Playing the Holocaust Card

[Tablo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUDzJ1HDXJk
Silly zionists get owned.

[Nolan]

Ten dollars say the comments section is dominated by fascists.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

The girl crying at the end is the icing on the cake. :thumbup1:

[Tablo]

The comments sections isn't that bad since this is from the channel of a person I believe is a Libertarian Socialist. Most comments are laughing at the crying zionist girl.

[Chambered Word]

That was epic. I lol'd at the whiny Zionist (who is presumably crying for those poor oppressed Israelis :rolleyes:).

[jake williams]

Two things.

First, in a recent Democracy Now interview Finkelstein made specific reference to precisely that clip, saying he's not especially proud of his own emotional outbursts and that he thinks he's progressed. Personally I disagree, I liked him better when he was pissed the fuck off. I think it's valuable to be emotionally honest, even in politics. It's tricky though.

Second, the clip is from the University of Waterloo, which is about a 20 minute drive from where I grew up. It's mostly a really geeky conservative math and engineering school, it's got a bit of reputation for being a secluded sausage fest. The adjoining town (Kitchener) has a historically large German population, and actually used to be named "Berlin". According to several people I've talked to, they also got a lot of nazis who left Germany after the war. More so I think than Zionists. The impression I get is the chick is actually talking about nazis who might be offended, as opposed to Zionists.

It was actually really funny to hear him say that at the end, that's more or less how I feel about people from KW.

[which doctor]

oh yeah, the holocaust, really funny

[Jimmie Higgins]

Did that one guy in the audience yell: "The Jews never took up arms against the NAZIs"?

Umm... Warsaw Ghetto uprising? How fucked up to either not know about that or to ignore the heroic resistance of people against the Nazis.

[Nolan]

I think he said "The Jews rose up and fought the Germans" or something like that.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

I think he said "The Jews rose up and fought the Germans" or something like that.
No he said "The Jews did not take up arms against the Germans!" Presumably he's implying the Palestinians should not take up arms against Israel.

[PHUNX]

No he said "The Jews did not take up arms against the Germans!" Presumably he's implying the Palestinians should not take up arms against Israel.

"The Jews did not take up arms against the Germans!" that's what it sounded like, historically incorrect though

[Jimmie Higgins]

"The Jews did not take up arms against the Germans!" that's what it sounded like, historically incorrect thoughAlthough it would be convenient ideologically for Zionists... obviously it removes the obvious parallels between resistance by the Palestinians and resistance against the Nazis. Secondly, whitewashing jewish resistance to the Nazis (direct resistance under occupation and often in allience with radicals and communists in non-occupied countries) fits the zionist argument that Israel is the only vehicle for jewish people to defend themselves.

[Invincible Summer]

That girl needs to get a grip.

This might get me in some trouble, but why are Jews always going on about the Holocaust? I mean, millions Gypsies, handicapped people, Polish people, Slavic people, Communists, etc were murdered there too. You don't see them crying openly about it.
I mean, it wasn't a happy thing that happened, but can't people get over this shit? I don't go back and read about the supposed millions that died in China during the Great Leap Forward and think about my ancestors and go sulk and cry and whine. Get on with your fucking lives and stop playing the victim. Finkelstein is right - Jews should learn from what the Nazis did and prevent the same shit from happening. instead, they want to just moan and sob. Pathetic.
Maybe I'm just a cold-hearted bastard but the people who died were probably great-grandparents or something of these students, and they didn't even meet them. Why would it affect them so much? Smells like a lot of melodramatic bullshit.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Well I think that if you are a baby-boomer and jewish, you are directly connected in some way to people who went through this horror, so I don't think people are being melodramatic at all.

What I find distasteful is the way the holocaust is used by Zionists to justify Israel. Zionism is no challenge to anti-semitism and the most cynical Zionists actually want it to continue in Eastern Europe and other places to encourage people to move to Israel.

[Tablo]

I don't like how the holocaust gets so much attention when there are other genocides going on in the world. Even when we have recognized genocides since then people don't seem to care since they weren't "as bad as the holocaust".

Not that the holocaust wasn't a horrible tragedy. I just feel like people downplay other tragedies with it.

[jake williams]

That girl needs to get a grip.

This might get me in some trouble, but why are Jews always going on about the Holocaust? I mean, millions Gypsies, handicapped people, Polish people, Slavic people, Communists, etc were murdered there too. You don't see them crying openly about it.
I mean, it wasn't a happy thing that happened, but can't people get over this shit? I don't go back and read about the supposed millions that died in China during the Great Leap Forward and think about my ancestors and go sulk and cry and whine. Get on with your fucking lives and stop playing the victim. Finkelstein is right - Jews should learn from what the Nazis did and prevent the same shit from happening. instead, they want to just moan and sob. Pathetic.
Maybe I'm just a cold-hearted bastard but the people who died were probably great-grandparents or something of these students, and they didn't even meet them. Why would it affect them so much? Smells like a lot of melodramatic bullshit.
You folks aren't listening. These guys' ancestors were nazis, not European Jews.

[Invincible Summer]

Well my feelings still stand. And I don't see why nazis would be offended. Ugh.. people are so ridiculous

[PHUNX]

but why are Jews always going on about the Holocaust? I mean, millions Gypsies, handicapped people, Polish people, Slavic people, Communists, etc were murdered there too. You don't see them crying openly about it.
that's because Gypsies, handicapped people, Polish people, Slavic people, Communists, etc don't control the entire western media


(direct resistance under occupation and often in allience with radicals and communists in non-occupied countries)
they also planned with and assisted the "Black Front" in assassination attempts of hitler but you won't see that in a hollywood film

i can see it now warner brothers presents "fighting fascism with fascism"

[Jimmie Higgins]

that's because Gypsies, handicapped people, Polish people, Slavic people, Communists, etc don't control the entire western media:blink: WTF?

Yeah, an Australian-born Catholic American named Murdoch does.

[ChrisK]

Much like that girl, I too cried. Tears of great laughter.

[Pirate Utopian]

that's because Gypsies, handicapped people, Polish people, Slavic people, Communists, etc don't control the entire western media
But the Jews do?

[Nolan]

that's because Gypsies, handicapped people, Polish people, Slavic people, Communists, etc don't control the entire western media


Shouldn't you be on stormfront?

[Robocommie]

This might get me in some trouble, but why are Jews always going on about the Holocaust? I mean, millions Gypsies, handicapped people, Polish people, Slavic people, Communists, etc were murdered there too. You don't see them crying openly about it.
I mean, it wasn't a happy thing that happened, but can't people get over this shit? I don't go back and read about the supposed millions that died in China during the Great Leap Forward and think about my ancestors and go sulk and cry and whine. Get on with your fucking lives and stop playing the victim. Finkelstein is right - Jews should learn from what the Nazis did and prevent the same shit from happening. instead, they want to just moan and sob. Pathetic.
Maybe I'm just a cold-hearted bastard but the people who died were probably great-grandparents or something of these students, and they didn't even meet them. Why would it affect them so much? Smells like a lot of melodramatic bullshit.

Ease up a bit bro, you want to be careful about the kind of language you use. The "whiny Jew" has often served as a harshly racist stereotype. I'm not saying you're anti-Semitic, I'm just saying you want to be careful about the language you use, because it can misrepresent your views.

But honestly, in defense of the Jewish reaction to the Holocaust, a thing like that can't help but affect people for a long time. Consider Norman Finkelstein himself - he's only 56, yet both his parents were in death camps, and his father's entire family had been murdered by the Nazis. The children of his generation would be college aged or teenagers, and that means that there's still a very wide demographic that was personally affected by the Holocaust, or who is personally attached to the someone who was, like a father or grandfather that they love and care for. As well, people oftentimes share these stories, they have family photos and scrapbooks that have pictures taken from before WWII, of people who were murdered or starved to death because of the Nazi's brutality. Likewise, families have heirlooms, like wedding rings or wedding dresses or the special tablecloths used for Passover suppers, which they oftentimes smuggled out to prevent destruction or theft by the Nazis, and they serve as a reminder of just how much was lost. Similarly, synagogues often have ancient Torahs which had been smuggled out, or heirloom prayer shawls, so on and so forth.

I don't think it's particularly helpful to give them grief over being upset by the Holocaust, because that's no more helpful, kind or empathetic than being upset at African-Americans over slavery or at Armenians over the genocide committed against them in Turkey. They have a right to their anger and their grief.

Rather our criticism should be the exact same type displayed by Norman Finkelstein here himself - that the Holocaust should never be used as political weapon of oppression, like it is in Palestine. We should never humor the kind of language that would seek to capitalize on the horror and suffering of the Holocaust for latter day political purposes, like for example, pointing out Israel's strategic situation in being surrounded by Arab states and calling it a "Holocaust waiting to happen."

We have more than enough of a righteous cause to argue against that kind of Zionist waving of the bloody shirt, and more than enough of a moral high ground to defend Palestinians against invocations of the Holocaust, without having to dispossess people of their family history.

[Die Rote Fahne]

You folks aren't listening. These guys' ancestors were nazis, not European Jews.

What guys ancestors were nazis? Not Finkelstein's.

[jake williams]

What guys ancestors were nazis? Not Finkelstein's.
The audience, the one he said is nuts.

[Nolan]

The audience, the one he said is nuts.

That doesn't make any sense.

[bricolage]

I think it's entirely distateful to say people, especially Jews, should 'get over the holocaust' or 'forget about it'. I'm more of the opinion that memory of the Holocaust means Jews (and others) have a double obligation to oppose genocide/ethnic cleansing wherever and whenever it may be occuring and of course this would apply to Palestine at the moment.

[Barry Lyndon]

This guy used to be a professor at the college I go to. Iv'e read most of his books. Great man, met him a few times. Outside pressure got him kicked out, its a goddamn shame.

As weird as it is, this girl is probably genuine. Supporters of Israel in the United States/Canada are so insulated from criticism that they get quite emotional, almost in a frenzy, whenever they hear harsh criticism of Israel's policies. It's probably particularly hard to hear it from the mouth of a Jew whose parents were in the Nazi extermination camps, as its impossible to dismiss him as an anti-Semite, although some people comically try.

Our wider society encourages this because it's so convenient to focus on the Holocaust and make it the standard for all human evil, lets not talk about our own history of enslaving blacks and slaughtering Native Americans.

[No pasarán]

This guy used to be a professor at the college I go to. Iv'e read most of his books. Great man, met him a few times. Outside pressure got him kicked out, its a goddamn shame.

As weird as it is, this girl is probably genuine. Supporters of Israel in the United States/Canada are so insulated from criticism that they get quite emotional, almost in a frenzy, whenever they hear harsh criticism of Israel's policies. It's probably particularly hard to hear it from the mouth of a Jew whose parents were in the Nazi extermination camps, as its impossible to dismiss him as an anti-Semite, although some people comically try.

Our wider society encourages this because it's so convenient to focus on the Holocaust and make it the standard for all human evil, lets not talk about our own history of enslaving blacks and slaughtering Native Americans.

Almost exactly what I would have said.

[Robocommie]

Our wider society encourages this because it's so convenient to focus on the Holocaust and make it the standard for all human evil, lets not talk about our own history of enslaving blacks and slaughtering Native Americans.

I've run into this a few times. I was having an argument over the American policy towards Native Americans and whether or not it constituted ethnic cleansing, and I made a comparison to the Holocaust. A Jewish girl in the conversation spoke up and asked me not to mention the Holocaust because it was just so awful it made her uncomfortable. I told her I was sorry if I made her uncomfortable, but asked her how she supposed it made me feel to hear people diminish the horror of the Indian Wars? She didn't respond.

[Invincible Summer]

Ease up a bit bro, you want to be careful about the kind of language you use. The "whiny Jew" has often served as a harshly racist stereotype. I'm not saying you're anti-Semitic, I'm just saying you want to be careful about the language you use, because it can misrepresent your views.

But honestly, in defense of the Jewish reaction to the Holocaust, a thing like that can't help but affect people for a long time. Consider Norman Finkelstein himself - he's only 56, yet both his parents were in death camps, and his father's entire family had been murdered by the Nazis. The children of his generation would be college aged or teenagers, and that means that there's still a very wide demographic that was personally affected by the Holocaust, or who is personally attached to the someone who was, like a father or grandfather that they love and care for. As well, people oftentimes share these stories, they have family photos and scrapbooks that have pictures taken from before WWII, of people who were murdered or starved to death because of the Nazi's brutality. Likewise, families have heirlooms, like wedding rings or wedding dresses or the special tablecloths used for Passover suppers, which they oftentimes smuggled out to prevent destruction or theft by the Nazis, and they serve as a reminder of just how much was lost. Similarly, synagogues often have ancient Torahs which had been smuggled out, or heirloom prayer shawls, so on and so forth.

I don't think it's particularly helpful to give them grief over being upset by the Holocaust, because that's no more helpful, kind or empathetic than being upset at African-Americans over slavery or at Armenians over the genocide committed against them in Turkey. They have a right to their anger and their grief.

Rather our criticism should be the exact same type displayed by Norman Finkelstein here himself - that the Holocaust should never be used as political weapon of oppression, like it is in Palestine. We should never humor the kind of language that would seek to capitalize on the horror and suffering of the Holocaust for latter day political purposes, like for example, pointing out Israel's strategic situation in being surrounded by Arab states and calling it a "Holocaust waiting to happen."

We have more than enough of a righteous cause to argue against that kind of Zionist waving of the bloody shirt, and more than enough of a moral high ground to defend Palestinians against invocations of the Holocaust, without having to dispossess people of their family history.



I think it's entirely distateful to say people, especially Jews, should 'get over the holocaust' or 'forget about it'. I'm more of the opinion that memory of the Holocaust means Jews (and others) have a double obligation to oppose genocide/ethnic cleansing wherever and whenever it may be occuring and of course this would apply to Palestine at the moment.

You guys are right. I was out of line. I've just been having a hard time lately and this stuff just pushed me over the edge. I just hate seeing people who are in the position of the oppressor trying to play the victim. In general, I also don't really like it when people dwell on the past so much (not a really progressive view I know), and it doesn't help that in my past I used to be anti-semitic. I suppose some of it is still buried in me subconsciously, which is sort of disturbing. I guess in my anger I sort of mixed it all together and yeah. It turned out messy. I apologize to anyone whom I may have offended.

[Ztrain]

capitialism is counter revolutionary,capitilismo is a worse authority than government beacause at least we pay for that!

[9]

oh yeah, the holocaust, really funny

Almost as funny as the way the Holocaust is used by some capitalist states and their lackeys in academia to justify ethnic cleansing and capitalism as a whole, and to showcase the progressive qualities of imperialism, yes? :rolleyes:

At a certain point, all the fake hypersensitivity really just becomes nauseating.

[Q]

That girl got pwned, epicly.

[Chambered Word]

At a certain point, all the fake hypersensitivity really just becomes nauseating.

As horrific as the Holocaust was, I really cannot understand why somebody would start crying because someone simply made a comparison between the Holocaust and Israeli apartheid.

[cb9's_unity]

I've never heard of the guy in that video, however after watching it I'm certainly going to look into him.

[Honggweilo]

No he said "The Jews did not take up arms against the Germans!" Presumably he's implying the Palestinians should not take up arms against Israel.
Hagana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah) anyone?