Why is sleep necessary?

[Buffalo Souljah]

Empirical data seems to suggest that human beings cannot survive without it, but psychology stipulates that it is only to recover from traumatic experiences and an abundance of information that we require sleep. What is it about our human condition that necessitates this essentially cathartic state, in which we lose time which could otherwise be devoted to productive or creative activity? Could we imagine a form of consciousness which transcends the limitations of sleep? I am thinking here of machine intelligence and other artificial systems of this kind. What is so traumatic or overwhelming about reality that we need to spend hours in a catatonic state of paralysis, which sleep ultimately is? Are there chemical/anatomical/technological/etc developments that might be conceived of so we don't feel "tired" if we don't sleep for long periods?

[danyboy27]

i would sleep anyway.
i love sleeping.

[Bob George]

i love sleeping.

How do you know? You're asleep when it happens.

[danyboy27]

How do you know? You're asleep when it happens.

i love to be all confortable and warm, preparing myself to go to sleep, ejoying the comfort of my bed before falling alseep, i love waking up fresh in the morning.

its a pleasure for me.

[The Red Next Door]

So we can stay focus and our bodies will be healther.

[Outinleftfield]

Sleep also involves dreams which is really just a bunch of hallucinations caused by DMT, a brain chemical that is also a street drug. This happens in REM sleep and sleeping pills that only cause NREM still leave you tired in the morning. So being tired is just withdrawal from not getting your fix and hallucinogenic drugs aren't usually physically addictive because as long as you just go to sleep its similar enough for a fix.

So humans have to hallucinate in order to be healthy.

[danyboy27]

Sleep also involves dreams which is really just a bunch of hallucinations caused by DMT, a brain chemical that is also a street drug. This happens in REM sleep and sleeping pills that only cause NREM still leave you tired in the morning. So being tired is just withdrawal from not getting your fix and hallucinogenic drugs aren't usually physically addictive because as long as you just go to sleep its similar enough for a fix.

So humans have to hallucinate in order to be healthy.

i dont think its why we need to sleep.

being awake and conscious consume a lot of energy. Now and then, the human brain and body need to rest.

All annimals sleeps, its as matter of survival.

[Dr Mindbender]

its no coincidence that people who live well past 100 have all been regular sleepers.

The vital organs (especially brain) need sleep to rejuvenate.

[Morgenstern]

I'm sure you can walk for miles upon miles non stop but eventually you will get tired and need to compose yourself again. Sleep allows our body to compose itself, a time to temporarily slow down so that it can get some rest.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Why hasn't this been moved to Science?

[Outinleftfield]

i dont think its why we need to sleep.

being awake and conscious consume a lot of energy. Now and then, the human brain and body need to rest.

All annimals sleeps, its as matter of survival.

Which is why we also have NREM, in fact that's most of our sleep. But the fact remains sleeping pills that don't help REM sleep still leave you feeling tired and groggy in the morning. Also we wouldn't have dreams if they didn't fulfill some kind of evolutionary function and dreams are hallucinations, you are seeing and hearing things that aren't really there.

[Devrim]

Maybe the question should be looked at from completly the opposite angle. Why are we awake? Plants seem to do OK without consciousness or being 'awake'.
Devrim

[Outinleftfield]

Maybe the question should be looked at from completly the opposite angle. Why are we awake? Plants seem to do OK without consciousness or being 'awake'.
Devrim

We have to be able to get up and get food somehow.

Another question why hasn't there ever been a single plant to evolve consciousness and movement(by which I mean significant movement, actually getting up and walking)? Even if they don't need it to forage for food like animals wouldn't it be evolutionarily adaptive in order to escape predators?

[Dean]

Moved to Sciences & Enviro 03-30-10 Dean

[red cat]

Does the human activity cycle double its length in space ?

[mykittyhasaboner]

Well sleep is necessary, for all the reasons stated already. This doesn't mean it's a pleasurable experience for everyone. Some people have real trouble falling asleep, and some people experience terror while sleeping. For such reasons, I can't say I enjoy any part of the sleeping process. I have experienced insomnia many times over, and to this day I still can't fall a sleep unless I'm intoxicated or really, really, really, tired.

I despise dreaming (though this is for a separate discussion), and I have a lot of difficulty trying to go to sleep. Perhaps it's because of some other reasons: I have trouble clearing my mind, I can't lay still for very long, etc; but all I know is sleep is dreadful for me. If there was a way to replenish ones energy and rejuvenate vital organs without sleep then I would be the first one to try it. Perhaps some kind of drug or something...

[Devrim]

We have to be able to get up and get food somehow.

Plants don't move much and yet manage to find food.


Another question why hasn't there ever been a single plant to evolve consciousness and movement(by which I mean significant movement, actually getting up and walking)? Even if they don't need it to forage for food like animals wouldn't it be evolutionarily adaptive in order to escape predators?

Why is escaping 'predators' necessarily adaptive? It is if you are any animal, but if you are a plant and the 'predator' will spread your seeds becoming tastier could be a better adaptation.

Devrim

[AK]

Plants don't move much and yet manage to find food.
Now, see, the thing is, us humans, we don't have little roots sprouting from our toes to dig into the soil. Our skin doesn't exactly do photosynthesis, either.

[Devrim]

Now, see, the thing is, us humans, we don't have little roots sprouting from our toes to dig into the soil. Our skin doesn't exactly do photosynthesis, either.

No, but if you are asking about why we sleep, surely it is to do with the development of consciousness. If something has no consciousness then it is neither asleep or awake. So the mode of life that led to the development of consciousness is part of the question.

Devrim

[AK]

No, but if you are asking about why we sleep, surely it is to do with the development of consciousness. If something has no consciousness then it is neither asleep or awake. So the mode of life that led to the development of consciousness is part of the question.

Devrim
Consciousness is basically being aware of your surroundings, unconsciousness is not being aware of your surroundings (how the fuck do you react to stmuli such as loud noise when you're asleep then?) and the way I see it, lacking consciousness means just physically existing whilst your body tries to find energy. This mode of life you speak of might be something to do a competition between early plants for food - who knows?

[red cat]

Why is escaping 'predators' necessarily adaptive? It is if you are any animal, but if you are a plant and the 'predator' will spread your seeds becoming tastier could be a better adaptation.

Devrim

What you are talking about is an example of symbiotic relationship. However, in certain systems, some animals do not help the plant in this way and may destroy it. So the plant develops mechanical and chemical weapons to fight the predator.

[chegitz guevara]

All animals sleep, not just humans.

As best we can tell now, sleep is necessary because of the vast amount of data we take in from our senses. Our brains are like Hoovers, sucking in every sight, sound, taste, touch, and smell. We haven't even built computers yet which can come close to taking in as much data as the vertebrate brain. Our brains need time to process all of those experiences, figure out which ones to delete, which ones to strengthen, figure out what the experiences mean, etc.

Sleep also gives the body's regenerative processes a chance to work, which is why animals which lack sophisticated brains also need to sleep.

Interestingly, a very small number of people with brain injuries have lost the need/ability to sleep. As well, a compound has been discovered that reduces the body's physical need for sleep, though what such things do to long term memory are unknown at this point.

Also, different animals sleep different amounts. I'm sure part of it is related to reducing the amount of food the animal needs to eat. For example, cats sleep 2/3rds of the day, while humans in pre-industrial society, averaged about ten hours a day.

Personally, I'd like to give up sleep, but not at the cost of my memory.

[red cat]

All animals sleep, not just humans.




Bees do not exactly sleep.

[chegitz guevara]

I'll give a little bit of personal info. I have sleep apnea. For well over a decade it was untreated, and as I've gained weight, it's gotten worse. By 2006, I was becoming non-functional. I could barely remember anything which had happened recently, I was falling asleep without warning (I sat in front of my boss, whom I'd warned I had sleep apnea) I was falling asleep driving.

Sleep apnea is when the airways close while you are asleep, and so you wake up in order to breathe. At the end, I was waking up 200 times an hour, or about every 18 seconds. Because you are oxygen starved in this state, you can suffer brain damage, and I think I may have, as my memory is no longer what it once was.

Now I have a machine which raises the air pressure in my throat, so it stays open while I sleep. Immediately I began dreaming. I hadn't dreamed in so long I couldn't remember. Sleep was just a black hole of time. I'd fall asleep and then it seemed as if my alarm was going off.

Anyway, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep

And no, bees don't sleep, not in the way we understand it, but they do go into a period of dormancy.

[Devrim]

What you are talking about is an example of symbiotic relationship. However, in certain systems, some animals do not help the plant in this way and may destroy it. So the plant develops mechanical and chemical weapons to fight the predator.

Yes, I said 'could'. It does happen, but not always. Other plants as you say use chemical and mechanical weapons. Still others succeed by just being more resilient, and thrive over other plants by being able to grow back quicker after being eaten. My point is that plants react in ways differently than humans, and while to us getting up and running away, may seem logical, it may not be the best way for a plant to succeed in the evolutionary game.


All animals sleep, not just humans

Yet plants don't. Do bacteria?

Devrim

[red cat]

Yet plants don't. Do bacteria?

Devrim

Sleep has something to do with a well developed nervous system. Naturally organisms lacking that do not sleep.

[chegitz guevara]

Yet plants don't. Do bacteria?

Devrim

You'd have to have a really loose definition of sleep. Both plants and bacteria have periods of lowered activity, but I don't think you could call it sleep.

I should note that certain species of fish that school have not been observed to sleep (doesn't mean they don't) and cetacean infants under a month old do not sleep either.

And this thread makes me yawn.

[red cat]

Dolphins can have half of their brains sleeping at a time. :)

[bcbm]

Dolphins can have half of their brains sleeping at a time. :)

i think i usually do this at work

[red cat]

i think i usually do this at work :lol:

I used to do that earlier. Now I have upgraded from half to full. ;)

[Buffalo Souljah]

i dont think its why we need to sleep.

being awake and conscious consume a lot of energy. Now and then, the human brain and body need to rest.

All annimals sleeps, its as matter of survival.

But couldn't we just as well replenish what energy our bodies consume by increasing our caloric intake? It is interesting, because there are actually chemical receptors whose sole purpose it is to tell us we're "sleepy". I wonder if if we could inhibit these receptors, we could go longer periods--even years-- without sleeping? Just a thought... shit, I need sleep!


Well sleep is necessary, for all the reasons stated already. This doesn't mean it's a pleasurable experience for everyone. Some people have real trouble falling asleep, and some people experience terror while sleeping. For such reasons, I can't say I enjoy any part of the sleeping process. I have experienced insomnia many times over, and to this day I still can't fall a sleep unless I'm intoxicated or really, really, really, tired.

I despise dreaming (though this is for a separate discussion), and I have a lot of difficulty trying to go to sleep. Perhaps it's because of some other reasons: I have trouble clearing my mind, I can't lay still for very long, etc; but all I know is sleep is dreadful for me. If there was a way to replenish ones energy and rejuvenate vital organs without sleep then I would be the first one to try it. Perhaps some kind of drug or something...

mykitty,

Though I am not a doctor--nor do I wish to be one--I have some advice regarding your sleeping difficulties. I too suffered, at various points in my life, nervous tensions and other peripheral but nonetheless distracting "mindframes" which hindered and interfered with my sleep. I've tried various methods throughout the years to solve this--music, TV, OTC & prescription drugs and so on--and have to say, there are some options available to you (that don't include slowly eating away your liver. (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol))

For instance, many atypical anti-psychotics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atypical_antipsychotic) work to inhibit those neurotransmitters that most affect "peripheral thought trains", what are most commonly referred to as "psychotic" experiences. I know that may sound like throwing a wrench in the clockwork, but it can be an incredibly effective method to reconfigure your sleeping schedule and adjust to "normal" routines. However, I would advise you, were you to go down this road, to consider the lasting (and sometimes permanent) side effects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atypical_antipsychotic#Side_effects) that some of these drugs tend to lead to. These can also sometimes make you feel "different" so, with them, it's usually give and take. I would never recommend their use permanantly (because of this and because of the side effects I already mentioned)I would advise you firstly to look into case studies and read what past/current users of these drugs have to say before you start taking them.

There are less extreme measures that can be taken as well: melatonin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin) is a naturally occuring hormone-like compound that is found in humans as well as other animals, plants, etc. Its purposes include protecting DNA as well as regulating circadian rhythms (your daily routine)--in other words, it's what tells your body you're "tired". It can be taken as a dietary supplement and is available over-the-counter at most health food stores & pharmacies. Many people who travel often take melatonin supplements to help regulate their sleeping schedules and avoid jet lag.

Other similar organic and synthetical substances exist-- Kava Kava extract, Valerian root (both found in health food stores), Benzodiazepines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine) (ie. Benzo's) like Xanax & Klonapin (though these have issues with dependency--I would advise against their regular use), and , of course, your run-of-the-mill OTC or prescription sleep aid.

I hope this helps. I don't want whiskey and beer to be your only option to a good night's sleep! Most of this stuff can be self-diagnosed and doesn't require you to even go and visit a doctor, though, if you feel it would help, I certainly wouldn't speak out against it.

[Revy]

Sleep deprivation takes a toll on the brain. That is what people who have tried sleep deprivation for themselves (like world record holder Randy Gardner) have experienced. Short term memory loss and hallucinations being common. On his 11th (and final) day without sleep, Gardner was asked to repeatedly subtract 7 from 100. He stopped at 65, because he forgot what he was doing.

[Buffalo Souljah]

Maybe he was just a tard?:rolleyes:

[Quail]

I thought (although this could be total BS) that dreaming helped you to sort out your thoughts subconsciously? I find that I dream more when I'm worried or stressed about things (and actually I think a therapist once told me that people do tend to dream more when they're stressed/worried). So if humans were to go a lot of time without sleep they would probably have to replace that somehow. Maybe that's why sleep deprived people hallucinate.

[Buffalo Souljah]

Well, you could just as well "stop up" your D2 dopamine receptors (those responsible for creating "psychotic" experiences & delusions) with anti-psychotics and prevent your brain from being able to make you "see things that aren't there" chemically, thus preventing any such possible episodes in the evnt of sleep deprivation. I don't know what that says about the physiological aspects of sleep though... Also, it begs the question of what is "really there" in the first place...

(food for thought)