Opinions on US presidents of the "Progressive" Era

[Qayin]

I want leftist opinions of the following presidents

-Taft
-Teddy
-FDR
-Wilson

In a sense on there successes and what they lacked. I don't want
quick responses just calling them bourgeois imperialists and so forth but
well thought out marxist critiques.

Thanks.

[mikelepore]

An interesting thing about FDR was his awareness that some reform is a conservative strategy. The capitalists had to be willing to grant some reforms to avoid losing their whole system.

"Wise and prudent men -- intelligent conservatives -- have long known that in a changing world worthy institutions can be conserved only by adjusting them to the changing time. In the words of the great essayist, 'The voice of great events is proclaiming to us: reform if you would preserve.' I am that kind of conservative because I am that kind of liberal." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt, speech at the Democratic Party state convention in Syracuse, New York on Sept. 29, 1936

The "great essayist" that he paraphrases there was actually a 19th century member in the British parliament: "Turn where we may, within, around, the voice of great events is proclaiming to us: reform, that you may preserve." -- Thomas Babington Macaulay, speech before the House of Commons, March 1, 1831

[Qayin]

What do you think of the New Deal,the second New Deal,and the Second Bill of Rights? You dont think that makes FDR a social-democrat at all?

[binary01]

Calling Wilson a progressive is an Orwellian statement. Wilsonian "idealism" almost completely destroyed Haiti with a brutal occupation from 1915-34. In a nutshell, The U.S's "agri-business" wanted a new place to export food. Haitian farmers were pretty efficient but they couldn't hope to compete with the production capacity of the U.S. Wilson had the Haitian parliaments dissolved at gunpoint in order to open up a new market. Quoting from global security.org, "Representatives from the United States wielded veto power over all governmental decisions in Haiti, and Marine Corps commanders served as administrators in the provinces. Local institutions, however, continued to be run by Haitians...". This was put to a vote among the Haitians in order to determine if the U.S should occupy the country. The results were about 98% in favor...and that was the 4-5% of the population that was allowed to vote. Then by this time, Haiti had lost the capacity to feed itself, making it very sensitive to food price fluctuations even now. It is now ranked as the number one poorest country in the world. That is Wilsonian progressivism for you.

[Qayin]

Wilson was a *****.
Federal Reserve banker fuck along with his making dissent illegal.

[RadioRaheem84]

Wilson was a *****.
Federal Reserve banker fuck along with his making dissent illegal.

Federal Reserve boogeyman is a myth. Wilson lamented it's creation anyways. Don't believe the Fed hype.

What a "progressive" Wilson was when he proclaimed the racist movie Birth of a Nation to be an outstanding cinematic achievement.

Wilsonian Idealism was the equivalent to Neo-Conservatism today.

FDR was a showboat wannabe Social Democrat. Sincere in some way and cunning in other ways. He is still in my eyes the best President in US history and that's not saying much. I believe there was instance in which he supported some worker friendly measure to steal thunder from populist politician Huey Long. I mean FDR was a capitalist reformer. He wanted to reform the system to save capitalism and if that meant giving some concessions to workers then so be it.

Although the speech he made shortly before he died (you know that one that NEVER saw the light of day until about a year ago) about economic freedom, makes me wonder if he finally saw the light before he died?

Teddy Roosevelt was a rough riding fool. His Square Deal Program was instigated to break up monopolies and crush the growing worker militancy.

[chegitz guevara]

I prefer Abe Lincoln.

[RadioRaheem84]

I prefer Abe Lincoln.
:thumbup1:

[syndicat]

His Square Deal Program was instigated to break up monopolies

that's a myth about TR. the Taft administration actually did more antitrust actions than Roosevelt. TR was also a rank elitist, in league with the banksters just like presidents today, and an imperialist...a major backer of the Spanish American war and its expansion of US empire.

FDR was not a social democrat. He was forced to move to the left after 1934 due to the massive working class rebellion of the 1934-37 period. these were simply concessions forced on him. during WW2 he gave virtual control of the war effort to big corps who racked up huge profits.

"Progressivism" was a movement of the business elite, mobilizing middle class support, for a program of using the state to bolster big corporations and to prevent more radical proposals of the sort championed by the socialists, by using government regulatory bodies, which typically have ended up being captured or controlled or undermined by business.

[Jacobinist]

I honestly can't name one US president I can admire, and or evaluate without finding some major fault in his ideology/self. I hate to say this, but the Prez. with the best background is that bi-partisan wimp in the White House right now, and thats pathetic.

About FDR, what Syndicat said, most definitely true. FDR's new deal was nothing more than an attempt to quell the fury of the masses. In a way it was a compromise between the petty bourgeois and the kapitalists to avoid utter proletarian rebellion due from discontent and anger.

And as I've always said, the State/kapitalism are hinged at the hip.

[Qayin]

Federal Reserve boogeyman is a myth. Wilson lamented it's creation anyways. Don't believe the Fed hype. Okay? Lets just ignore its power then shall we?

Jacobinist (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=28305) you did exactly what I said not to in my OP.


I prefer Abe Lincoln.
Why?



Wilsonian Idealism was the equivalent to Neo-Conservatism today.
I could see his spreading liberal democracy rhetoric similar to Neo-Conservatism at the most,care to elaborate?

[Jacobinist]

Ooops, My bad. I didnt think you had instructions.

Sorry, allow me to correct?

I think I did FDR somewhat up above.

Moving on to TR and Taft. TR was an outspoken Prez and had charisma. He was loud and trumpeted the things he did. Taft was more reserved, and on the other hand enforced the laws already on the books, and in some instances, broke up companies that TR had allowed to survive. In this regards, Taft was no friend of business and thus served only one term.

TR was an Imperialist. He was 'rough rider' in Cuba during Spanish-American War and supported the aquistion of colonies and formation of an American Empire. TR also amended the monroe doctrine that allowed any US pres to send troops any where in Mexico/Central America to protect American 'interests.' Again, imperialism. Taft however implemented the policy as well.

That conspiratoid BS about Wilson selling out the country to the 'powerful' is bullshit. Think about it. This country was founded by an elite white establishment that included bankers, land-owners, rich farmers etc. Nearly 240 years after the founding, its still being run by the all the above. Nothing changed, the US has always been a beacon of kapitalism and greed. Also, Wilson won his election trumpeting a more conservative ticket, something that some argue he was not. Wilson also sent troops/money to combat in the Russian civil war on behalf of the Whites. He also sent troops into Mexico to interefere and establish a puppet military government in Mexico that was quickly overthrown by the chaos that was Revolutionary Mexico. He also enacted the Alien-Sedition acts that made and began the first Red Scare too.

Again, the progressive era was progressive ONLY BY American standards.

[mikelepore]

Wilson ............ making dissent illegal.

You're right, during World War I, the penalty for publicly saying something like "I believe the U.S. shouldn't be involved in this war" was ten years in a federal prison.

[RadioRaheem84]

that's a myth about TR. the Taft administration actually did more antitrust actions than Roosevelt. TR was also a rank elitist, in league with the banksters just like presidents today, and an imperialist...a major backer of the Spanish American war and its expansion of US empire.

FDR was not a social democrat. He was forced to move to the left after 1934 due to the massive working class rebellion of the 1934-37 period. these were simply concessions forced on him. during WW2 he gave virtual control of the war effort to big corps who racked up huge profits.

"Progressivism" was a movement of the business elite, mobilizing middle class support, for a program of using the state to bolster big corporations and to prevent more radical proposals of the sort championed by the socialists, by using government regulatory bodies, which typically have ended up being captured or controlled or undermined by business.


No counter arguments here.

Why are these progressives always lumped in with the left anyways? A lot of them were elitist reformers who wanted the bourgeoisie to curb worker unrest. The progressives today are much more influenced by the New Left than the ridiculous early progressive movement. Progressivism was culminated in the economic theory of Keynes.

[RadioRaheem84]

Okay? Lets just ignore its power then shall we?

Jacobinist (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../../member.php?u=28305) you did exactly what I said not to in my OP.

http://kapitalism101.wordpress.com/the-federal-reserve-is-going-to-eat-you-or-is-it/



I could see his spreading liberal democracy rhetoric similar to Neo-Conservatism at the most,care to elaborate?

This is what I meant. Read about the Project for a New American Century.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Teddy Roosevelt is really were you can say that American Imperialism began. Yes, the Mexican-American war had come decades before, but the path that TR put the nation on is seen by many as leading directly to American dominance in many areas. Not only the Spanish American war, but the creation of a massive fleet in and of itself allowed America to reach far beyond its shores, culminating at the end of WWII with control not only of the west hemishpehere, but of both sides of both oceans the US touches, and mucch more. Alfredd Mahans The influence of sea power on the world (or something like that) was very popular at the time, according to some sources it influenced the Kaiser enough for him to challenge Britains dominance of the sea. But of course it was the US that benefited from that.

Lincoln was the most progressive president we've had, but again, that's not saying much.

Of the progressive era, Eugene Debs is by far my favorite politician.

[Left-Reasoning]

They were reactionaries that co-opted leftist sympathies.

[The Ghost of Revolutions]

Wilson was a rascist who segregated the US federal ogvernment. He sent the US military to several latin american countries to protect US economic interests. And got the US into world war I and used the war as an excuse to lock up dissenters. Not someone I would look up to. He did support womesn suffrage and did pass laws (though only to appese unions) that gave a little help to workers. So I will give him credit for those good things.

[Ismail]

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/rise_of_american_fascism.htm

A good read. It shows that FDR's policies were inspired by Fascism, even though he himself was not a Fascist. The point of the New Deal was to improve inter-class collaboration and to reduce class conflict via the state working with corporations and labor unions, etc. which was also the goal of Fascism. The US Government at the time supported Italy and (to an extent) Nazi Germany due to their anti-communism.

Also, a revealing quote concerning a British Prime Minister that applies to all bourgeois leaders of the Lloyd George-FDR type:

"Yet it had always been Lloyd George's view that 'the way to prevent the spread of the revolutionary spirit was to embark at once on large schemes of social progress.'"
(David Fromkin. A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East. New York: 2009. Holt Paperbacks. p. 388.)

I agree with others who say that the most progressive US President was Abraham Lincoln. Marx recognized it (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1864/lincoln-letter.htm), and there are few things one can say a US President did that would be higher in historical notoriety than destroying what was essentially a relic of feudalism.

[Red Commissar]

Important thing to remember about progressives is that they were still faithful that capitalism was ultimately the answer. They just felt that some government regulation and what not could help to alleviate the income disparities and make society more "fair".

Teddy is the first in line of the 20th century progressive tradition. He had envisioned greater power to small-size and medium business other than the large ones which were forming the so-called trusts. However he was still committed to principles of capitalism in regards to competition, he was just weary of power being too heavily concentrated in a small group of businesses. Taft continued this to some extent and practiced trust-busting as far as it was practicable. Teddy even had a plan for a national healthcare system in his Progressive Party Platform in the 1912 elections.

Though teddy had some issues. For one thing he was very, very pro-war/jingoisitic and heavily nationalistic (for one thing, he hated people that he called "hyphenated Americans"). Combined with his petit-bourgeoisie standards of how businesses should work, he was ultimately what we could see as pro-statist.

Socialists had to long deal with accusations of FDR being a socialist. Like Ismail mentioned the main reason why FDR had ultimately taken the steps in the New Deal was to prevent too many gains for Marxist groups and other socialist persuasions from gaining too much popularity. In the scheme of things, socialist groups at the time had goals they promised on their platforms that by our standards would be accepted by most groups. Typically these were,

-Minimum wage
-Workplace safety standards
-Banning child labor
-Various public programs
-Progressive taxation

Among other things. Many progressive groups in Western Societies put in place minimum wage, various regulations, more public programs, and what not in order to rob communists and socialist groups of a powerful rallying tool they had at the time. Progressives were part of this movement. FDR's New Deal was done to restore faith in Capitalism, something to clear out the bad and let it restart, to prevent class awareness from getting to the point of an atmosphere fit for revolution.

While I know Norman Thomas is a reformist, he had this much to say on accusations of FDR and his New Deal being socialist. Unfortunately Thomas has also been the source of a quote that never existed that is popular among wingnuts:

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."

There has never been any source for this statement. Thomas however said this- again he was a reformist but it is at least telling,


Attempts of Al Smith, in his Liberty League banquet speech, to read Roosevelt and the New Deal into the Socialist fold were emphatically rejected by Norman Thomas, Socialist leader, in a broadcast over the Columbia network.

Thomas said Roosevelt has not “carried out most of the demands of the Socialist platform—unless he carried them out on a stretcher.”

“There is nothing Socialist about trying to regulate or reform Wall Street,” Thomas said. “Socialism wants to abolish the system of which Wall Street is an appropriate expression.”

“There is nothing Socialist about trying to break up great holding companies. We Socialists would prefer to acquire holding companies in order to socialize the utilities now subject to them.

“There is no Socialism at all about taking over all the banks which fell in Uncle Sam’s lap, putting them on their feet again, and turning them back to the bankers to see if they can bring them once more to ruin.”

On a side note, a letter from Upton Sinclair wrote to Thomas,

"The American People will take Socialism, but they won't take the label. I certainly proved it in the case of EPIC. Running on the Socialist ticket I got 60,000 votes, and running on the slogan to 'End Poverty in California' I got 879,000. I think we simply have to recognize the fact that our enemies have succeeded in spreading the Big Lie. There is no use attacking it by a front attack, it is much better to out-flank them. Letter to Norman Thomas (25 September 1951)"

Wilson on the other hand I'm trying to find exactly what made him considered to be a progressive. He did not take much action against big business but was more concerned about social standards it seems. If anything Wilson was probably the biggest racist we had in the White House.