The Simpsons..anyone watch?

[RadioRaheem84]

The last episode (Stealing First Base) was one too many in a string in which they obsess about Ivy League schools. Lisa has turned into a little gunner prestige whore always whining about how she's an over achiever with no friends and then the writers use this as an excuse to ram on the fact that ivy league schools are the best and people who've attended these schools are the best, yada yada. The last episode made it seem like the only over achievers in this country went to Ivy League schools. Why do they always find a way to insert little quips about this into the episodes? It's like they have a chip on their shoulder that no one is fawning all over graduates of top schools or something, or that the general population doesn't acknowledge their over achieving work!

Any thoughts? Just wondered if anyone else noticed this?

[¿Que?]

I've gotten into arguments about the political nature of the whole Fox Sunday lineup. My argument is that they are generally conservative messages clothed in liberal attire. 99% of the people I say this to disagree, except for my Dad, who is the one who put the idea in my head in the first place.

Rupert Murdoch is just out to make a buck, so of course since most of the people who watch these cartoons have liberal tendencies, he's going to throw them something that'll make them feel like they can identify with the programming. Ultimately, though, if you really stop and think of the underlying message of all of these shows, it's basically reactionary and conservative.

Consider that every single one of these cartoon shows, the wife is always a home maker. The only exception is King of the Hill, where the wife was a teacher, a traditionally woman's job.

Also (and if you'll ignore my avatar for a second) Family Guy has some of the most blatant imagery of violence against women on any major network that I'm aware of. Not to mention a lot of their jokes are blatantly racist and insensitive to other types of minorities.

There is some funny stuff, that's why I watch it, but sometimes it really is hard to tolerate that stuff.

As for the episode you mention, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. Lisa is always harping about getting into an Ivy League school, but what was the grand lesson. Get into an Ivy League school and you can be the president's wife. It would have been a stronger message if they would have used Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton. Of course they never would. On the one hand, I'm not even sure if they went to Ivy League schools, but more importantly, if either of them ever shows up on one of those shows, they will be trashed talked to no end.

Also, think about how in the Simpson's movie the role of the EPA. Now I'm no fan of the government, but you have to admit, that's not a jab at the EPA in and of itself. It's a jab at the whole environmental movement. The lesson is that the government should not involve itself with attempting to regulate emissions and seek alternative forms of energy.

Finally, I feel the Simpson's seems to be going the way of Southpark a few years ago. They seem to be getting preachy and over rely on their message which is usually leaning towards a libertarian point of view. Thus on that same episode, they present the issue about lawsuits with no depth or substance. they don't consider once that in many cases, children are being harassed and bullied and this is why a lot of parents find recourse to legal action.

I don't even find the Simpsons funny anymore as compared with Family Guy, but I think that's just because these days everyone needs everything to be edgy and in your face to get a reaction.

Oh yeah, one last thing I forgot to mention. American Dad doesn't even hide the conservative nature of their program. The only progressive voice is Hailey, who usually has small parts, is sexually promiscuous (which has certain implications in a patriarchal society), and generally is the one who learns the lesson from the wiser and more experienced father figure.

As for my avatar, think of it as blasphemy. It's more or less a big middle finger to all of that!

[Sendo]

I won't go into how Seth MacFarlane is rip-off hack (agustin), but the Simpsons has fallen far from its liberal or social-democrat (though bourgeois) roots. I was shcoked by Rupert Murdoch originally having certain shows on his lineup, but his takeover of Fox wasn't as intense when shows like the Simpsons started, and many shows were booted. Look at Futurama. It has a very anti-corporate stance and Professor Farnsworth is often the stereotypical, unregulated, reckless boss. That's not saying why it got canceled, but I don't think anything on Fox has been like that since.

[Wanted Man]

I don't regularly watch The Simpsons anymore, so I can't say much about its more recent seasons. But what agustin and others are saying is definitely true.

Generally speaking, subtle humour seems to have been replaced by a mix of libertarian moralising and jokes about black people eating fried chicken.

[Hexen]

I've gotten into arguments about the political nature of the whole Fox Sunday lineup. My argument is that they are generally conservative messages clothed in liberal attire. 99% of the people I say this to disagree, except for my Dad, who is the one who put the idea in my head in the first place.

Rupert Murdoch is just out to make a buck, so of course since most of the people who watch these cartoons have liberal tendencies, he's going to throw them something that'll make them feel like they can identify with the programming. Ultimately, though, if you really stop and think of the underlying message of all of these shows, it's basically reactionary and conservative.

Consider that every single one of these cartoon shows, the wife is always a home maker. The only exception is King of the Hill, where the wife was a teacher, a traditionally woman's job.

Also (and if you'll ignore my avatar for a second) Family Guy has some of the most blatant imagery of violence against women on any major network that I'm aware of. Not to mention a lot of their jokes are blatantly racist and insensitive to other types of minorities.

There is some funny stuff, that's why I watch it, but sometimes it really is hard to tolerate that stuff.

As for the episode you mention, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. Lisa is always harping about getting into an Ivy League school, but what was the grand lesson. Get into an Ivy League school and you can be the president's wife. It would have been a stronger message if they would have used Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton. Of course they never would. On the one hand, I'm not even sure if they went to Ivy League schools, but more importantly, if either of them ever shows up on one of those shows, they will be trashed talked to no end.

Also, think about how in the Simpson's movie the role of the EPA. Now I'm no fan of the government, but you have to admit, that's not a jab at the EPA in and of itself. It's a jab at the whole environmental movement. The lesson is that the government should not involve itself with attempting to regulate emissions and seek alternative forms of energy.

Finally, I feel the Simpson's seems to be going the way of Southpark a few years ago. They seem to be getting preachy and over rely on their message which is usually leaning towards a libertarian point of view. Thus on that same episode, they present the issue about lawsuits with no depth or substance. they don't consider once that in many cases, children are being harassed and bullied and this is why a lot of parents find recourse to legal action.

I don't even find the Simpsons funny anymore as compared with Family Guy, but I think that's just because these days everyone needs everything to be edgy and in your face to get a reaction.

Oh yeah, one last thing I forgot to mention. American Dad doesn't even hide the conservative nature of their program. The only progressive voice is Hailey, who usually has small parts, is sexually promiscuous (which has certain implications in a patriarchal society), and generally is the one who learns the lesson from the wiser and more experienced father figure.

As for my avatar, think of it as blasphemy. It's more or less a big middle finger to all of that!

I agree, the show is a product from capitalist society what do you expect?

The more I think about it, The Simpsons (along with the other shows like Family Guy, South Park, etc) are basically nothing more than cartoon comedies made for the bourgeoisie (it's main intended targeted audience while working class people only just catch it) which it's sole purpose is to mock/ridicule and laugh at the working classes (their ideal image of it) much like sit-coms...

[RadioRaheem84]

This is true. I am glad I am not the only one that's noticed this. It seems like more and more liberals are turning libertarian with some issues. It's as if they're tired of the progressive left and are very proud to be centrist. I think they've taken all the could've of the general population and are revealing their true elitist colors.

It just seems like where the writers used to be progressive populist liberals back in the day, these days the writers are conventionally elitist liberals now that like to mock the lower class. It's just getting preachy and over bearing now. The shows are filled with pop trendy academic, journalist, liberal types that offer a preachy message. Lisa is always turning around and saying, " OMG, it's noted such scientist blah, blah, blah" or "OMG, it's pop academic New Yorker Magazine writer X, here to tell us why we're all stupid, and metropolitan liberals are the smartest people ever

[Dr Mindbender]

i think the simpsons is past its prime tbh.

For all the hate it gets i think Family Guy and certainly American dad are more 'on the pulse'.

[Jimmie Higgins]

You all are crazy. Of course (as the comrade said above) most mass culture is going to reflect capitalist ideology to some degree in a capitalist society. But I think satirical shows like "the Simpsons" and "Colbert" and "The Daily Show" are some of the shows least guilty of this in pop culture. If nothing else, "The Simpsons" has given the 20th century one of it's last great icons of capitalism, personified by Mr. Burns. The show has regularly skewered the myths of 90s working class affluence under neoliberalism. In a Halloween episode a year or two ago, the Simpsons likened the war in Iraq with Aliens coming to Springfield and wondering why the humans were fighing back against their rule (this is certainly as sharp as the best of Jon Stewart or Colbert). So even though the show is old and has been somewhat institutionalized and therefore sanitized, it still has more social bite than most of TV and I think people respond to the icons of: Evil Corporate Boss, not careing about work because of alienation, failing schools, kids with behavioral problems, corrupt and aloof mayors, clueless administrators, municiple privitization scams (monorail! monorail!), and drunk clowns.

The same thing with Family Guy - although its highs are high, its lows make me cringe. THe only one I can't make my self watch is "South Park" though. It's satire is almost exclusivly from a libertarian world-view and it's faux-preachy (but actual) preachyness irritiates me.

[RadioRaheem84]

I can't stand South Park. The libertarian humor is gut wrenching.

[Red Commissar]

I know that both of these shows get inundated with complaints to Fox and the FCC. Just recently Family Guy was revealed to be the most reported show to the FCC by Fox viewers.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2010/02/fcc-family-guy-fox-complaints-draft.html


The program that is keeping the FCC most busy is Fox's animated sitcom "Family Guy." A March 2009 episode alone generated almost 200,000 complaints, according to Doyle's arithmetic.

[MarxSchmarx]

I know that both of these shows get inundated with complaints to Fox and the FCC. Just recently Family Guy was revealed to be the most reported show to the FCC by Fox viewers.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2010/02/fcc-family-guy-fox-complaints-draft.html

There's an episode where they show family guy to a focus group and the group pans the show uniformly, there's some lady who deeply detests it, and McFarlan makes fun of these people but often their criticisms are actually quite coherent.

[gorillafuck]

South Park remind me of people that are so militantly anti-pretentiousness that it's mindblowingly pretentious. Does anyone else get that?

[Jimmie Higgins]

South Park remind me of people that are so militantly anti-pretentiousness that it's mindblowingly pretentious. Does anyone else get that?Yeah I think I could deal with South Park and enjoy the jokes and groan-off the right-wing tendencies if they weren't so self-righteous about their shallow political and social opinions.

[Meridian]

Besides the noted portrayal of women as passive in these series, is also the portrayal of men being extremely lazy and completely without any intelligence or sense of compassion. I think this applies generally to all the men in the series, but of course most notably the "main" characters.

[rednordman]

I've gotten into arguments about the political nature of the whole Fox Sunday lineup. My argument is that they are generally conservative messages clothed in liberal attire. 99% of the people I say this to disagree, except for my Dad, who is the one who put the idea in my head in the first place.

Rupert Murdoch is just out to make a buck, so of course since most of the people who watch these cartoons have liberal tendencies, he's going to throw them something that'll make them feel like they can identify with the programming. Ultimately, though, if you really stop and think of the underlying message of all of these shows, it's basically reactionary and conservative.

Consider that every single one of these cartoon shows, the wife is always a home maker. The only exception is King of the Hill, where the wife was a teacher, a traditionally woman's job.

Also (and if you'll ignore my avatar for a second) Family Guy has some of the most blatant imagery of violence against women on any major network that I'm aware of. Not to mention a lot of their jokes are blatantly racist and insensitive to other types of minorities.

There is some funny stuff, that's why I watch it, but sometimes it really is hard to tolerate that stuff.

As for the episode you mention, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. Lisa is always harping about getting into an Ivy League school, but what was the grand lesson. Get into an Ivy League school and you can be the president's wife. It would have been a stronger message if they would have used Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton. Of course they never would. On the one hand, I'm not even sure if they went to Ivy League schools, but more importantly, if either of them ever shows up on one of those shows, they will be trashed talked to no end.

Also, think about how in the Simpson's movie the role of the EPA. Now I'm no fan of the government, but you have to admit, that's not a jab at the EPA in and of itself. It's a jab at the whole environmental movement. The lesson is that the government should not involve itself with attempting to regulate emissions and seek alternative forms of energy.

Finally, I feel the Simpson's seems to be going the way of Southpark a few years ago. They seem to be getting preachy and over rely on their message which is usually leaning towards a libertarian point of view. Thus on that same episode, they present the issue about lawsuits with no depth or substance. they don't consider once that in many cases, children are being harassed and bullied and this is why a lot of parents find recourse to legal action.

I don't even find the Simpsons funny anymore as compared with Family Guy, but I think that's just because these days everyone needs everything to be edgy and in your face to get a reaction.

Oh yeah, one last thing I forgot to mention. American Dad doesn't even hide the conservative nature of their program. The only progressive voice is Hailey, who usually has small parts, is sexually promiscuous (which has certain implications in a patriarchal society), and generally is the one who learns the lesson from the wiser and more experienced father figure.

As for my avatar, think of it as blasphemy. It's more or less a big middle finger to all of that!I totally agree that most of FOXs comedies are liberal on the outside yet conservative on the inside. Its like Lisa Simpson has generally always been cast as an anti-establishment/enviromentalist/liberal thinker but fundamentaly she always ends up protraying the traditional individualist enpowerment message. Basically, its like she is a anti-big buisness libertarian.

I think what is interesting is how the show has changed since it first began in the very late 1980s. I swear the old episodes smaked alot of high morals, and even had obvious left-wing messages to them. Nowadays there are all about recycling old jokes and senasionalism humour so they can go on producing lame episodes for ever more.

[gorillafuck]

Yeah I think I could deal with South Park and enjoy the jokes and groan-off the right-wing tendencies if they weren't so self-righteous about their shallow political and social opinions.
Yeah, that's exactly how I feel.

[Outinleftfield]

Not only do shows seem to be right-wing but the good shows with more left-wing messages always wind up cancelled.

Anyone remember Wondershowzen? That wasnt even on Fox. It was on MTV2 and got cancelled when it was at its best. It had some very powerful messages. Creators are quoted as "We're about comedy with a smash-the-state subtext."

And Invader Zim? Does anyone remember that show from Nickelodeon? Its satirizes subtly American decadence and ignorance. Cancelled.

Futuramas still here but had to be moved to Comedy Central before they made new episodes.

[¿Que?]

Not only do shows seem to be right-wing but the good shows with more left-wing messages always wind up cancelled.

Anyone remember Wondershowzen? That wasnt even on Fox. It was on MTV2 and got cancelled when it was at its best. It had some very powerful messages. Creators are quoted as "We're about comedy with a smash-the-state subtext."

And Invader Zim? Does anyone remember that show from Nickelodeon? Its satirizes subtly American decadence and ignorance. Cancelled.

Futuramas still here but had to be moved to Comedy Central before they made new episodes.
What about Human Giant. Not exactly politically conscious or anything, but that lil' 911 bit was pretty funny.

[Dr Mindbender]

Yeah I think I could deal with South Park and enjoy the jokes and groan-off the right-wing tendencies if they weren't so self-righteous about their shallow political and social opinions.

Not just South Park, if you watch 'Team America, world police' made by the same creators which on one hand is a caricature of the american right it later goes on to refer to Michael Moore as a 'socialist weasel' after he attempts to destroy their HQ.

Although the film is racist to the core with the arab terrorists whose vocabulary consists entirely of 'durka durka'.

[The Red Next Door]

You know, everyone would be happy. If people didn't inject their political views in shows.
What do you expect after all it is fox.

[Manifesto]

Just saying Futurama is going to be renewed in June on Comedy Central and at least Robot Chicken is against Libertarianism. That one sketch they did on Libertarian candidates was hilarious.

[Jimmie Higgins]

^Well you know, Seth Green is just a liberal Hollywood elitist living high on the hog with all that "Without a Paddle" money.

[RadioRaheem84]

Which clip was that on Robot Chicken? Any links?

Also, I think that the producers, writers and creators of new shows and new episodes of old shows aren't afraid to appeal to the public anymore. They're out right libertarian these days and hate "laziness" and have 0 tolerance for excuses. They may be liberal socially, but economically they're still saying, " get a job, you bum".

[Jimmie Higgins]

I don't know - during the writers strike there was pretty good rank and file solidarity and people like Joss Whedon (who's very progressive it seems despite being from an "industry" family) and Tina Fey and some others who do not need to rely on the union for jobs (and probably make more money as producers and show-runners) actively and publicly rebuked studio attempts to use scab writers.

But on the subject of libertarian views among writers - Jon Stewart regularly refutes claims of partisanship on his show by saying the writing staff is more libertarian-leaning than liberal or conservative. I think this is more just a reflection of general trends in society than anything specifically about writers or entertainers. Future professionals who went to school in the late 80s and 90s lived through the fall of the USSR so-called "socialism" and the failure of South African liberation to deliver a new left alternative and so I think these factors along with just petty-bourgeois ideas that they probably grew up with made libertarian ideas seem like a decent compromise to them given no "realistic" alternatives outside of capitalism. In addition when I was graduating college and there were a lot of libertarian attitudes, people with CS degrees were getting inflated salaries right out of school (at least this is the myth they sold to people) and so Ayn Rand ideas and libertarian ideas were attractive to some who thought they were going out to get professional private sector jobs and making fortunes on stocks and retiring by 30. Instead, by 2001, the people who got starting job offers of 60-90K were now competing on a flooded labor market and working similar jobs for 20K or internships. A classmate of mine rose up in a video-game company and was traveling to Japan and being put up in nice hotels with a company car within 2 years of being hired. Now he works in the same job at the company that he started in and tests video-games for extra money.

This libertarian attitude has no doubt been slapped from the minds of all but a minority of current students. Students now don't look forward to jobs in some bubble industry and many rightly see that there is no guarantee of a life as a professional after school. For the minority who still cling to their Milton Friedman books and 10 year out of date econ textbooks are now like the refugees of the new left that were disoriented when the Revolution didn't happen spontaneously and because they are clinging to a view of the world that was wrong and now no longer describes any of the new economic realities... well they go a little crazy.

[Manifesto]

^Well you know, Seth Green is just a liberal Hollywood elitist living high on the hog with all that "Without a Paddle" money.
Eh true he is but I'm not really sure about "Without a Paddle" (wasn't even aware that made tons of money) but most of his money now probably comes from Family Guy.

[Manifesto]

Which clip was that on Robot Chicken? Any links?

Also, I think that the producers, writers and creators of new shows and new episodes of old shows aren't afraid to appeal to the public anymore. They're out right libertarian these days and hate "laziness" and have 0 tolerance for excuses. They may be liberal socially, but economically they're still saying, " get a job, you bum".
Sure http://enjoymydairyair.blogspot.com/2009/08/libertarian-party-of-america-from-robot.html . Oh please who are producers of shows like "The Simpsons" to criticize people on laziness they aren't even trying anymore. And they have done a few episodes saying "get a job, you bum" too.

[¿Que?]

Sure http://enjoymydairyair.blogspot.com/2009/08/libertarian-party-of-america-from-robot.html . Oh please who are producers of shows like "The Simpsons" to criticize people on laziness they aren't even trying anymore. And they have done a few episodes saying "get a job, you bum" too.
I'm not a big fan of RobotChicken, but I love that skit. Mostly because I love soundalikes!

[Die Neue Zeit]

the Simpsons has fallen far from its liberal or social-democrat (though bourgeois) roots

And in the process has lost is cutting edge humour.

There were serious episodes mixed in back in the day, such as the dental plan strike that Homer led. Back then they accentuated his working-class culture, including socialization at the pub.

[soyonstout]

And in the process has lost is cutting edge humour.

the Simpsons between seasons 3 and 9 was the best thing that has ever been aired on TV. there were some dud episodes now and again but overall it was the funniest thing in TV history (Python being a close second). It was also relateable and dealt with problems that the majority of the people face, UNLIKE most other shows/movies/media which are about the wealthy. Generally if you want to see people or characters with incomes closest to or below the median on TV in the US, you have to watch them getting arrested, going to fake court, making asses of themselves on talkshows, etc.

But yes, the Simpsons is awful nowadays. I remember one time this year I finished an episode and said "the commercials were funnier than the show I was watching, good god." There's a really good article about why and how the Simpsons got so bad, focusing on this lack of relatability that has grown (as well as celebrity cameos, pop-culture references, bad acting, etc.) here: today.msnbc.msn.com/id/3341530/

There's also the Mike Scully/Maxtone-Graham theory: slate.com/id/2078501/

It's perhaps a really sad indication of my nerdiness, or making bizarre connections, but I've said before that the only degeneration-of-a-formerly-great-thing-theory that I have that's more elaborate than the one I use for the Simpsons is about the Russian Revolution. (Although that is of course about something serious and not just commodified entertainment)

[Foldered]

And in the process has lost is cutting edge humour.

There were serious episodes mixed in back in the day, such as the dental plan strike that Homer led. Back then they accentuated his working-class culture, including socialization at the pub.
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/0809/dental-plan-simpsons-dental-plan-lisa-needs-braces-lenny-demotivational-poster-1221341158.jpg

I really like the Simpsons, but it has lost its edge. I've been watching it for a very long time, too.

[Die Rote Fahne]

I enjoy every episode of The Simpsons. Excluding the first 2 seasons. Too low quality.

I love it. The new stuff included.