inhabitants and 1.5 million police forces roaming Havana. I have to admit, being a part of an aid group with the University allowed me to live a privilleged life in Cuba, and I had a blast, But I could tell that most people were not happy.

I came across a female Cuban artist, who was with out a doubt an ardent ant-communist. We had a great debate, but I think she won. Anyways, simply put, go experience Cuba for yourself, oh , and dont be a pussy and stay on the high rises on the malecon and instead stay with real cuban families.

Not to distract from the thread, but I'm curious about your characterization of Havana as a virtual police state. I could definitely sense dissatisfaction among Cubans due to factors stemming from both sides of the cuban-revolutionary and US-imperialist decision-makers, however the one thing I was impressed by was the lack of police presence in the city. I ventured outside simply the tourist squares and covered a pretty good area over a few days, and I only saw a very few police chillin benignly at the fronts of some important buildings or roadways. When did you go?

[Jacobinist]

" still don't get what you saw though that made life there unbearable? Was it the lack of food? The bureaucracy? The lack of social mobility?- Radio

I didn't say it was unbearable. The food, well at least the food the commoner ate was rather bland. The bureaucracy was scary, didn't mess with obvious foreigners wearing adidas shoes, but I frequently witnessed what in the US would amount to a lawsuit being committed by the authorities, sometimes in green army clothing; sometimes in civilian clothing. Social mobility, there's plenty of that in Cuba. And its not entirely egalitarian either.

I said it was depressing. Like I said, having people your age ask you for the simplest of items, and receiving them with such gratitude IS humbling. This is where I think people make the mistake in judging 'socialism.' Its not about lack of social mobility. Its not about lounging around all day, doing nothing. Its not about 'taxing' the rich. Communism isn't about every one being poor equally, its about progressing through cooperation and voluntary consensus. Through community and attempts at acheiving altruism. If you really start getting poetic about it, it would sound better than any gospel religious passage ever written. Cuba is flawed, but I see where it shines. The problem is, many Cubans cant see it.

To many cubans, anything the radio, the papers, the tv say is propaganda, and is simply dismissed. Even events like global warming or retreats in the imperialist wars in Iraq/Afghanistan are often thought to be lies. Fidel's reflections, in cuba, are probably not even read by about 70% of the people. I gurantee you that Fidel has more readers outside of Cuba, than within. (per capita)



"Not to distract from the thread, but I'm curious about your characterization of Havana as a virtual police state. I could definitely sense dissatisfaction among Cubans due to factors stemming from both sides of the cuban-revolutionary and US-imperialist decision-makers, however the one thing I was impressed by was the lack of police presence in the city. I ventured outside simply the tourist squares and covered a pretty good area over a few days, and I only saw a very few police chillin benignly at the fronts of some important buildings or roadways. When did you go? - REDSON

Outside of Havana yes. Not too bad. Within Havana, are you kidding? I went in spring of 07. In Havana, every corner store had 1-2 green fatigued troop, inside. Usually they'd be unarmed, but still doesn't distract from the obvious.

[Jacobinist]

"However in Havana, its purely a police state" - Me

I do see how that looks bad, and sounds even worse. But there isnt any other way to phrase it. Heavily guarded maybe? When did you go? Where did you stay at?

[Guerrilla22]

Not to distract from the thread, but I'm curious about your characterization of Havana as a virtual police state. I could definitely sense dissatisfaction among Cubans due to factors stemming from both sides of the cuban-revolutionary and US-imperialist decision-makers, however the one thing I was impressed by was the lack of police presence in the city. I ventured outside simply the tourist squares and covered a pretty good area over a few days, and I only saw a very few police chillin benignly at the fronts of some important buildings or roadways. When did you go?

Don't listen him, he's never been to Cuba, he likely is a kid who has never been outside of California making up fantastic stories about his travels to Cuba.

[Jacobinist]

Don't listen him, he's never been to Cuba, he likely is a kid who has never been outside of California making up fantastic stories about his travels to Cuba.

Lulz. YOUR JEALOUS!

http://www.youtube.com/user/raslikmuzik?feature=mhw5 (Scroll to the bottom of my uploads to view cuban videos)

http://s187.photobucket.com/home/rasmekpeace/index

I encourage all to view my videos. I've been to Cuba, Guatemala, and All over Mexico. I've volunteered with different aid groups, and with my university to achieve my goals of helping people. Unlike some armchair revolutionaries like 'Guerilla22." BTW I have Biology degree I've put to use both making a living and helping people out in a constructive manner, much like Che did!

Sorry Guerilla, I guess simply posting on Revleft doesnt count for helping.

Get a life, you're a pathetic. Nothing but personal attacks from the likes of these idiots.

[Guerrilla22]

Lulz. YOUR JEALOUS!

http://www.youtube.com/user/raslikmuzik?feature=mhw5

http://s187.photobucket.com/home/rasmekpeace/index

I encourage all to view my videos. I've been to Cuba, Guatemala, and All over Mexico. I've volunteered with different aid groups, and with my university to achieve my goals of helping people. Unlike some armchair revolutionaries like 'Guerilla22." BTW I have Biology degree I've put to use both making a living and helping people out in a constructive manner, much like Che did!

Sorry Guerilla, I guess simply posting on Revleft doesnt count for helping.

Get a life, you're a pathetic.

Yes because posting one random picture of a billboard is IRREFUTABLE proof you were there right? :laugh:


Unlike some armchair revolutionaries like 'Guerilla22.
:rolleyes: I always find it hilarious when someone on the internet tells someone else on the internet they're an "armchair revolutionary"



Sorry Guerilla, I guess simply posting on Revleft doesnt count for helping.

Get a life, you're a pathetic.[

No it doesn't, which is why if you were as really the great revolutionary you claim to be you wouldn't be spending all your time on revleft.

BTW learn the difference between your and you're.

[Jacobinist]

you're= you are. Did you know that?

One picture of a billboard? lolz. Im standing in front of the malecon FOR CRYING OUT FUCKING LOUD in one of the pics!!!!

You're hopelss. And also an armchair revolutionary. I've done my bit to better this shit hole of a world, even it's just a bit; while you obviously havent even begun to chip in.

And I've been on Revleft for less than 2 weeks, and already Im greatly disappointed. (spring break sucker).

You and your personal attacks are really lame. Get over it, I'm better than you.



*On edit: I added more pictures of places that are obviously Cuba, with me in them just to satisfy Guerilla, and make him look like the idiot he is.

[Comrade Akai]

Lulz. YOUR JEALOUS!

http://www.youtube.com/user/raslikmuzik?feature=mhw5

http://s187.photobucket.com/home/rasmekpeace/index

I encourage all to view my videos. I've been to Cuba, Guatemala, and All over Mexico. I've volunteered with different aid groups, and with my university to achieve my goals of helping people. Unlike some armchair revolutionaries like 'Guerilla22." BTW I have Biology degree I've put to use both making a living and helping people out in a constructive manner, much like Che did!

Sorry Guerilla, I guess simply posting on Revleft doesnt count for helping.

Get a life, you're a pathetic.

FATALITY

On a serious note, I've changed my mind. I'm not going anywhere, I'm going to take from comrade Jacobinist and do my part.

[Devrim]

On a serious note, I've changed my mind. I'm not going anywhere, I'm going to take from comrade Jacobinist and do my part.

This is probably very wise. This most realistic post in this thread is this one:


Before you make very rash decisions to do what seems like a romantic idea but is actually a very bad one, consider some of the practicalities, like how you are going to qualify for a permanent visa given your circumstances.

I have lived and worked in seven different countries. I also have three nationalities and a trade (I am a qualified brick-layer). It is not that easy. You can't just go and live where you want. There are lots of visa regulations, and it isn't easy. Notice that the guy on this thread who went there went on an organised programme:


I have to admit, being a part of an aid group with the University allowed me to live a privilleged life in Cuba...

I would image that life in Cuba is pretty hard as well.

Devrim

[Buffalo Souljah]

One possible compromise or alternative that is always available is the idea of going somewhere different, eg. Cuba, Venuzuela, Iran, India--somewhere where local groups are banding together and making a difference on a collective scale, and learn from the experiences drawn from that adventure and bring it back to the States. That was, in part, Che's and others' methods initially: watch and learn, and then bing what you've learned back home to make a meaningful difference, since there's no use just shooting into the blue here, if you don't know anything about party organizing, mass demonstrations, propaganda, etc. Learn from and participate in some ongoing revolutionary process and then take and learn from that experience. That's my advice. No one is forcing you to stay in America (or Canada, or wherever.)

[Guerrilla22]

FATALITY

On a serious note, I've changed my mind. I'm not going anywhere, I'm going to take from comrade Jacobinist and do my part.

By traveling around Latin America as a tourist like Jacobinist?

[khad]

The women are great, beautiful and will show you a great time, even though its a against the law for a Cuban woman to romance a foreigner. There's little aspects, little details that will get to you in the long run. I personally think a lot can be blamed on the American embargo, but a lof of the problems have cuban roots.

and dont be a pussy and stay on the high rises on the malecon and instead stay with real cuban families.
Infraction for prejudiced language. You sexpats are so typical.

[flobdob]

How about you join a brigade to Cuba sometime? It'll give you the opportunity to see and experience life and work in Cuba, and should give you a bit of an idea of what it's all about. I know that various Cuba solidarity campaigns hold them, and I imagine it should not be too difficult to find one; at the very least it should give you an opportunity to experience somewhere radically different.

[Chambered Word]

You have a point. However, I think revolution is not very feasible in Canada right now; the people are too politically apathetic and controlled by the state to support it.

If we all take this attitude, nothing will ever get done. I'm glad to see you're going to fight it out in your own country but hey, if you wanna go to Cuba, do it. It's not our business really.


Don't listen him, he's never been to Cuba, he likely is a kid who has never been outside of California making up fantastic stories about his travels to Cuba.

This is a truly pathetic response.

[Wanted Man]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrkxS9y3psY

I'm sick of capitalism in Canada, so I'm thinking of moving to Cuba. Three things keep me from doing so:


I don't speak Spanish very well despite my heritage
I don't have the money for the plane trip
I don't want to leave my on-and-off SO behind unless she decides it's off for good
What do you guys think?

Have you been there before? Why would you want to permanently move to a place that you've only read about?

I agree with the poster above. There are trips like that organised from Canada as well: http://www.canadiannetworkoncuba.ca/brigade/

[A.R.Amistad]

I think you'd be sadly dissapointed in Cuba, comrade. I'm a supporter of Cuba as a worker's state, but you'll be seen as old news to everyone there. They already have a communist/left wing regime in power, they breathe communist revolution everyday. Sure, there are many awesome comrades all over Cuba and Cuba is a beautiful country, with great culture, lands and people. But once you got settled in things would get boring really quickly. Also, I hear that the youth in Cuba today aren't all that revolutionary, and they are more individualistic and envious of typical Western luxuries. I think you'd get kind of bored in Cuba.

MightI make a suggestion though? Why not move to Greece for awhile? Greece is on the edge of a revolution as we speak. The Greek workers and youth are far from apathetic. There seems to be daily protests and riots. The irreconciliability of the proletariet and the bourgeoisie is more obvious than ever, and people are pissed. Sure it is currently a capitalist state, but I think it would be a lot more satisfying to leave the apathy of North America to go to a place where revolution is being forged and where I could actually have a part in the revolution. Maybe once you got settled with helping with the Greek comrades, you could bring back your revolutionary knowledge to the US and Canada and help us out here. This is an idea I've been turning over in my head

[Das war einmal]

"However in Havana, its purely a police state" - Me

I do see how that looks bad, and sounds even worse. But there isnt any other way to phrase it. Heavily guarded maybe? When did you go? Where did you stay at?

What bullshit is this. You clearly have no idea what a police state is. Havana is far from it. Yes there are policemen surveillance the streets but thats not what makes it a police state. London for example is much worse, hell even our country, the Netherlands, is more and more a police state. The GDR wished they would have advanced surveillance material that the secret service and the police has here.

You know what Havana is? A safe place. You can just walk the streets at night knowing you wont get robed or beaten or raped. Try that in Brasilia.

[Wanted Man]

I think you'd be sadly dissapointed in Cuba, comrade. I'm a supporter of Cuba as a worker's state, but you'll be seen as old news to everyone there. They already have a communist/left wing regime in power, they breathe communist revolution everyday. Sure, there are many awesome comrades all over Cuba and Cuba is a beautiful country, with great culture, lands and people. But once you got settled in things would get boring really quickly. Also, I hear that the youth in Cuba today aren't all that revolutionary, and they are more individualistic and envious of typical Western luxuries. I think you'd get kind of bored in Cuba.

MightI make a suggestion though? Why not move to Greece for awhile? Greece is on the edge of a revolution as we speak. The Greek workers and youth are far from apathetic. There seems to be daily protests and riots. The irreconciliability of the proletariet and the bourgeoisie is more obvious than ever, and people are pissed. Sure it is currently a capitalist state, but I think it would be a lot more satisfying to leave the apathy of North America to go to a place where revolution is being forged and where I could actually have a part in the revolution. Maybe once you got settled with helping with the Greek comrades, you could bring back your revolutionary knowledge to the US and Canada and help us out here. This is an idea I've been turning over in my head

You're talking about Greece as if October 1917 is in full swing over there. Perhaps a bit more realistic viewpoint is in order. There is a lot going on in Greece, but the next American travelling there is not going to be the new John Reed. Of course, if you end up there, it'd be well worth taking part in whatever happens at the time, but do try to keep some perspective.

As for Cuba, I've never been, but Jacobinist's story contrasts rather sharply with that of people I know who have been, either as tourists or with a solidarity brigade.

[Kléber]

You know what Havana is? A safe place.
It definitely was one of the safest cities in the world, but since 1992 a lot has changed. Didn't Castro set up a new branch of the police to protect European tourists a little while back.

[Das war einmal]

It definitely was one of the safest cities in the world, but since 1992 a lot has changed. Didn't Castro set up a new branch of the police to protect European tourists a little while back.

Actually I was talking about it from a tourist perspective. I'm sure it goes up for the common Cuban as well though

[RadioRaheem84]

What are the pros and cons about livng in Cuba? What's so boring about it?

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

What are the pros and cons about livng in Cuba? What's so boring about it?

I've already mentioned a very important pro (for me). Another one is that the coffee is really really great there.

[Jacobinist]

Infraction for prejudiced language. You sexpats are so typical.

What a sucker. Khad issues me an infraction for 'prejudiced language.' What are you talking about? I've seen Captain Cuba and Guerilla 22 verbally lambast people, and you've never issued them a infraction.

People like Khad are the ones that make Revleft look like a joke to the real left wing.

Get a life.

[Jacobinist]

Yet another example of the right wing attempt of suppressing and silencing what they dont like.

Freakin' trolls.

[Jacobinist]

It definitely was one of the safest cities in the world, but since 1992 a lot has changed. Didn't Castro set up a new branch of the police to protect European tourists a little while back.


And why if I may ask, WHY is Havana so safe? Because the Cuban people understand they are living in a revolutionary state and are in the middle of a struggle to the death against the US; and are therefore voluntarily behaving in an altruistic manner?

Fuck no, that aint it.

LOTS OF TROOPS/COPS policing Havana, thats why.

I personally find it ammusing that people WHOM HAVE NEVER BEEN TO HAVANA, will stand up and call a person who has been, a liar.

Verrry smart; and responsible.

[Nosotros]

You may aswell stay in Canada, unless you want to endure those lovely tornados/hurricanes.

[khad]

What a sucker. Khad issues me an infraction for 'prejudiced language.' What are you talking about? I've seen Captain Cuba and Guerilla 22 verbally lambast people, and you've never issued them a infraction.

People like Khad are the ones that make Revleft look like a joke to the real left wing.

Get a life.
If you can't get why talking about "women showing you a good time" or flippantly dropping "pussy" aren't sexist, then you have no business being on a leftist site.

And, that's another infraction for defending your sexism.

[Devrim]

And why if I may ask, WHY is Havana so safe? Because the Cuban people understand they are living in a revolutionary state and are in the middle of a struggle to the death against the US; and are therefore voluntarily behaving in an altruistic manner?

Fuck no, that aint it.

LOTS OF TROOPS/COPS policing Havana, thats why.

I wouldn't say that that isn't a part of it, but I imagine that there is more to it than that. I think that one of the things that typifies modern capitalism is its advanced state of social decomposition. In some ways this is more advanced in the West.

Crime is one of the results of this. Ten years ago you never heard of people getting burgled in Ankara (the capital of Turkey where I live). Nowadays unfortunately it is all to common. Still though we don't have street crime. I have never heard of anybody being mugged here, though people say it happens in İstanbul. I think in many ways this is a result of the decomposition of traditional family life, which although not necessarily being a good thing in itself, without anything to replace it has resulted in increasing atomisation of individuals, and an increase in streey crime and these sort of things.

I would imagine that one of the reasons that there is less street crime in Cuba is that the family still supplies a somewhat stabilising influence.

Devrim

[Jacobinist]

If you can't get why talking about "women showing you a good time" or flippantly dropping "pussy" aren't sexist, then you have no business being on a leftist site.

And, that's another infraction for defending your sexism.


Yeah, well whatever.

You're trying to suppress me, so go ahead.

Talking about showing you a good time is wrong? Doesnt even mention anything about sex, or blow that/this, yet its sexist. Going to a museum is a good time too, too bad you're brain is too small to understand such advanced notions of fun.

You call this a leftist site? Puhlease.

Like I said, Ive seen Stalinist trolls like yourself tell people to go fuck their mothers, but that doesnt warrant an infraction. So have it your way, lord of the dimwitted.

http://rawedgestudio.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fuck-you.jpg

[Devrim]

You're talking about Greece as if October 1917 is in full swing over there. Perhaps a bit more realistic viewpoint is in order. There is a lot going on in Greece, but the next American travelling there is not going to be the new John Reed. Of course, if you end up there, it'd be well worth taking part in whatever happens at the time, but do try to keep some perspective.

This is very true.


As for Cuba, I've never been, but Jacobinist's story contrasts rather sharply with that of people I know who have been, either as tourists or with a solidarity brigade.

I have known three people in my time who have been to Cuba. They all went very enthusiastic, and all came back very shocked and disillusioned. Dave Douglas, the English NUM official used to tell a funny story about it.

Devrim

[Devrim]

If you can't get why talking about "women showing you a good time" or flippantly dropping "pussy" aren't sexist, then you have no business being on a leftist site.

And, that's another infraction for defending your sexism.

Get a grip. They are both very common phrases. Not everybody shares your language police viewpoint.

Devrim

[Sentinel]

Talking about showing you a good time is wrong? Doesnt even mention anything about sex, or blow that/this, yet its sexist. Going to a museum is a good time too, too bad you're brain is too small to understand such advanced notions of fun.

Actually, anyone who isn't stupid will understand precisely what you meant with your comment. Anyone with an IQ larger than their shoe size, I'd say.

Moreover, spamming the board by posting inflamatory pictures as a response to receiving an infraction from a moderator is a certain way to acquire more. I'm issuing you yet another one, and using this opportunity to remind you of the consequence of acquiring enough: suspension of posting abilities.


Not everybody shares your language police viewpoint.

Perhaps not, but we have rules against this kind of thing. The infraction was warranted.

[Devrim]

Perhaps not, but we have rules against this kind of thing. The infraction was warranted.

Do we have a rule against the phrase "women showing you a good time" now?

Can you post a link to it, please?

Devrim

[Alaric]

Sounds like they've got at least one ingredient of paradise. I despise the artificially hectic pace of life under modern-day "advanced" capitalism. It's infuriating to be looked down upon for wanting to spend as little time as possible selling my labor power to capitalists (and it's even worse when alleged "leftists" begrudge me for this). Give me the opportunity to put in 4 hours of hard, meaningful work, which benefits my community, and all I ask in return is the necessities for a healthy life, nothing fancy, and the opportunity to spend the rest of the day with people I love. Capitalism affords me none of this; and there's not a single benefit of life under capitalism that I wouldn't trade for the life I want.

Quoted for brilliance.

[Wanted Man]

I have known three people in my time who have been to Cuba. They all went very enthusiastic, and all came back very shocked and disillusioned. Dave Douglas, the English NUM official used to tell a funny story about it.

What's the story? :)

I can imagine that this is the case for people who see Cuba as some kind of communist "paradise", and are seriously contemplating taking up permanent residence there or whatever. We obviously have different opinions on the nature of Cuba altogether, but in any case, solidarity should not be confused with idolisation.

[Spawn of Stalin]

That sounds like a good idea, but how do I take part in a solidarity mission?

Get in touch with a Cuba solidarity campaign, in Britain we have two, the CSC, and Rock Around the Blockade, both run annual brigades to Cuba. It's no vacation, and generally for one week you will live like a Cuban, in a Cuban house with a Cuban family, you will work in Cuban factories and on Cuban farms, and for the other week you take part in political discussions, presentations, etc. All relevant to contemporary Cuban politics, you'll learn a lot, and it's fun if you like that sort of thing.

[Wanted Man]

That sounds like a good idea, but how do I take part in a solidarity mission?

I googled it just for you: http://www.canadiannetworkoncuba.ca/brigade/ (I might have posted this before, if so, excuse me)

Anyway, you said that you couldn't afford the trip, and apparently, the one for this year is just closing up, so that's something to save up for. :p If it's anything similar to the trips that are organised here, that some people I know have gone on, I would recommend it.

[Davie zepeda]

I'm sorry comrades but to those who are fucking critizing cuba come on ! man, it's one thing to be idealistic, but your a fucking marxist deal with the reality of building socalism not, Oh it has to be this or that and what not, cuba is soverign,free,the people have what they need, the government is doing it's job bro unlike in my country like elsalvador where gangs and holigans control the country. I will say that cuba needs to be freed from the blockade and then we can see real imporvements until then i will not be a counter reveloutionary and add fuel to the flame, cuba is in transition and we must defend her till the blockade is gone, once this happenes we can truly go and help build socalism and be critical, until then the conditions calls for what is going on now! Gezzzz

[Jacobinist]

The embargo, which at one point included the majority of the world except Mexico, Russia, and a few African nations, has played a big part in Cuba's development. But, very few countries currently enforce the embargo.

As a matter fact, the last time the UN condemed the embargo, I think the US and Israel were the only ones who voted in favor of it. This is a good sign for Cuba's party, but a better sign for the Cuban populace.

[Wanted Man]

It's not a UN embargo, but a US embargo, so the rest of the world can jump high and low denouncing it, but it won't make a difference. :(

[Jacobinist]

Agreed, but most countries dont enforce the embargo anymore. I think, Canada was the first one to break off at some point in the 70's and started trading with Cuba.

What Im saying is that, the US/Israel (amerikkka's lap dog) are isolated in supporting the inhumane embargo that is meant to put pressure and squeeze the Cuban proletariat, not the government brass.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

I have known three people in my time who have been to Cuba. They all went very enthusiastic, and all came back very shocked and disillusioned. Dave Douglas, the English NUM official used to tell a funny story about it.

Devrim

What were they shocked about, I need some ammunition to argue with a friend who has read Castro's autobiography and claims everything said about Cuba is a lie.

[Jacobinist]

Its no workers' paradise. Not that I was naive to believe that, but get this, the saddest part of going to Cuba was the Cuban populace's overall apathy and general low self esteem of their 'revolutionary' government.

[bricolage]

What were they shocked about, I need some ammunition to argue with a friend who has read Castro's autobiography and claims everything said about Cuba is a lie.

There are things to be shocked about, the two times I have been I was both times asked if I had any guitar strings, while on this own this seems like a small thing it's still quite interesting. In the cities (especially Havana) you don't see much abject poverty but that's because it is cleaned up so the places can be packaged as tourist hot spots, you get areas of Havana (and beach resorts in the country) where Cubans cannot step foot but tourists (and wealthy Cubans, high up party members) are welcome with open arms. In the countryside there are a lot of people living in very bad conditions but less tourists go there so it is less well known. The police are very good at cracking down on Cubans interacting with non-Cubans (I assume as they think they are going to rob them thus lose them valuable foreign money, even though the embargo means they are reliant on this as a source of income it's still a very bad way to treat the people who live there) and in general a lot of well off buildings/places are heavily guarded and closed off to ordinary Cubans. I don't think this is exceptional, many places in the world function like this but it is interesting it happening in a country so many people applaud. At the same time though literacy/health service rates as well as child malnutrition rates speak for themselves and all of this comes from my position as a privileged Westerner, so although I might have stayed with Cubans etc I can never understand their lives. That being said it is a very beautiful country and a very nice place to visit.

[bricolage]

Its no workers' paradise. Not that I was naive to believe that, but get this, the saddest part of going to Cuba was the Cuban populace's overall apathy and general low self esteem of their 'revolutionary' government.
Yes I'd say this too. I expected a lot more people to be enthusiastic about the government and communist party.

I'm not sure why there is a winking face above this post.

[Chimurenga.]

What were they shocked about, I need some ammunition to argue with a friend who has read Castro's autobiography and claims everything said about Cuba is a lie.

A lot of things said about Cuba ARE lies. They have problems just like any country who tries socialism when they are surrounded by majority Capitalist nations.

[Davie zepeda]

i admire you but, most of my comrades have gone to cuba and yes people are poor but not unhappy most enjoy life to the fullest, for 1 i talked with a girl from cuba and her father is from the government she goes to school here, and she is preetty depressed here comrades they bash her everyday and she gets falied because she is cuban and pro fidel so wtf man Fuck the lies there just trying to betray the revolution i will never betray them fuck that i am not a guasno!

[R_P_A_S]

odd are you are probably very young. give your self some time. I'm almost certain you will be disappointed in Cuba. At the end of the day they are a 3rd world country and I doubt you will enjoy that.

[gorillafuck]

You sexpats are so typical.
Oh please. It's not like he went to Cuba for the purpose of sex or for prostitutes.

And if you're really intent on traveling somewhere for revolutionary purposes, I'll agree with whoever said Greece. It's not a revolution going on or anything but I'm sure it would be interesting since there are very real developments going on there which would be interesting to see firsthand. Some leftists seem to think that Cuba is some sort of country where everyone is thinking about revolution everyday. It's ridiculous.

[Devrim]

What's the story? :)

Basically Douglas went to Cuba on a 'work brigade'. They were at some work-site where the volunteers were queueing up to be allocated work. They were standing in line, being asked whether they were students or workers, and given appropriate jobs. Douglas noticed that whilst the students were being given very light work, people who said 'worker' were being given very heavy work, basically enough work to make up for the fact that the students were doing nearly sweet F.A. Douglas decided to tell them he was a student, at which point the official asked to see his hands, told him he was a liar, and allocated him some real work.


What were they shocked about, I need some ammunition to argue with a friend who has read Castro's autobiography and claims everything said about Cuba is a lie.

I don't think that there was anything particular you could use. I remember one being shocked by discovering that doctors were moonlighting as taxi drivers at night. They were the sort of liberal leftists who had illusions in Cuba, and were quite shocked when they saw what it was like. One of them was actually Spanish, but living in England, and went on a Progress Tours trip. She said that the Cuban officials were really freaked out that there was a Spanish speaker there, who could talk to people directly, and really tried to monitor who she could meet.

Devrim

[black magick hustla]

I don't think Cuba is terrible compared to other capitalist countries. Its probably better than being an average Latin America (barring probably Mexico, Chile, and Brazil). It does not bar it from being a capitalist country though.

[bricolage]

I don't think Cuba is terrible compared to other capitalist countries.Very true. Especially in regards to other countries in the Caribbean, however Cubans don't look to Antigua or the Dominican Republic as a comparison, rather to the Cubans living in Miami. I think a lot of the way the tend to see their own lives is related to this.


Its probably better than being an average Latin America (barring probably Mexico, Chile, and Brazil).I'm not sure there are vast numbers of Brazilians living in far worse conditions than many Cubans, maybe even the same for Mexico? Don't know much about Chile.


It does not bar it from being a capitalist country though.Very true also. Something we should not forget.