Fidel Castro applauds US health-care reform bill

[the last donut of the night]

An interesting article from AP:


Cuban revolutionary leader Fidel Castro on Thursday declared passage of American health care reform "a miracle" and a major victory for Obama's presidency, but couldn't help chide the United States for taking so long to enact what communist Cuba achieved decades ago.


The article can be found here. (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Cuban-leader-applauds-US-apf-124808403.html?x=0&.v=1)

Opinions?

[RadioRaheem84]

Oh Gosh. This is going to stir up the right wing tea baggers so much! They're going to think we're on the "path to socialism"!

Way to go Castro. If you had read the bill you would've known that it's nothing even close to universal health care.

[Glenn Beck]

Way to go Castro. If you had read the bill you would've known that it's nothing even close to universal health care.

He won't let that get in the way of an epic troll :lol:

[FreeFocus]

lol GB :lol:

But on a serious note, it's not even close to universal health care, so yeah. It's not what Cuba achieved at all.

[The Red Next Door]

Castro have a znet page, we can send him a message about it, and tell him, how much he is mistaken.

[red cat]

What if Castro was always fully aware of it?

I am not asserting anything. Just asking. :)

[Nolan]

He won't let that get in the way of an epic troll :lol:

This. He knows full well what the bill contains he's just stirring the tea party up.

[Pjotr]

What if Castro was always fully aware of it?

I am not asserting anything. Just asking. :)
Not that I know Castro personally, but he is smart enough to be fully aware of it. :p

Still, it is a progress. A very small progress, but it's something.

[~Spectre]

Yeah, co-sign with the sentiment that says he has to be trolling, otherwise he's just flatly misinformed.


Doesn't he have a big TV that he keeps tuned to news networks? Part of me can picture him getting a Fox news satellite feed and lolling it up at the reaction to his words.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Here's the actual article penned by Fidel: http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2010/marzo/juev25/Reflections-24march.html

Here's some of what he said:

"BARACK Obama is a fanatical believer in the imperialist capitalist system imposed by the United States on the world. 'God bless the United States,' he ends his speeches....

"The current administration’s militarist policies, its plunder of natural resources and unequal exchange with the poor countries of the Third World are in no way different from those of its predecessors, almost all of them extremely right-wing, with some exceptions, throughout the past century....

"It would be interminable to list the contradictions between the ideas which the Cuban nation has defended at great sacrifice for half a century and the egotistic policies of that colossal empire....

"In spite of that, we harbor no antagonism toward Obama, much less toward the U.S. people. We believe that the health reform has been an important battle, and a success of his government. It would seem, however, to be something truly unusual, 234 years after the Declaration of Independence in Philadelphia in 1776, inspired by the ideas of the French encyclopedists, that the U.S. government has passed [a law for] medical attention for the vast majority of its citizens, something that Cuba achieved for its entire population half a century ago, despite the cruel and inhumane blockade imposed and still in effect by the most powerful country that ever existed. Before that, after almost half a century of independence and after a bloody war, Abraham Lincoln was able to attain legal freedom for slaves...."

[RedScare]

This has to be trolling of the first degree, it's awesome.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

:thumbup1:

In other news: south Korean officials report that Kim Jong-Il may die within the next three years (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iURO8fOyWVOA0ytFlaAGuC9F7R9wD9EM2DR00)... though the report doesn't mention that this is also the case for every other living person on earth.

[The Vegan Marxist]

:thumbup1:

In other news: south Korean officials report that Kim Jong-Il may die within the next three years (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iURO8fOyWVOA0ytFlaAGuC9F7R9wD9EM2DR00)... though the report doesn't mention that this is also the case for every other living person on earth.

I don't like North Korea much, but I have to admit, once Kim is out then the country will fall to shit & will more than likely become another U.S. occupied territory. Though, we can only blame Kim for keeping it as unstable as it is.

[Tatarin]

Though, we can only blame Kim for keeping it as unstable as it is.

That can be blamed on a lot of factors, such as how Kim got these ideas he has in the first place, or Chinas reverse to capitalism, or the collapse of the USSR, and so on.

In parallel, would the United States be a much better place had JFK survived the assassination? :)

[Chambered Word]

ITT: Stalinists get nervous and declare Castro a troll. :rolleyes:

[red cat]

^
See the difference between Stalinist and Trotskyist trolling ? You lot are pathetic in trolling too.

[Jacobinist]

Why would Fidel applaud an 'Reform' bill that will mandate Americans purchase privatized-for-profit health insurance?

* ON EDIT

Ok I read the article, and Fidel doesn't really come out in support of it. He kinds sets up the US to look far behind Cuba, since Cuba had achieved universal coverage about 40 years ago. Awesome article, I love Fidel's Reflections.

[Robocommie]

Castro have a znet page, we can send him a message about it, and tell him, how much he is mistaken.

Dude, can we send fan mail to Castro?

[The Red Next Door]

Dude, can we send fan mail to Castro?
maybe?

[Nolan]

ITT: Stalinists get nervous and declare Castro a troll. :rolleyes:

And the Trotskyist uses the opportunity to take a pathetic potshot at Cuba.

[Das war einmal]

ITT: Stalinists get nervous and declare Castro a troll. :rolleyes:


Yes I really shit in my boots atm. Oh no there goes the reputation of Fidel Castro! Even if he means it he has done more for the sake of humanity then all trotskyists put together.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah, co-sign with the sentiment that says he has to be trolling, otherwise he's just flatly misinformed.


Doesn't he have a big TV that he keeps tuned to news networks? Part of me can picture him getting a Fox news satellite feed and lolling it up at the reaction to his words.

The experimental Soviet device copied from the original schematic for Lenin's tomb that Castro sits in to keep him alive beams news broadcasts from around the world directly into the aged dignitaries' brain.

The machine is powered by pure spite, requiring him to produce public commentary containing bitter sarcasm directed towards the United States in order to keep himself alive, so that he may outlive yet another presidency.

[Red Commissar]

Castro's getting really senile in his old age.

[Jacobinist]

Odd, nobody defends Kimmy boy? You would thinik somebody would.

Anyways, I came acroos this today, and thought Id share it.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/TheUniblogger/23h9636.jpg

[Jacobinist]

Not really, maybe a bit softer, but most def. Castro is not senile. He's actually quite sane, and I expect Cuba to soon follow the way of our kapitalist comrades in China. Apparently Fidel is among the first to figure out that in a short 10-20 years, you wont need the US at all to effectively run a country. China has 4x's the population of the US, and thus 4x's the consuming power. Apparently Cubans are good at math.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qFBGyY-0KLU/SSQNJDU43kI/AAAAAAAAByQ/GKSCGqZGN0k/s400/Cuba-China+Trade.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/206/484586846_0e0b11f50a.jpg

http://www.havanatimes.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/cuba-and-china-flags.jpg

[Robocommie]

Not really, maybe a bit softer, but most def. Castro is not senile. He's actually quite sane, and I expect Cuba to soon follow the way of our kapitalist comrades in China. Apparently Fidel is among the first to figure out that in a short 10-20 years, you wont need the US at all to effectively run a country. China has 4x's the population of the US, and thus 4x's the consuming power. Apparently Cubans are good at math.

Yeah, what an asshole that Castro is for trying to find someone to buy Cuban goods so they can bring developmental income into the country.

[Jacobinist]

"Yeah, what an asshole that Castro is for trying to find someone to buy Cuban goods so they can bring developmental income into the country.' - Robo

Thats not what I said. i simply said Cuba has gone from dependence on the USSR, to being partly independent, and that in the future, the US embargo will be irrelevant because Fidel has figured out a way around it.

I like Fidel, no sarcasm intended.

[FSL]

Oh Gosh. This is going to stir up the right wing tea baggers so much! They're going to think we're on the "path to socialism"!

Way to go Castro. If you had read the bill you would've known that it's nothing even close to universal health care.


It's called irony. It's good.

[Robocommie]

"Yeah, what an asshole that Castro is for trying to find someone to buy Cuban goods so they can bring developmental income into the country.' - Robo

Thats not what I said. i simply said Cuba has gone from dependence on the USSR, to being partly independent, and that in the future, the US embargo will be irrelevant because Fidel has figured out a way around it.

I like Fidel, no sarcasm intended.

When you said it looked like Cuba would soon follow the way of the "kapitalists" in China, I assumed you meant that Fidel was pushing Cuba towards liberalization.

[Chambered Word]

Yes I really shit in my boots atm. Oh no there goes the reputation of Fidel Castro! Even if he means it he has done more for the sake of humanity then all trotskyists put together.

That wasn't the point. See below.


And the Trotskyist uses the opportunity to take a pathetic potshot at Cuba.

Comrade, I think if you look through this thread Trots haven't been criticizing Cuba in this thread.

It's just interesting that instead of saying 'I guess Castro's wrong about this' or making some kind of constructive commentary, you all start pulling at your collars and say 'LOL HE'S TROLLING' as if you seriously think the leader of the only real Marxist-Leninist country on earth would be more concerned with real-life trolling than making serious reflections on important issues.


^
See the difference between Stalinist and Trotskyist trolling ? You lot are pathetic in trolling too.

Don't get me started on your posts on Trotskyism, red cat. You've already lost any respect or regard I may have had for your silly opinions. :rolleyes:

JUST SHOW ME ONE FUCKING TROT REVARLUSHUN etc.

[Nolan]

Comrade, I think if you look through this thread Trots haven't been criticizing Cuba in this thread.

It's just interesting that instead of saying 'I guess Castro's wrong about this' or making some kind of constructive commentary, you all start pulling at your collars and say 'LOL HE'S TROLLING' as if you seriously think the leader of the only real Marxist-Leninist country on earth would be more concerned with real-life trolling than making serious reflections on important issues.


So you get to decide what's constructive?

I don't know why you'd think Castro would actually approve of this bill. The only logical answer is that he's only half serious if that, and worded his reflection to rile the American right. That would be trolling.

[Chambered Word]

So you get to decide what's constructive?

If we can all agree that 'lol nice trollan castro dude' is really constructive then I guess I'll leave you guys to it then. :lol:


I don't know why you'd think Castro would actually approve of this bill. The only logical answer is that he's only half serious if that, and worded his reflection to rile the American right. That would be trolling.

Ask Castro. His words don't come out of my mouth. In his position, trying to rile up the American right isn't going to help advance socialism in America. It's only going to create more frothing-at-the-mouth idiots forcing their agenda.

[Nolan]

If we can all agree that 'lol nice trollan castro dude' is really constructive then I guess I'll leave you guys to it then. :lol:

Well what is it then? Obama isn't fooling anyone, least of all Castro.


Ask Castro. His words don't come out of my mouth. In his position, trying to rile up the American right isn't going to help advance socialism in America. It's only going to create more frothing-at-the-mouth idiots forcing their agenda.

He probably thinks America is a lost cause. That's not too unreasonable of a position to hold unfortunately...

[Chambered Word]

Well what is it then? Obama isn't fooling anyone, least of all Castro.

Like I said, if you want to know then doing some research and possibly sending Castro a message would help you more than just declaring him a troll and having a good ol' laugh about it.


He probably thinks America is a lost cause. That's not too unreasonable of a position to hold unfortunately...

That would be very socialist of him, giving up on the proletariat. It's not like communist ideas never had a platform in America.

Incase you missed my entire point: stop worshipping Castro. He's fallible just like every other human being.

[Nolan]

Like I said, if you want to know then doing some research and possibly sending Castro a message would help you more than just declaring him a troll and having a good ol' laugh about it.

I'm not "having a good ol' laugh about it." Trolling or what amounts to the real life equivalent is the only possibility that makes sense. I don't think he said what you think he said anyhow.


That would be very socialist of him, giving up on the proletariat. It's not like communist ideas never had a platform in America.

This isn't the time of Debs. We're extremely unpopular in America, our major parties are all reformist, and the revolutionary left is painfully small and a horrible fucking mess. As it stands at the moment, socialist revolution in America has about the same chance as a snowball in hell. I don't know about Australia, but I can certainly speak for America, and Appalachia in particular.


Incase you missed my entire point: stop worshipping Castro. He's fallible just like every other human being.

Hi there, I don't worship Castro as some kind of demi-god, contrary to popular belief.

[Chambered Word]

I'm not "having a good ol' laugh about it." Trolling or what amounts to the real life equivalent is the only possibility that makes sense. I don't think he said what you think he said anyhow.

I thought I had pointed out that Fidel Castro, leader of Cuba, is not likely to just be 'trolling'. But I won't judge Castro for it if he is. :lol:


This isn't the time of Debs. We're extremely unpopular in America, our major parties are all reformist, and the revolutionary left is painfully small and a horrible fucking mess. As it stands at the moment, socialist revolution in America has about the same chance as a snowball in hell. I don't know about Australia, but I can certainly speak for America, and Appalachia in particular.

I realize this, but times change. Acting like idiots won't help us dig ourselves out of the hole we're in though.

It's better in Australia, but not by a whole lot. Perth is a pretty apathetic place in particular. At least most people don't hate you with a passion for being a communist.


Hi there, I don't worship Castro as some kind of demi-god, contrary to popular belief.

Sure hope not...:blink:

[Robocommie]

This isn't the time of Debs. We're extremely unpopular in America, our major parties are all reformist, and the revolutionary left is painfully small and a horrible fucking mess. As it stands at the moment, socialist revolution in America has about the same chance as a snowball in hell. I don't know about Australia, but I can certainly speak for America, and Appalachia in particular.

This is sadly true. Socialism in the US is not nearly as strong as it was in Debs time, nor even as strong as in the '60s.

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

Why would Fidel applaud an 'Reform' bill that will mandate Americans purchase privatized-for-profit health insurance?

* ON EDIT

Ok I read the article, and Fidel doesn't really come out in support of it. He kinds sets up the US to look far behind Cuba, since Cuba had achieved universal coverage about 40 years ago. Awesome article, I love Fidel's Reflections.


What he is saying in a round about way is what alot of desparate people are saying, "a half a loaf is better than none".or he truely doesn't know what is in the bill.

[Jacobinist]

"What he is saying in a round about way is what alot of desparate people are saying, "a half a loaf is better than none".or he truely doesn't know what is in the bill" - LETS

Well if you read the bill, Fidel never comes out in direct support of the bill.

FROM DAS ARTICLE:
It would seem, however, to be something truly unusual, 234 years after the Declaration of Independence in Philadelphia in 1776, inspired by the ideas of the French encyclopedists, that the U.S. government has passed [a law for] medical attention for the vast majority of its citizens, something that Cuba achieved for its entire population half a century ago, despite the cruel and inhumane blockade imposed and still in effect by the most powerful country that ever existed. - FIDEL

In the rest of the article, Fidel speaks of several components of the US empire, and how its crumbling, slowly. Its a must read and one of his better Reflections:
http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2010/marzo/juev25/Reflections-24march.html

[red cat]

Don't get me started on your posts on Trotskyism, red cat. You've already lost any respect or regard I may have had for your silly opinions. :rolleyes:

Being respected by a Trot who opposes our revolutions would definitely be a negative-point for me.




JUST SHOW ME ONE FUCKING TROT REVARLUSHUN etc.

Sorry, I can't. There is none.

[Raightning]

The US healthcare reform, even on liberal standards let alone leftist ones, is absolutely pathetic, and I doubt Castro disagrees to be quite honest. Even European centrists see the absurbity of for-profit healthcare itself as insane, let alone what Americans now have.

However, this seems to be fairly typical recent Bolivarian policy - support any step which is roughly in the correct direction and build a broad front with the working class in America and abroad even when they're moving as bloody haltingly as their pushes for HCR were (in my view primarily the fault of their 'leaders' in Washington, but is that not always the case with the left?)

Is it the right policy? There are definitely plus points to it, but it doesn't seem to help in any particularly substantial ways. Then again, though, what else could he say? He couldn't just stick his fingers in his ears and act like it didn't happen. He couldn't just condemn it, and alienate potential comrades in the US (not at the highest levels, of course, but on the ground). And, of course, he couldn't support the bill itself, because that would be bloody silly. Of the options, making a bunch of Tea Partiers angry is probably the best way forward, particularly given their missives about socialism don't even NEED things like Castro declaring this anyway - they'll just make whatever they need up!

Castro's not trolling, he's just taking what is perhaps the only appropriate line to take in this case. Although, given the result is we're seeing right-wingers declaring how "OBAMACARE WILL TURN OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM INTO CUBA'S", the comedy value is about the same.

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

Being respected by a Trot who opposes our revolutions would definitely be a negative-point for me.




Sorry, I can't. There is none.




Here we go, the same ol' crap, Trots vs stalinists. it never stops. your not a revolutionary,no, your not a revolutionary. I've heard it all before.

[Robocommie]

Being respected by a Trot who opposes our revolutions would definitely be a negative-point for me.

God-damnit, knock it off.

[zimmerwald1915]

Here we go, the same ol' crap, Trots vs stalinists. it never stops. your not a revolutionary,no, your not a revolutionary. I've heard it all before.
And what's funny is that they're both right :laugh:

[Jacobinist]

"Being respected by a Trot who opposes our revolutions would definitely be a negative-point for me." - RED

OH, and Im the spammer.

hehe.;)

[Nolan]

And what's funny is that they're both right :laugh:

Oh look, the third faction. You fuck off too.

Sarah Palin took the bait. :lol:

[Chambered Word]

Oh look, the third faction. You fuck off too.

You're capable of being more mature than this, mate.


Being respected by a Trot who opposes our revolutions would definitely be a negative-point for me.

When did I say this? As you have demonstrated, all you're good at is making logical fallacies and stupid generalizations. May I never have the displeasure of arguing with you again. :rolleyes:


Sorry, I can't. There is none.

Because as we all know Stalin was the brains behind the Russian Revolution.

Now that I've got that off my chest, can we prevent this from degenerating into yet another fucking tendency war? :(

[red cat]

You're capable of being more mature than this, mate.



When did I say this? As you have demonstrated, all you're good at is making logical fallacies and stupid generalizations. May I never have the displeasure of arguing with you again. :rolleyes:



Because as we all know Stalin was the brains behind the Russian Revolution.

No, the brains were the countless comrades led by Lenin and the proletariat as a whole.




Now that I've got that off my chest, can we prevent this from degenerating into yet another fucking tendency war? :(

Of course. As soon as you stop ridiculing Castro's anti-America line. Maoists identify Castro as a revisionist, but if you attack in any way the progressive work he does then I have no option but to remind you of the practical contribution of Trots in class struggle in any country so far.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Yes I really shit in my boots atm. Oh no there goes the reputation of Fidel Castro! Even if he means it he has done more for the sake of humanity then all trotskyists put together.

Ah just stop being pathetic.

Keep that sort of petty crap to inboxes. This is a public forum and people can come and see this sectarian rubbish that you and the trotskyists post daily.:rolleyes:

[Delenda Carthago]

Castro is an agent provocateur!!:D