Jobs that exist only under capitalism?

[AK]

What sort (and how many) of jobs are there today that rely on the capitalist system and the free market to exist (excluding Bourgeois positions such as CEOs, Executives, members of the board, etc. - any I missed?)?

I was thinking because these jobs would not exist under communism (and socialism for that matter) so what would happen to these workers?

[¿Que?]

No government, no government bureaucracy. That means, lots more people on the farms and in the factories. That means, higher production, shorter hours. More free time to get on revleft! Hurray!

[The Vegan Marxist]

I wouldn't mind seeing places like Wal-Mart leaving & replace them with a flurry of small collective businesses :thumbup1:

[danyboy27]

No government, no government bureaucracy. That means, lots more people on the farms and in the factories. That means, higher production, shorter hours. More free time to get on revleft! Hurray!
bureaucrats are something that will remain, what will change is that its gonna be possible to control and vote for them.

[piet11111]

hopefully soldiers if we do it right.

[CartCollector]

Well since there will no incentive to encourage people to consume more than they want (which creates more work) there will be no more need for advertising. So there won't be any advertising jobs.

[La Comédie Noire]

A lot of the service industry jobs will disappear, people will still cook, but they won't degrade themselves by dressing up in a little uniform and serving it to you on a tray.

[jake williams]

There are all kinds of jobs that will just profoundly change character under socialism/communism, it's pretty naive to assume that everything connected to capitalist business is gonna disappear, because right now that's almost the whole economy.

I'm sorry, but if we want to have something other than a self-destructive (with 7 billion people) subsistence economy, we're going to have to have a pretty complex planned economy, which is going to take a lot of intellectual labour. It'll be distributed and controlled totally differently than under capitalism, but it'll be work that will have to be done. If by "bureaucracy", you mean the original sense, where the society is run by a "bureaucratic class", then we don't want to have that. But people use the term "bureaucracy" in a lot of cases to refer to any sort of office/planning/intellectual work, and that just can't and shouldn't be gotten rid of.

A lot of what under capitalism takes the character of "marketing" will under a socialist society, in a very different form, have to be taken up by some sort of economic planning apparatus, to determine what sort of consumer goods people want and need. I think that's a valuable service and something a society would generally feel comfortable collectively supporting. Especially in the short term, a lot of work will have to be done just to clean up the disasters that capitalism has left with us - to the natural environment, within our own societies, building liveable homes for people, there will be lots to do for a long time.

At any rate, it's ridiculous to talk about a need to "create jobs" under socialism. If people are doing enough work to provide everything we need/want - which will take awhile - then we work less. The problem in a sane society (which capitalism is not) isn't finding more work to do, but being more productive with it to get more out of it and have more leisure time - that's one of the stranger degeneracies of capitalism.

[ElectricSheep1203]

what about banks? the way i see it there'd be no need for currency in proper communism, and no currency means no need for banks.


Just tossing this one out for discussion, what would happen to industries like Movies and Music?

[jake williams]

what about banks? the way i see it there'd be no need for currency in proper communism, and no currency means no need for banks.
I think that's a good example. The thing a lot of people need to understand is that a lot of what banks do is effectively economic planning - the management of the means of production. The thing is, they do it in the interests of profits for capitalists, not in the interests of most people. But it's still work.

[Plagueround]

Right wing radio host.

[Chimurenga.]

Pornography

[Plagueround]

Pornography

I imagine you might still see pornography, but not in the exploitative and degrading manner it exists in now. There are plenty of consenting adults out there that might enjoy performing.

[Outinleftfield]

Banker, prostitute(no money means no sex(or anything) for money), pimp, stockbrocker, CEO, CFO, landlord, politician, tax agent, bureaucrat, soldier, police officer, prison guard, warden, principal, president (company or government), dean, parole officer, pornography (not really a job once the only porn is being done for fun and not as work).

Ultimately I'd like to see jobs go out of existance entirely. Instead people know you are good at something and know something has to be done so they ask you to do it and you can say yes or no and saying yes and doing it will help your reputation in the community. Things getting done purely spontaneously with informal, mutual cooperation. And also a great deal could be automated when programming technology reaches a certain level, maybe even every huge task and that's probably when we'll get to this point. But were a long ways away from that.

[Weezer]

Pornography

I hope not!

[robbo203]

What sort (and how many) of jobs are there today that rely on the capitalist system and the free market to exist (excluding Bourgeois positions such as CEOs, Executives, members of the board, etc. - any I missed?)?

I was thinking because these jobs would not exist under communism (and socialism for that matter) so what would happen to these workers?


Capitalism is not confined to the free market and some of us would maintain that socialism and communism amount to the same thing as per tradtional marxian usage i.e. they are synonyms.

That said there are a huge variety that jobs that exist in capitalism that would disappear in socialism/communism. Everything to do with money or monetary accounting for a start - from banking to cash tills to pay departments. Everything to do with the state would also go in a moneyless stateless commonwealth.

Arguably, and by even the most conservative estimate, at least half of all the economic activity carried on today would cease since it produces nothing that is socially useful but is merely to oil the wheels of capitalist commerce. This huge amount of wasted labour power and material resources can then be diverted into massively increasing the production of socially useful wealth to the benefit of everyone

[Dr Mindbender]

Basically everything in the financial and banking sector would be gone;

as well as the parasitic industries like insurance, debt collection etc.

Hopefully all forms of menial work will also become redundant if we successfully and correctly transfer to a high energy society.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Telemarketers, corporate buyers, company reps (who go to stores and try and sell them this or that brand of cola over another), freeway sign-holders, migrant field work, sweatshop work, valets, personal drivers, janitors (people who only do this), sheriffs, cops, debt collection agencies, landlords, appartment managers, border guards, ICE agents, FBI, CIA. Also most shit-work because workers simply won't want to do it and will be motivated to find or develop other ways to accomplish some necessary but unpleasant work.

[Misanthrope]

Most notably, the capitalist will not exist.

[robbo203]

Here's something from an old SPGB pamphlet (1986)
From Capitalism to Socialism . . . how we live and how we could live (http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/pdf/fcts.pdf)
which, incidentally. is still quite a good read....

Check it out


PRODUCTS CONCERNED WITH MONEY


account books and computer
files
armoured vehicles
bankbooks
bank notes
bankstatements
bills
billfolds
books on finance
cash cards
cashpoints
cash registers
change machines
cheques
cheque cards
coin boxes
deposit and withdrawal slips
excise and duty stamps
football coupons
gambling machines
guarantees
insurance certificates
insurance policies
invoices
licences for:
export & import
marriage
motorvehicles
selling alcohol
firearms
tobacco
television sets
meters for:
electricity
gas
parking
telephones
water
money orders and postal orders
mortgage agreements
night safes
overdrafts
overtime payments
parking tickets
pension books
postage stamps
raffle tickets
rates demands
receipts
rents and rent books
safes
saving certificates
share certificates
slot machines
stock markets
strong rooms
tax returns:
income tax
corporation tax
VAT
tickets for:
buses
cinemas
theatres
trains etc
ticket offices
ticket machines
travellers' cheques
turnstiles
TV give-away shows
wage packets
wages slips
wallets
wills


MONEY OCCUPATIONS AND ORGANISATIONS


accountants
advertising agencies
auctioneers
auditors
banking
bailiffs
bookkeepers
bookmakers
building societies
buyers
capitalists
cashiers
casinos
charities
christmas clubs
consumer protection
credit card agencies
credit worthiness investigators
debt collectors
economists
estate agents
excise officers
financial advisers
finance houses
friendly societies
football pools fundraisers
grant awarding trusts
health finance schemes
hire purchase firms
holding companies
income tax officers
inspectors of weights and measures
insurance brokers
insurance companies
investment consultants
licensing officers
loan companies
luncheon voucher schemes
management consultants
market analysts
mints
money lenders
mortgage brokers
national health insurance
patents offices and copyright enforcement #
pension funds
post offices
public relations officers
raffles
rate-fixers for piecework
rates offices
receivers
rent collectors
salesmen and saleswomen
security firms
social security offices
stock brokers and jobbers
stock exchanges
superannuation schemes
tax consultants
ticket sellers, collectors and inspectors
totes
trade unions
treasurers
underwriters
unemployment benefit offices
unit trusts
valuers
wages clerks
work study engineers

[Psy]

I'd like to add Transit police, their primary task is to protect transit property and enforce bylaws relative to the transit company for example preventing graffiti on their property and fare dodges.

With no fares there would be no fare dodgers, and with less alienation from the products of society there would more respect to the fixed capital of transit soviets and workers themselves would take the initiative to educate vandals they are making extra work for workers.

Preventing people hopping freight trains also would no longer be a issue as most people that would hop on fright trains would be railway workers that know what they are doing or people looking for adventure.

[A.J.]

what about banks? the way i see it there'd be no need for currency in proper communism, and no currency means no need for banks.


Not just banks but the entire financial services sector will be rendered superfluous.