ok be nice here

[heylelshalem]

im new to socialism..as far as my political beliefs go i think that i am socialist but i still believe in trade..i don't believe in corporate capitalism like we have in the states though..but i also don't believe in "managed" buisnesses...more like buisness collectives..like they had in "argentina"?? I have a few books by lenin, a marx/ engels reader and some other psuedo socialist stuff, not sure if abby hoffman counts...well ok to the question at hand here..i'm having difficulty in finding my political label here..and i am trying to figure out where to start in my political studies. Philisophically i am existentialist and spiritually i am a atheistic buddhist..but this is coming from a person who is a reformed facist..was a member of an american neo-nazi group for a period of time before I discovered the err of my ways and dropped out..not after becoming a fairly higher ranking member in the group :(

I guess what the real question is once one identifys himself as leftist, what would be the best way about going developing ones own personal philosophy on the matter..i hardly like to blindly accept anything these days but i definately vibe well with a lot i've read as far as socialist or leftist thoughts...

[Jacobinist]

Read Marx. And then Baukinin. And then Kropotkin.

Read about the French Revolution, 1917 Russian revolution, 1936 Spanish Revolution and ultimately 1959 Cuban revolution.

Read these things in that order for starters.

[Invincible Summer]

im new to socialism..as far as my political beliefs go i think that i am socialist but i still believe in trade..i don't believe in corporate capitalism like we have in the states though..but i also don't believe in "managed" buisnesses...more like buisness collectives..like they had in "argentina"?? I have a few books by lenin, a marx/ engels reader and some other psuedo socialist stuff, not sure if abby hoffman counts...well ok to the question at hand here..i'm having difficulty in finding my political label here..and i am trying to figure out where to start in my political studies.
Honestly, don't worry too much about labels. They're okay at showing people where you stand on things, but don't let them make you feel like you're pinned to them.

I'm learning that right now. Tendency rigidity is really something that causes problems, imho.

But to learn, all you have to do is read, really. Read anarchist works, Marxist-Leninst works, etc. Also, browsing this forum gives you an idea of how these ideologies play out politically. Then you can come to your own conclusion of things.


this is coming from a person who is a reformed facist..was a member of an american neo-nazi group for a period of time before I discovered the err of my ways and dropped out..not after becoming a fairly higher ranking member in the group :(
Well... at least you're on the right (no pun intended) side now. So long as you aren't trolling. I used to be a fascist bigot as well, and it seems that a good number of people on RevLeft used to be too. I think it's just misdirected anger - instead of towards the system we're in, it's towards minorities and the like.

[Crusade]

Welcome aboard. Coming from a family of black panthers I can't help but ask what changed your mind about your ideology? Also here's some free online reading that will let you know a bit about socialist thinking

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_1.html

^ that one's good
http://www.radical.org.uk/anarchism/

^ if you haven't noticed I have a slight bias for anarchism :cool:

And I had a few of the same worries initially about managed "businesses" as well, but after understanding more I discovered I was wrong about almost everything. This doesn't mean you'll agree with it once you understand what it all means, but I can assure you it won't have the same bogeyman image it had before.

[mikelepore]

what would be the best way about going developing ones own personal philosophy on the matter

Don't hurry, because beginners usually ask "how would things work?", "what would it be like?", etc., and the truth is, for everyone who tells you one thing, there is someone else who would tell you the opposite. You have to classify for yourself the large number of viewpoints that are out there. Every idea you hear and read should be tentative. Let it soak in until you're own views grow by themselves. You'll know when it happens, because one day you will hear someone else provide their own theory, and you will spontaneously respond, "No, that's not right at all, for the following reasons....."

[Tablo]

Don't hurry, because beginners usually ask "how would things work?", "what would it be like?", etc., and the truth is, for everyone who tells you one thing, there is someone else who would tell you the opposite. You have to classify for yourself the large number of viewpoints that are out there. Every idea you hear and read should be tentative. Let it soak in until you're own views grow by themselves. You'll know when it happens, because one day you will hear someone else provide their own theory, and you will spontaneously respond, "No, that's not right at all, for the following reasons....."
I completely agree. The way I reached my current perspective was by being as critical as possible and looking for the most solid perspective in line with my own beliefs. It was all a bit confusing for me when I started out and I could not hold an argument, but now I'm able to easily respond to almost every reactionary comment I receive.

[Tatarin]

I often mention this, but you can find a lot from the ultimate Marxist archive:

Link to Ultimate Marxist Archive! (http://www.marxists.org)

And as stated above, experiment at first. Find what makes sense at first and work it from there. Just have an open mind, but don't get rooted to hard in any tendency! After all, we are striving for the same goals although in different ways.

[binary01]

I used to have a vaguely Leninist, citizens taking over the existing state appartus stance. But a few years ago, I found a great guide called "The Anarchist FAQ". It it a great online document (and updated for the 21st century!) that details almost everything you would want to know about social anarchism. Needless to say, I adopted the anarchist viewpoint upon reviewing the FAQ. Just do a Google search for "anarchist FAQ" it will be the first search result.

[Vendetta]

I guess what the real question is once one identifys himself as leftist, what would be the best way about going developing ones own personal philosophy on the matter..i hardly like to blindly accept anything these days but i definately vibe well with a lot i've read as far as socialist or leftist thoughts...

The only answer is read anything and everything you can come across, but take everything with a grain of salt, as more likely than not, it'll be pushing some agenda or tendency. Don't worry about trying to identify yourself as a follower of a long-dead person from history, worry about your position in class politics. If you identify with their politics, that's fine, just don't get caught up in the 'He's always right!' game.

As for the Anarchist FAQ, http://www.infoshop.org/page/AnAnarchistFAQ

[heylelshalem]

thank you all. As far as my old ideaology well i don't think i ever really was fully convinced...it was convenient to me to have a "gang" and as much as i felt "oppressed" as a working person, i knew into it that my anger was pointed in the wrong direction...anger being the key tool for those sorts of groups to brainwash folks...as it seems all that rage tends to shut down rational thinking quite easily..I see the error in my ways as far as that goes..but I think my involvement in that sort of think gives me a optimal understanding of the mechanisms of facism...and how that sort of thing works....

thank you all for the links. I will definately be busy reading this :)

[A.R.Amistad]

Welcome comrade, and I'm really ecstatic to see more existentialist comrades joining our ranks. Depending on your level of Marxist understanding, I'd go for reading Ruis' "Marx for Beginners" it can be found in just about any bookstore and is a fun, easy read (mostly illustrated.) For a good overview of some of Lenin's works, there's a good book called the "Lenin Reader" which avoids any bias whatsoever and it cuts through the bullshit. The book takes selected passages that are essential to Lenin's contributions to Marxism and it makes sense because they put it in a universal context, not just Russia. Really enlightening read too. if you are into Trotsky at all, theres a book called 'Trotsky Speaks" that I'd recommend. As for existentialism and Marxism, you may already know this, but check out Sartre's "Existentialism is a Humanism," "Searching for a Method" and "Critique of Dialectics." Also, a personal favorite of mine, Camu's "Myth of Sysiphus," a metaphor of the working class under capitalism. But of course you already knew that ;)

[Raúl Duke]

Don't get hung up over labels...it's no big deal


more like buisness collectives..like they had in "argentina"??

Usually, they're referred to as worker's co-ops (or just co-operatives in general terms) where the workers as a collective own (whether in the capitalist sense or otherwise depending on the society's overall economic framework) the means of production of their workplace.

[Chambered Word]

'Marx's Kapital for Beginners' is a really good read, and it's not too long. It's been posted on RevLeft, just Google it. ;)

[Bright Banana Beard]

check out my sig link for starter.

[The Red Next Door]

Read Rosa Luxumberg speaks as well. that the book, I have check out but I haven't read it yet, Still reading Das Kapital.

[The Red Next Door]

Read Rosa Luxumberg speaks as well. that the book tthat I have checked out but I haven't read it yet, Still reading Das Kapital.

[heylelshalem]

thank you all again for your responses. sorry for the late reply.

[jake williams]

i think that i am socialist but i still believe in trade
"Trade" of some sort - exchange in goods and services, directly or indirectly, or put another way, division of labour - is a function of almost any society, virtually by definition, at least a modern society. Trade in commodities is a very particular thing, which only arises as the predominant economic form, or perhaps even the predominant social activity under capitalism, and will disappear as such with it. But any society where individuals do not produce solely for personal consumption will have to share labour somehow.

The problem for a socialist is not trade as such, but capitalism as such. The problem isn't necessarily the exchange in goods and services (not that such exchange is incapable of causing some types of problems), but the control of the means of production and the social surplus by the capitalist class. A society where workers control the economy would be one where workers control the exchange of goods and services, and the division of labour - you would still have "trade" in the broadest sense, but of a fundamentally different character than that under capitalism.

[AK]

Read from a variety of authors from different tendencies - communists and anarchists alike, criticise, and form your own opinions. Chances are you'll find yourself in a tendency sooner or later - and if not, who the hell cares? So long as your ideas truly liberate the world and free it from inequality and oppression, I'm fine with them.

[leftace53]

Along with reading, what benefited me was asking questions, and lots of it. There are generally standard beliefs of communists (worker rights and such) and there are differences of beliefs within factions. With questions about seemingly random things (family structures, religious involvement in communist socieities) you can really see the different factions come into play, and can decide for yourself about where you lie in the commie spectrum.

[StoneFrog]

As others have said before reading up on different leftist things is the best solution, and will help provide you on your own views.
When i first started looking into the left, i had more trouble with did i support a State/Governing solution or a more libertarian solution. Going back and forth between Communism and Anarchism, then i settled on the middle ground. The biggest tip i think you can get while on these forums, take everything with a pinch of salt, do your own research into matters, and find solutions within yourself. Taking the teachings of Marx, Lenin or whom ever as how it is to be done is not very productive, a lot of leftist writings where written along time ago. It is up to the people now to take what is relevant and build a new.

[scarletghoul]

im new to socialism..as far as my political beliefs go i think that i am socialist but i still believe in trade..i don't believe in corporate capitalism like we have in the states though..but i also don't believe in "managed" buisnesses...more like buisness collectives..like they had in "argentina"?? I have a few books by lenin, a marx/ engels reader and some other psuedo socialist stuff, not sure if abby hoffman counts...well ok to the question at hand here..i'm having difficulty in finding my political label here..and i am trying to figure out where to start in my political studies. Philisophically i am existentialist and spiritually i am a atheistic buddhist..but this is coming from a person who is a reformed facist..was a member of an american neo-nazi group for a period of time before I discovered the err of my ways and dropped out..not after becoming a fairly higher ranking member in the group :(

I guess what the real question is once one identifys himself as leftist, what would be the best way about going developing ones own personal philosophy on the matter..i hardly like to blindly accept anything these days but i definately vibe well with a lot i've read as far as socialist or leftist thoughts...
Main advice to you is don't be in a hurry to label yourself. "atheistic buddhist" "fascist" "existentialist" "socialist", to be honest I suspect none of these were ever really who you were or an accurate description of your thought. Maybe you just agreed with a few ideas from them.. but you shouldn't be to keen to label yourself something for the sake of labelling. Just read a lot of stuff and take in all the ideas, some will seem good to you some wont, read also some history and practice, and eventually things will fall into place and you will develop an understanding of the world.. and then you'll probably find some label attaches itself generally to your ideas anyway.

but dont try and label yourself then try to understand the world from there, because it doesnt work that way round