Marxists get 25% in Italian Communist Party Youth Wing!

[lipmeister]

In February the national conference of the Italian Young Communists (GC), the youth wing of the PRC, met to discuss two counterposed political documents, one presented by the Marxist tendency and the other by all the other currents who came together as one block. The Marxists emerged far stronger than they have ever been and are now a respected current within the youth, one that has shown in practice that it knows how to build the party with correct Marxists ideas.

marxist(.)com/italy-young-communists-national-conference.htm

[Tablo]

I thought most parties that identify as Communist are of some Marxist tendency to begin with... how s this a big deal?

[Q]

I thought most parties that identify as Communist are of some Marxist tendency to begin with... how s this a big deal?
You got confused by Woods-speak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Woods_%28politician%29). What lipmeister meant is that the Italian IMT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Marxist_Tendency) section got a good result.

[Tablo]

You got confused by Woods-speak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Woods_%28politician%29). What lipmeister meant is that the Italian IMT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Marxist_Tendency) section got a good result.
Oh, thank you for clarifying.

[MELT]

You got confused by Woods-speak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Woods_%28politician%29). What lipmeister meant is that the Italian IMT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Marxist_Tendency) section got a good result.


The reality is that the Communist Refoundation Party in Italy is really social democratic. If you read the article they talk of coalitions with the bourgeois democratic party!! This is why 25% in this party shows a real growth in interest in the ideas of genuine communism within the youth of the Party and is a step forward for the Marxists.

[Sam_b]

If you read the article they talk of coalitions with the bourgeois democratic party!!

This is the same tendency that supports working within the British Labour Party.

[lipmeister]

This is the same tendency that supports woring within the British Labour Party.

It's the majority that supports a coalition with the bourgeois Democratic Party in Italy not the Marxist Tendency! You misunderstood...

And yes the Labour Party is the traditional party of the workers in Britain. When it loses the election this year it is bound to have a crisis and a massive shift in the left. Outside Labour there is nothing.

[Sam_b]

It's the majority that supports a coalition with the bourgeois Democratic Party in Italy not the Marxist Tendency! You misunderstood...

No, you misunderstand. The same tendency that is criticising the 'bourgeois democratic party' support entryism within the bourgeois Labour Party. A party which has effectively shed every remnance of a workers party. This 'shift to the left' has been something preached by IMT bot faithful for years now, but has never materialised. I am not to believe it now. So as it stands, the party supports entryism in a party which sells out the class, bails out multinationals on worker's money, pursues imperialist war and promotes a racist immigration and asylum policy.

[lipmeister]

No, you misunderstand. The same tendency that is criticising the 'bourgeois democratic party' support entryism within the bourgeois Labour Party. A party which has effectively shed every remnance of a workers party. This 'shift to the left' has been something preached by IMT bot faithful for years now, but has never materialised. I am not to believe it now. So as it stands, the party supports entryism in a party which sells out the class, bails out multinationals on worker's money, pursues imperialist war and promotes a racist immigration and asylum policy.

A coalition with the Democratic Party in Italy and the subordination to a popular front is hardly comparable with entrism in Labour with the purpose of attacking New Labour and the right wing. There's a qualitative difference between Labour and the bourgeois Democratic party. One is a workers party organicaly connected to the unions with a right wing leadership and the other is a bourgeois party.

Labour will inevitably enter into crisis once it loses the election and the right wing will be ousted (or leave by itself and get comfortable corporate excecutive jobs). I think there is no point for me to try to convince the already converted, so I'll leave it at that. The theory of the marxists will be vindicated by events.

[Q]

The theory of the marxists will be vindicated by events.

Would you mind and stop using Woods-speak? It is confusing many people.

[vyborg]

Would you mind and stop using Woods-speak? It is confusing many people.

Before Taaffe decided the scottish turn..this is CWI-speak too, the speak of marxists

[Q]

Before Taaffe decided the scottish turn..this is CWI-speak too, the speak of marxists

In my experience CWI members generally don't place themselves on an arrogant pedestal, claiming to be the only true Marxist current available on Revleft.

[Q]

A note on the article. Percentages are all nice and dandy, but in absolute votes nothing much changed:

2006: 420 votes = 7,1%
2010: 494 votes = 24.53%

So, the IMT is alive and kicking, yet the young communists seem to be dead in the water? Could someone comment on that perhaps?

[vyborg]

I agree that to pretend to be the last and only true something is irrelevant.
But look at the problem concretely. Do you have some specific critic about the Rifondazione youth marxist document? or about the work made by the marxists in the Rifondazione youth?

[vyborg]

A note on the article. Percentages are all nice and dandy, but in absolute votes nothing much changed:

2006: 420 votes = 7,1%
2010: 494 votes = 24.53%

So, the IMT is alive and kicking, yet the young communists seem to be dead in the water? Could someone comment on that perhaps?

The vendola tendency left the party and even some other tendency...so you cannot compare the two numbers.

Anyway the political outcome is fairly easy: the party is in disarray, any tendency in it is crumbling but the marxists that are going forward even in this terrible situation

[Sam_b]

The arrogance of the IMT being 'the Marxists' is wearing thin.

[vyborg]

Do not be abstract. We are talking about rifondazione. Do you see marxist tendencies inside rifondazione a part Falce Martello?

[Q]

Do not be abstract. We are talking about rifondazione. Do you see marxist tendencies inside rifondazione a part Falce Martello?

Controcorrente (http://www.controcorrentesinistraprc.org/) is still active in the PRC last time I checked, undoubtedly there are other currents.

[vyborg]

Controcorrente are good guys..but...they are very few and active in 2-3 towns...anyway they voted the Falce Martello document. so they agreed completely with us.
As for other tendency I cant wait to know them...

[heiss93]

How can the Italian Democratic Party which is direct heir to the former Marxist-Leninist Italian Communist Party of the Third International, the Anti-fascist Resistance, Gramsci and Togliatti be called more rightwing than Tony Blair's Labour Party?

[vyborg]

Well it is...do not be fooled by names...in the 70s the LP was not more right wing than the PCI....on many issues the PCI was the more reactionary workers party in Europe...

Now they merged with Cristian democrats....

[Sam_b]

I'm sorry, but I still don't buy this idea of the Labour as a worker's party anymoe, I think the tactic is deluded.

[MELT]

I'm sorry, but I still don't buy this idea of the Labour as a worker's party anymoe, I think the tactic is deluded.

It's ok comrade, theory is what prevents revolutionaries from being astonished by events. When you see with astonishment in the next year the shift of Labour to the left following the electoral defeat and from pressure by its working class base and understand the dead-end of the SWP's tactics, then you know where to find us. Just go on socialist.net and contact us. Till then let us take our separate roads.

[Sam_b]

I love the arrogance of IMT-bots!

This 'shift to the left' is what the IMT have said about every electoral blip in the Labour Party since 1997, and has yet to materialise. Until then the tendency supports entryism into a fully-blown neoliberal, racist, capitalist political party which has sold out workers again and again: and no, not just since 1997.

There's no need for all this 'just go onto our website and see sense!' trickery either: I regularly buy Socialist Appeal and know all about the IMT's line which I, and lets face it most of the left, fundamentally disagree with.

[MELT]

I love the arrogance of IMT-bots!

This 'shift to the left' is what the IMT have said about every electoral blip in the Labour Party since 1997, and has yet to materialise. Until then the tendency supports entryism into a fully-blown neoliberal, racist, capitalist political party which has sold out workers again and again: and no, not just since 1997.

There's no need for all this 'just go onto our website and see sense!' trickery either: I regularly buy Socialist Appeal and know all about the IMT's line which I, and lets face it most of the left, fundamentally disagree with.

The perspective of a left shift of Labour was always tied with the change of the objective conditions and the intensification of the class struggle. We never said that there will be a left shift out of nowhere. Just like the objective conditions of the 90s (boom, collapse of USSR etc) brought Labour and other similar parties to the right, the change of objective conditions and intensification of the class struggle will bring it to the left, fill it up with workers and youth again and open massive opportunities for the marxists.

I never hid that Labour is a treacherous reformist party. But what is the answer? Leave the workers and youth which are going to fill the party in the mercy of reformism ?

As I said before theory is the only thing that can prevent you from being astonished by events. And this theory is not just any theory but marxist understanding. Only sectarians cannot, don't want and don't care to understand the perspectives of mass parties based on the working class like Labour.

And as you said most of the left disagrees with us. Precisely because most of the left is not marxist left, but is composed either of sectarian so called trotskyists, stalinists, reformists and petty bourgeois anarchists. We don't call ourselves the only genuine marxist tendency that has kept the traditions of bolshevism alive for no reason. And frankly we don't care about what most of the left has to say. Outside of the mass organization there is nothing. These gentlemen were nothing, are nothing and will continue to be nothing in the future.

PS: I don't think confidence to the ideas of marxism can be considered arrogance.

[Crux]

There's a qualitative difference between Labour and the bourgeois Democratic party. One is a workers party organicaly connected to the unions with a right wing leadership and the other is a bourgeois party.

No. The difference is in the IMT's tactic, you are just making an ad hoc rationalization. And yes, if I need to I can back that up in very concrete terms.

[Crux]

Outside of the mass organization there is nothing. These gentlemen were nothing, are nothing and will continue to be nothing in the future.
Please do tell me what's on the inside then. Also, you're an arrogant prick and your mechanic dogmatism is a vulgarization of marxism.

[Revy]

It's ok comrade, theory is what prevents revolutionaries from being astonished by events. When you see with astonishment in the next year the shift of Labour to the left following the electoral defeat and from pressure by its working class base and understand the dead-end of the SWP's tactics, then you know where to find us. Just go on socialist.net and contact us. Till then let us take our separate roads.

And I will certainly marvel at your ability to predict the future.:rolleyes:

You sound like the left version of proselytizing Jehovah's Witnesses...join our cause, the true Marxists....we will be proven right by next year, when Labour comes down from on high as our salvation, savior of the left!:laugh:

[Jacobinist]

Let us not get mad at our white comrades. They're blind themselves. Many cant see the 'white priviliege' that makes their life, a tad bit easier to endure. No, they usually find some how to justify any favorable action, Im sure we've all seen it. So again, lets be understanding, and patient, they'll come around to minority rights when they find themselves to be the minority in 2030.

http://www.stopthenorthamericanunion.com/DotsImages/MexicanFlagOverUpsideDownAmericanFlag.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x238/chingatumadre_06/we_are_taking_over.jpg

http://lighthousepatriotjournal.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/conquest-of-aztlan.jpg

* BTW IM AGAINST ANY FURTHER ARTIFICIAL DIVISIONS, BARRIERS OR WALLS. TAKE THIS AS SOME SATIRE. :cool:

[vyborg]

Please, come back to the point. Someone stated in rifondazione there are revolutionary tendencies. Unfortunately this is not so....apart from FalceMartello, the areas in the party are very much reformist and stalinist.

the final result (28%) is evry good. I think any comrade should be glad for this result, even if he doesnt belong to the IMT, as it is a clear indication of the strenght of revolutionary ideas in rifondazione, the biggest left party in Italy