stephen fry debates that the catholic church is a force of evil

[Sasha]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEhtOhwL8xk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH0safHyhPo

[Invincible Summer]

I know that in some countries (Germany in particular), one has to actually officially renounce their affiliation with the catholic church by doing paperwork and such.

How does the church get away with bureaucratized institutional shit like that, esp in this day and age?

[Timebomb]

A force for evil don't mean evil,i think they have done evil and then covered it up.
The catholic church helps more people than it harms and one of the few religious groups i respect.

[Dr Mindbender]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JkY7G8sTy8

[Morgenstern]

As someone raised Catholic (but I no longer believe) I believe the Church is a very reactionary organization. I don't care if they are workers of the anti-Christ, I do care that they resist communist movements. I don't refer to John Paul II and his anti-Sovietism stuff. I refer to the fact that if a communist revolution was held today they would denounce it because of subjects such as abortion. I will never forgive nor forget when my parish's priest went up on a pulpit and for the homily preached about death panels in the healthcare bill. The church is like Fox News, a source of superstitions and lies.

[Sasha]

I know that in some countries (Germany in particular), one has to actually officially renounce their affiliation with the catholic church by doing paperwork and such.

How does the church get away with bureaucratized institutional shit like that, esp in this day and age?

here churches are notified when you move and are given your new adres, so much for the seperation of church and state.

[SpineyNorman]

I think it's overly simplistic to suggest that the Catholic Church is either good or evil. The upper levels of the Church hierarchy, in particular the pope, are undeniably reactionary. The coverup of child abuse is utterly unforgivable. However, there are Catholic priests, particularly in South America, who risk their lives every day fighting injustice. These men follow the catholicism I was brought up with and whilst I no longer believe any of the dogma they follow I have a huge amount of respect for them.

[Sasha]

i think that also what Fry agues (the title i gave to the topic is a bit misleading, fry isnt debating the question wheter or not the church is an force of evil, he is debating wheter or not the church is an force of good) he doesnt say catholisism/religion/individual beleivers or clergy is evil, he debates that the church as an institute is not an force of good in the world.

[SpineyNorman]

Yes, having actually taken the time to watch the video I agree with just about everything he says. That'll teach me to jump to conclusions.

[Tread Softly]

A force for evil don't mean evil,i think they have done evil and then covered it up.
The catholic church helps more people than it harms and one of the few religious groups i respect.

Some white imperialist arrogant kill-joys were telling us Africans we needed to wear condoms to avoid our communities dying by the millions, fancy the cheek of it! But then these lovely clergy set us on the right path.

[Dimentio]

Some white imperialist arrogant kill-joys were telling us Africans we needed to wear condoms to avoid our communities dying by the millions, fancy the cheek of it! But then these lovely clergy set us on the right path.

Please, no racism.

[Sentinel]

As long as people keep pondering upon whether the churches are 'evil', or 'good' -- whether anything is -- they're still more or less in the grip of them and other like them. We need to quit thinking in abstract, moral terms such as those and calmly evaluate the material pros and cons -- the facts.

In the case of the catholic church the fact is, of course, that they are a reactionary organisation and opposed to our vision for the future of our class. Whether they are motivated by altruistic or sinister motives is fully irrelevant in the big picture.

Yes, there are south american priests who are socialists. These people who choose to compromise their faith to progress society -- christianity is all about submission to authority -- are no doubt good allies for the workers in the struggle against the capitalist oppressor.

At this stage, that is. But what about their views on the post-revolutionary society? Most definitely diametrically opposed to mine, for sure -- I envision a world where every human being would be able to observe the world and it's phenomena, and their own lives, on an equal, rational basis and thus fully be capable of controlling taking control over their destiny.

Sooner or later religion must go, totally, if that is ever to happen. I'd prefer sooner.