The Political Damage Of The World Cup.

[chegitz guevara]

Where's the, I'm an American and I don't care about the World's Cup option?

Edit: I didn't start this thread. The OP is missing.

[Audeamus]

Where's the, I'm an American and I don't care about the World's Cup option?

Quite. As an American I can't say I've ever seen anyone remotely care about football, even the World Cup. I'd say the biggest problem with such events, though, is less any nationalistic sentiments, and more the evictions of working people from their homes in order to "beautify" the area, and the diversion of funds towards stadia building projects. Both of which are quite evident in South Africa with the upcoming World Cup.

[cb9's_unity]

I'd have to say that even in the Olympics I didn't really see any noticeable spike in nationalism.

Of course Americans only really care about the sports we dominate in (baseball, american football). We don't care much about sports in which our national team even has a chance of loosing.

[chegitz guevara]

Hmm, I actually enjoyed watching ManU beat the snot out of Bolton the other day. :)

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

I support the Mexican football team (I live in the States) but I don't get nationalistic about it. If Mexico loses, then I root for Spain. If Spain loses, Argentina.

Basically, I support anybody that is playing against the United States. I get a lot more satisfaction out of seeing the US lose than seeing anybody in particular win.

[chegitz guevara]

I only watch football when I'm in my local Irish pub, which I haven't been in since Saturday.

[bailey_187]

Sure, i support Englands football team. Why not? Its only football. Its shit like this that makes people think we are a bunch of weirdos. How am i going to go into Weatherspoons when a games on and tell people "nah, im not supporting Imperialist England, we workers have no country". Thats not getting people on our side. That is not "tailing the workers" either, that is just being a normal person. If someone was to talk about supporting England in Afghanistan invasion, and to not cause negative reactions, thats a different matter, but this is just football.

I would quite like to see the DPRK do well in the world cup though.

[SmashTheState]

i dont watch football its the new opium of the masses

[Das war einmal]

I support my national team. Supporting one's country is not bad per definition . If your country suddenly decides to cut on defence and spend that money on education, you can be proud of your country.

[RedScare]

I support my national team, it's one of the few things in which the Americans are the underdogs. It's unlikely the US will go very far anyways, and it's just soccer. We can critique the economic impact of the World Cup on South Africa, how they treat the construction workers, and the ridiculous wages of the players, but when it comes down to the actual game itself, it's just a sport.

[RadioRaheem84]

Being anti-soccer in this nation is a tool by the right wing to promote nationalism and American exceptionalism.

[Robocommie]

Its shit like this that makes people think we are a bunch of weirdos.

Absolutely, hands down.

[Tatarin]

Now, what could all that finance that goes into this event do for starving, scared, sick, the elderly, homeless, jobless, the banished, the asylum seekers, the street children, and all of the 90% of the people on this planet that lives in absolute misery with no optimistic future in sight do?

[R_P_A_S]

I support Mexico and It's a hate/love affair haha. I don't get nationalistic. Is just football and thats my "home team" I want those guys to do good. The nationalism is sick whenever it comes out from fans. =/

[Comrade B]

I am German-Italian-(a mess of things, mostly Scottish and Comanche) and living in the US, but I root for Germany all the time. Most of my family is there, and more fun when my Mexico fan friends, US fan friends, and I are all watching

edit: This should probably be moved to sports though

[Guerrilla22]

move to sports in chit chat please

[GatesofLenin]

This is why I miss East Germany, was fun watching the tough ladies kick major @$$! :D

[Wanted Man]

I semi-support it, but I won't be wearing anything orange. :rolleyes: I think the whole orange patriotism is stupid, but it's also relatively harmless.

Q0RsX1XQ5OA

[Devrim]

I don't really get excited by international football nowadays. Back in the past we used to watch the World Cup and see a much better standard of football than we saw every week. Nowadays, with greater mobility of players, and the Champions League, the World Cup compares pretty poorly in terms of quality.

Yes, I will watch it. It will be summer. I will be sitting in the pub drinking beer, and hopefully watching it with an English friend of mine and laughing at their national team, but it is no something that excites me.

Personally, I am glad that Turkey isn't there. People have a tendency to shoot guns in the air here after winning football matches, which surprise, surprise tends to kill people. I also dislike the extreme nationalism and xenophobia that builds up around national team matches.

A look at events around this tournament's Algeria-Egypt qualifying matches shows how football can be a part of developing nationalist sentiment, or even further back the so-called 'Soccer War' between Honduras and El Salvador. Even in Western European countries the atmosphere gets much more nationalistic and xenophobic around the time of a major international tournament.

Devrim

[Stranger Than Paradise]

I do support Scotland but I don't see anything wrong with it, it's football. And at the World Cup i'll support anyone who plays England.

[black magick hustla]

i like when mexico wins. it means that if i am in mexico people will be drunk in the streets and it would be like a big party

[Devrim]

It was great when Cuba beat America,...

When did Cuba beat America?

Devrim

[¿Que?]

I always root for my native country, Argentina.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9EuQ8ix3L4

Good times, good times.

[RadioRaheem84]

Chi-Chi-Chi Le Le Le, Viva Chile!

They're in this time aren't they? :confused:

If not I'll have to root for the US.

Jeez, how can the US be so bad though? We have 300 million people, nationalities from all over the world and we cannot find 22 good football players? Dead last almost every single time.

[bricolage]

Jeez, how can the US be so bad though? We have 300 million people, nationalities from all over the world and we cannot find 22 good football players? Dead last almost every single time.

I think with the amount of youth academies, summer camps, coaches travelling to the country etc it won't be long until America starts becoming a bigger footballing force.

[Angry Young Man]

Where's the, I'm an American and I don't care about the World's Cup option?

Right next to the 'What? You mean a sports tournament with "World'' in the title has lots of countries?' option.

And this should really be in sports and health.

[chegitz guevara]

Hey! I didn't make this poll!

[Chimurenga.]

I would quite like to see the DPRK do well in the world cup though.

So would I but their first two matches are with Brazil and Portugal. It's going to be tough for them.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

It's ironic (almost laughable) that the very people who want to (or say that they want to) emancipate the workers of the world, are showing in this thread just how out of touch they are with the very people they claim to either represent/lead/be on the side of.

Football is the game of the working class. It is like a universal language (sorry to get fluffy with my semantics there).

There is a difference between supporting a team, even a national team, and supporting or crediting Nationalism. In domestic football, we can support our own teams without resorting to thuggery or hooliganism.

In fact, i'm not going to write any more on this issue, because for me it really should be a non-issue. Regardless of everything that is wrong with football today, it is not the actual existence of the sport itself that is to blame, but the people that hijack it for their own ends.

I love football, i'd never stop loving it simply because the money used to promote a world football event could alleviate some of the poverty in the world. Football is not political, or at least it shouldn't be. It should be the antithesis of politics - something that people like myself can enjoy for a couple of hours on the weekend to forget the various hardships that face us as workers the rest of the time.

[bricolage]

Football is the game of the working class. It is like a universal language (sorry to get fluffy with my semantics there).

Damn straight.
I think it's time to post this again; http://www.eco-action.org/dod/no9/football.htm.

[RadioRaheem84]

Which team in Italy has a Commie base and which one has a Fascist base? It it AC Milan and Lazio? I know they get into fisticuffs from time to time.

[bricolage]

Which team in Italy has a Commie base and which one has a Fascist base? It it AC Milan and Lazio? I know they get into fisticuffs from time to time.

Lazio (right) and Livorno (left) are the ones I know.
Although I think there might be other teams with far right ultras, it wouldn't surprise me.

[Audeamus]

Which team in Italy has a Commie base and which one has a Fascist base? It it AC Milan and Lazio? I know they get into fisticuffs from time to time.

I know Livorno has a pretty left wing fanbase. Not surprising given that Livorno is where the Communist Party of Italy was founded. And yeah Lazio's is pretty right wing. Pretty sure Lazio was Mussolini's team.

[RadioRaheem84]

What's the jerks name who gave the roman salute to the Lazio fans?

[Audeamus]

What's the jerks name who gave the roman salute to the Lazio fans?

That was Paolo di Canio.

[black magick hustla]

It's ironic (almost laughable) that the very people who want to (or say that they want to) emancipate the workers of the world, are showing in this thread just how out of touch they are with the very people they claim to either represent/lead/be on the side of.

Football is the game of the working class. It is like a universal language (sorry to get fluffy with my semantics there).

There is a difference between supporting a team, even a national team, and supporting or crediting Nationalism. In domestic football, we can support our own teams without resorting to thuggery or hooliganism.

In fact, i'm not going to write any more on this issue, because for me it really should be a non-issue. Regardless of everything that is wrong with football today, it is not the actual existence of the sport itself that is to blame, but the people that hijack it for their own ends.

I love football, i'd never stop loving it simply because the money used to promote a world football event could alleviate some of the poverty in the world. Football is not political, or at least it shouldn't be. It should be the antithesis of politics - something that people like myself can enjoy for a couple of hours on the weekend to forget the various hardships that face us as workers the rest of the time.

i do not go on wild speeches about the evil of football but to say that football is not politicized and that people do not express some pretty shit xenophobic and racist tendencies in relation to it is pretty damn naive. i have nothing against the game itself though. its a good excuse to drink

[bricolage]

That was Paolo di Canio.

Paulo "I'm a fascist, not a racist" di Canio.

[the last donut of the night]

brazil muthafuckas

[Bandito]

In Italy, Livorno and Atalanta are leftists, and Inter and Lazio are fascist. AC Milan's fans are fascinated with Berlusconi, who owns the club, but don't get into fascist saluting.

P.S.
Paolo di Canio didn't "give" anyone the "Roman" salute. Lazio fans were fascists long before he started saluting.

[Redmau5]

P.S.
Paolo di Canio didn't "give" anyone the "Roman" salute. Lazio fans were fascists long before he started saluting.

This is what he is referring to;

http://lagranjaberga.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/di_canio_salute1.jpg

[Bandito]

And this is Cristiano Lucarelli's homage to Livorno ultras:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHZ5gyXVwSU
;)

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Yeah Cristiano Lucarelli is a hometown hero in Livorno. He once said after a game "we get not favours from the referee because we are communists". Very interesting guy.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I wonder which exploited sweat-shop worker produced his nice little Che t-shirt.

[Wanted Man]

I wonder which exploited sweat-shop worker produced his nice little Che t-shirt.

What a dumb assumption. Can we assume that your shit does not stink?

[Bandito]

I wonder which exploited sweat-shop worker produced his nice little Che t-shirt.
If I had your brain, I'd wonder how many imperialist wars have been waged to passivize the masses in your country with a standard of living high enough for you to buy a computer and write shit.

[Tifosi]

Lazio ultras are fascist on the whole, they don't have as much power these days as in the past but can still make things happern. Lazio player Mauro Zarate only a few week's ago in with the ultras.

http://www.goal.com/it/news/article-image?id=92239

But even at Lazio it's hard to say all of the ultras are fascist, one of the top boys in Lazio's curva is said to be a Communist...

In Italy Livorno,*Empoli,*Pisa,*Ternana,*Ancona,*Modena,*Co senza, Perugia have left wing ultra's.*

Offically*apolitical now but where you will find many on the left are Genoa,*Torino,*Atalanta,*Sampdoria,*Fiorentina and*Napoli.

Fascist and radical right wing controls*Roma (there are left wing groups there but right-wingers control most of the stand),*Lazio,*Palermo, Juventus (have some left-wingers and a few links with Celtic fans, mostly TAL people),*Inter Milan,*Verona,*Triestina,*Ascoli and*Varese.

AC Milan's old group where left-wing but split in 2005, now there is a mixed bag on the curva and hard to say for sure.


Pretty sure Lazio was Mussolini's team

I'm sure his team was Roma.

[praxis1966]

As an American I can't say I've ever seen anyone remotely care about football, even the World Cup.

Check the photos on my FaceBook and you will. Anyhow, while I do support the US Nats, it's not as though that support translates into nationalistic feelings any more than my support for the Atlanta Braves stirs any Southern regionalist sentiments. It's just a sport, after all. Anyway, that support is tempered by the fact that my first choice national team has been and always will be Eire, who didn't make the cup this year (thanks Henry, you cheating bastard). As for club footy, I'm an Everton supporter. Let the flame war begin.


I'm sure his team was Roma.

There's a pretty good book on cultural anthropology viewed threw the lens of club football support called How Soccer Explains the World (obviously written by a Yank). According to it, Mussolini supported Lazio. In case it hasn't already been mentioned, Gen. Franco supported Real Madrid, btw.

[Audeamus]

I'm sure his team was Roma.

Really? Damn BBC lying to me again.


Check the photos on my FaceBook and you will.

I suppose I shouldn't say none. I saw a few people enjoying the last World Cup when I was in California. Mostly the Latino/a workers in the restaurants and bars we went to.


In case it hasn't already been mentioned, Gen. Franco supported Real Madrid, btw.

Not surprising that Real Madrid's ultras are on the right then.

[Spawn of Stalin]

I support England, I am English, and I am a football fan, it's the natural choice and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I wear my England shirt with pride, not because I am proud of my country, but because I am proud that I support the greatest football team in the world.

[Tifosi]

Really? Damn BBC lying to me again.

I'm not totally sure, I was told that by a Lazio fan over the Internet which might explain a great deal on this. If you Google it, he was a Lazio fan. Lazio's core fanbase comes from the North of Rome which is the best off part of town.


but because I am proud that I support the greatest football team in the world.

LOL! You watching Sky Sports News :lol:

Spain are the best team today, Brazil 1970 greatest team in history.

[Devrim]

But even at Lazio it's hard to say all of the ultras are fascist, one of the top boys in Lazio's curva is said to be a Communist...


I think that the whole thing about left-right wing clubs is nonsense. The clubs I support is a 'fascist' club, yet all the people I know who go are some sort of socialists, which in my opinion says much more about my social environment than the nature of the fans in general. Yes, there are of course fascists there.

There are of course right-wing gangs connected to football, but I don't think it means that particular teams have a particular orientation.

You comment on Italian football from Scotland. I think that things can become a bit hazy from a distance. I will tell you some of the things that I have heard in this country about British clubs; Rangers are the 'left-wing team' and Celtic are the 'right wing team' (This is based on Turkish people generally not having much of an knowledge of splits in Christianity and thinking that those who protested must be more left), the same splits over sectarianism that exist in Scotland exist in every English city (They did historically exist at clubs in the North-West, but I doubt many people today could even tell you, which is which), All Tottenham fans are Jews (incidentally the only Tottenham fans that I know, a friend and his two lads, are actually Jewish), conversely Arsenal fans are Muslims, Manchester United fans are all communists because of the name 'Red Army' (despite me pointing out that it might actually be more connected to the colour of their shirts...I could go on.

Devrim

*I consider myself reasonably well informed about English football. I have lived in England, have been a season ticket holder at two clubs (not because I changed the team I supported, but because I moved to a different city) and still follow it in the news and on TV.

Devrim

[Devrim]

I support England, I am English, and I am a football fan, it's the natural choice and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I wear my England shirt with pride, not because I am proud of my country, but because I am proud that I support the greatest football team in the world.

England are a typical semi-final team, who in a lucky year manage to overachieve by getting knocked out by the Germans in the semis on penalties. They won the World Cup once, at home, probably when your father was still in short trousers, and their media haven't stopped going on about it yet. Today they are a bunch of average journeymen, or as Cantona put it 'water-carriers' with one exceptional player.

Devrim

[OCMO]

You mixed Rangers and Celtic about right-left leanings of the fans. St. Pauli (probably tho most left-leaning club) every year organizes a friendly match with Celtic. On the other hand, Rangers fans support Hamburg SV (St. Pauli rivals and woth fans that are clearly fascist) and vice-versa.

Btw, St.Pauli can move up to Bundesliga this year!

[Spawn of Stalin]

England are a typical semi-final team, who in a lucky year manage to overachieve by getting knocked out by the Germans in the semis on penalties. They won the World Cup once, at home, probably when your father was still in short trousers, and their media haven't stopped going on about it yet. Today they are a bunch of average journeymen, or as Cantona put it 'water-carriers' with one exceptional player.

Devrim
The greatest football team in the world.

[praxis1966]

I suppose I shouldn't say none. I saw a few people enjoying the last World Cup when I was in California. Mostly the Latino/a workers in the restaurants and bars we went to.

Dude, no offense, but you sound like Jim Rome. For whatever reason, the game of footy has a way of bringing out the inner Anne Coulter in people in this country (I'm not saying that last bit describes you, but it does alot of people). For the record, I'm a cracker-ass, and I know plenty of other cracker-asses that are into the sport as well. You forget that the current generation of soccer/proper football fans (I'm thinking of adults aged 25-35) in the US were primarily borne of hippie parents who wanted their children involved in "alternative" sport. They wanted to avoid the alpha male machismo involved in sports like baseball and (American) football, which is why they had us (and I say us because that's exactly why my father got me involved) playing soccer. At any rate, I was taking the long way 'round in explaining that since the bulk of those hippies were college educated, most of them were middle class. Middle class, in most cases in the US, = white.


I consider myself reasonably well informed about English football. I have lived in England, have been a season ticket holder at two clubs (not because I changed the team I supported, but because I moved to a different city) and still follow it in the news and on TV.Same here. I have an EPL fantasy club with Citizen Sports that's ranked in the top 1% in a global league that has 910,000 participants. For that matter, I'm ranked 5th in East Bay, CA, though I'm only 4 points off the pace for 4th, so I'm hopeful that'll change after this weekend.


England are a typical semi-final team, who in a lucky year manage to overachieve by getting knocked out by the Germans in the semis on penalties. They won the World Cup once, at home, probably when your father was still in short trousers, and their media haven't stopped going on about it yet. Today they are a bunch of average journeymen, or as Cantona put it 'water-carriers' with one exceptional player.

Say what you want, but England are still an outside favorite for me to win it. Have to say I definitely agree with bulk of what you say, lol.That being said, Spain are probably my favorite, with the Netherlands a dark horse. I'm here to say right now, though, neither Argentina nor Brazil have a chance. Argentina, despite having arguably the best player in the world, don't have a midfield. And, I think we all know that's where the game is won or lost. Besides, their coach is a crackhead. Brazil, on the other hand, look like the German army at the end of World War II: either way too old or way too young. Besides, they have a Brazilian coach. That's an issue because as we all know the last time a Brazilian coach won anything when not coaching the Brazilian national team was in 1999 at the Copa Libertadores.

[Audeamus]

Dude, no offense, but you sound like Jim Rome. For whatever reason, the game of footy has a way of bringing out the inner Anne Coulter in people in this country (I'm not saying that last bit describes you, but it does alot of people). For the record, I'm a cracker-ass, and I know plenty of other cracker-asses that are into the sport as well. You forget that the current generation of soccer/proper football fans (I'm thinking of adults aged 25-35) in the US were primarily borne of hippie parents who wanted their children involved in "alternative" sport. They wanted to avoid the alpha male machismo involved in sports like baseball and (American) football, which is why they had us (and I say us because that's exactly why my father got me involved) playing soccer. At any rate, I was taking the long way 'round in explaining that since the bulk of those hippies were college educated, most of them were middle class. Middle class, in most cases in the US, = white.

:blink: It was an observation dude. Or would you like to tell me that I didn't see what I saw?

[praxis1966]

:blink: It was an observation dude. Or would you like to tell me that I didn't see what I saw?

I wasn't making an accusation. I don't think you think that way. I'm just saying that there are alot of people who use the sport to bash immigrants (ie illegal immigrants suck, only illegal immigrants like soccer, therefore, soccer sucks); sometimes even going so far to call it a communist plot. If only we were so lucky...

[gorillafuck]

I want the team that everyone expects to do worst to win.

[brigadista]

dont support any one team - just like to watch all the matches because i like football.

looking forward to brazil v ivory coast though

[praxis1966]

I want the team that everyone expects to do worst to win.

If I had to pick, I'd say that's a toss up between New Zealand, Algeria, the DPRK, and the host country (unfortunately) South Africa.


looking forward to brazil v ivory coast though

That ought to be a good one. Personally, I'm looking forward to the England-US match.

[Audeamus]

I wasn't making an accusation. I don't think you think that way. I'm just saying that there are alot of people who use the sport to bash immigrants (ie illegal immigrants suck, only illegal immigrants like soccer, therefore, soccer sucks); sometimes even going so far to call it a communist plot. If only we were so lucky...

Ahhh I see.


I want the team that everyone expects to do worst to win.

Yeah root for the DPRK. The rest of their group is pretty nasty.

[Devrim]

You mixed Rangers and Celtic about right-left leanings of the fans. St. Pauli (probably tho most left-leaning club) every year organizes a friendly match with Celtic. On the other hand, Rangers fans support Hamburg SV (St. Pauli rivals and woth fans that are clearly fascist) and vice-versa.

No, I didn't mix them up. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. It was a list of things misconceptions that people have in this country. Maybe I explained it badly.

I know Rangers is associated with Unionism , which is a very right-wing ideology. I don't think republicanism is left-wing either though. It is just another nationalism.

I think that the whole thing about 'left-wing clubs' is absurd. Yes, there may be a few noisy people who are left, but most fans aren't in with that at all. As I said earlier the team I support is fascist. The last St Pauli fans I talked two were two fascists (MHP members). The idea of organising something 'socialist' in support of a business comes across as a bit strange to me.

Devrim

[Coggeh]

No, I didn't mix them up. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. It was a list of things misconceptions that people have in this country. Maybe I explained it badly.

I know Rangers is associated with Unionism , which is a very right-wing ideology. I don't think republicanism is left-wing either though. It is just another nationalism.

I think that the whole thing about 'left-wing clubs' is absurd. Yes, there may be a few noisy people who are left, but most fans aren't in with that at all. As I said earlier the team I support is fascist. The last St Pauli fans I talked two were two fascists (MHP members). The idea of organising something 'socialist' in support of a business comes across as a bit strange to me.

Devrim
Indeed your quite right about political ideogies and clubs in many ways clubs with fascist supporters means little about the actual clubs political ideologies but some clubs such as Lazio and rangers are inherently right wing where as clubs such as Livorno would be left clubs such as Celtic and Athletic club de bilbao would be nationalist towards republicanism of ireland and Basque.

Generally i agree with your point though.

[Il Medico]

I don't know why, but I have never really been able to throw my support behind the American team. I enjoy watching and playing soccer, which is rather unusual for an American. But when it comes to the World Cup, I usually root for Italy, or Spain, or England, or France. Usually Italy though, probably because I have an Italian background. But I really don't get that deep into it like you guys do.

[praxis1966]

I don't know why, but I have never really been able to throw my support behind the American team. I enjoy watching and playing soccer, which is rather usual for an American. But when it comes to the World Cup, I usually root for Italy, or Spain, or England, or France. Usually Italy though, probably because I have an Italian background. But I really don't get that deep into it like you guys do.

That's not unusual for American footy fans. Alot of people I know support other countries for various reasons. Usually, Brazil is America's second favorite team, but because of exposure to the EPL through FSC and ESPN alot of Americans are now supporting England as well. Personally, I support Ireland as my favorite team, I suppose, because that's where my ethnic heritage comes from. Not to mention if the US and Ireland ever played head to head in the WC I'd probably cheer for Ireland to win it. After the US and Ireland, I sort of have a tepid support for Argentina, but that's just because I've been an admirer of the way they play for about 15 years or so (not because of any personal links to the country).

I personally think it has something to do with the fact that aside from some modest success in 1994 and 2002, the US hasn't really done anything in the WC in almost 80 years. Alot of countries with that kind of track record are the same way. South Africans, for instance, have actually purchased more tickets to see England matches this summer than they have the South African national team.