Not everyone in the US is hurting - the rich get richer as the income gap explodes

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

http://www.businessinsider.com/not-everyone-is-hurting--the-rich-get-richer-as-the-income-inequality-gap-explodes-2010-3


Not everyone in America is hurting during this economic downturn. In fact, the wealthiest Americans are doing just fine. At a time when millions of Americans are losing their jobs and their homes, the folks at the top end of the income scale are actually seeing their incomes go up. In 2009, the number of millionaires in the United States rose 16 percent to 7.8 million at a time when tens of millions of other Americans were experiencing gut-wrenching economic despair. The truth is that the statistics and the data do not lie. Wealth and income are increasingly becoming concentrated in the hands of the wealthiest Americans. So just what in the world is going on?
Well, the reality is that the game is rigged to take wealth away from middle class and working class Americans and to give it to the elite. There is a reason why they push credit cards on you so hard. That $6000 balance that you keep carrying will end up costing you over $30,000 to pay off (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-credit-card-trap-how-u-s-credit-card-companies-are-sucking-the-financial-life-out-of-the-american-consumer) if you are not careful. We were told that owning a home was "the American Dream" and yet predatory mortgages have destroyed the financial lives of millions of Americans. The majority of Americans now live "month to month" and barely save any money at all. In fact, Americans are programmed to be slaves of the system. We are taught that we need to go get a job ("just over broke") and work ourselves silly all day, and then at night we are taught to collapse in front of the television where we are bombarded with messages telling us to be good consumers and to go out and get into even more debt so that we will have to endlessly work to pay it off.
Today more wealth is in the hands of the wealthiest Americans than at any other time in modern U.S. history. An analysis of income-tax data by the Congressional Budget Office a couple of years ago found that the top 1% of households own nearly twice as much (http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/invest/extra/p143548.asp) of the corporate wealth in the United States as they did just 15 years ago. While the average income for the poorest Americans has barely grown over the past several decades, the incomes of the wealthiest Americans have absolutely exploded as the following chart demonstrates....


http://static.businessinsider.com/image/4ba75da97f8b9ae73aaa0a00/chart.gif

[Havet]

Holy shit, I didn't know the gap was that wide

[LeftSideDown]

It does not matter in the slightest. According to communism, the only way they could've gotten so much richer was by exploiting workers more (making them work more or for less) but it seems to me that no one's income dropped or if it did it was not nearly in proportion to the amount income increased in the richest. You could say theres a huge gap between those first in line to get a vaccine and those last in line, but is anyone's solution that we give everyone a vaccine shot at the same time?

[Bud Struggle]

Rich people are working harder these days! :D

[Nolan]

It does not matter in the slightest. According to communism, the only way they could've gotten so much richer was by exploiting workers more (making them work more or for less) but it seems to me that no one's income dropped or if it did it was not nearly in proportion to the amount income increased in the richest. You could say theres a huge gap between those first in line to get a vaccine and those last in line, but is anyone's solution that we give everyone a vaccine shot at the same time?

Are you using the pie model? Why am I telling you about the pie model? You have sinned against Rush Limbaugh! :lol:

As for no ones income dropping, everyones purchasing power has been dropping like a rock for the last 30 years, and expenses keep going up. The end result? The rich are making off like bandits.

[LeftSideDown]

Are you using the pie model? Why am I telling you about the pie model? You have sinned against Rush Limbaugh! :lol:

As for no ones income dropping, everyones purchasing power has been dropping like a rock for the last 30 years, and expenses keep going up. The end result? The rich are making off like bandits.

I don't disagree that purchasing power is dropping, but who is perpetrating this? Not on who's behalf, but who?

I don't listen to/care about/give a damn about Rush Limbaugh

[Dean]

I don't disagree that purchasing power is dropping, but who is perpetrating this? Not on who's behalf, but who?

The system as a whole, which adapts market models in the furtherance of the material interests of those who direct capitalist entities.

I love how you differentiate between those who benefit and those you feel comfortable blaming. Surely capitalists wouldn't dare use force to further their own interests! That would somehow contradict the competitive market model of furtherance of their own interests!

[RGacky3]

Rich people are working harder these days!

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH



It does not matter in the slightest. According to communism, the only way they could've gotten so much richer was by exploiting workers more (making them work more or for less) but it seems to me that no one's income dropped or if it did it was not nearly in proportion to the amount income increased in the richest. You could say theres a huge gap between those first in line to get a vaccine and those last in line, but is anyone's solution that we give everyone a vaccine shot at the same time?


How does exploiting workers MORE equate to their income dropping? It does'nt, it just means that proportionally more of the wealth goes upward, if a slave owner has a great harvist his income will sky rocket and his slaves will work harder, their lifestyle (income I suppose) won't go down, but they are being exploited more.

By, since the 1980s worker productivity has more than doubled, so yeah, they are being exploited more. Also this is'nt adjusted for inflation.

[LeftSideDown]

How does exploiting workers MORE equate to their income dropping? It does'nt, it just means that proportionally more of the wealth goes upward, if a slave owner has a great harvist his income will sky rocket and his slaves will work harder, their lifestyle (income I suppose) won't go down, but they are being exploited more.

Wait, how does it go upward? I don't understand, looks to me that some investments made by the rich paid off pretty handsomely. Or, put another way, its not like there was that much of increase in factories/laborers therefore the only way the rich could've gotten richer was successful investments (for the most part, I guess they all could've won horse races or something). So it couldn't have been exploitation that made all this wealth... I wonder if maybe the LTV is wrong...


By, since the 1980s worker productivity has more than doubled, so yeah, they are being exploited more. Also this is'nt adjusted for inflation.

Inflation is a government problem.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

...and the say the labour theory of value is flawed
:)

[LeftSideDown]

The system as a whole, which adapts market models in the furtherance of the material interests of those who direct capitalist entities.

I love how you differentiate between those who benefit and those you feel comfortable blaming. Surely capitalists wouldn't dare use force to further their own interests! That would somehow contradict the competitive market model of furtherance of their own interests!

Wrong, its the central bank.

[anticap]

According to communism, the only way they could've gotten so much richer was by exploiting workers more (making them work more or for less) but it seems to me that no one's income dropped or if it did it was not nearly in proportion to the amount income increased in the richest.

Worker productivity has continued to rise, but their wages have not kept pace. Instead, they've been offered credit: http://www.rdwolff.com/content/capitalism-hits-fan-movie

[LeftSideDown]

Worker productivity has continued to rise, but their wages have not kept pace. Instead, they've been offered credit: http://www.rdwolff.com/content/capitalism-hits-fan-movie

Worker productivity raises as the result of good capital investment. The fact that wages have not kept pace shows how much the market has been messed with. This financial crisis was caused by credit, but it was the central banks infinite credit line that made it all possible.

[RGacky3]

Wait, how does it go upward? I don't understand, looks to me that some investments made by the rich paid off pretty handsomely. Or, put another way, its not like there was that much of increase in factories/laborers therefore the only way the rich could've gotten richer was successful investments (for the most part, I guess they all could've won horse races or something). So it couldn't have been exploitation that made all this wealth... I wonder if maybe the LTV is wrong...


Successful investments are successfull because of the labor they are based on, so yeah, its still exploitation. You need to read a book on basic economics or something and then come back.


Inflation is a government problem.

Whats your point? I said it was'nt adjusted for inflation so it means that the workers are making less. I did'nt ask whose problem it is. You need to learn to follow discussions logically.


Worker productivity raises as the result of good capital investment.

No, good capital investmetns are the result of worker productivity. Do you know waht an investment is?

[LeftSideDown]

Successful investments are successfull because of the labor they are based on, so yeah, its still exploitation. You need to read a book on basic economics or something and then come back.

How are they because of labor? Explain this to me.


Whats your point? I said it was'nt adjusted for inflation so it means that the workers are making less. I did'nt ask whose problem it is. You need to learn to follow discussions logically.

Doesn't it mean the rich are making less too? You need to learn to follow your own logic to its conclusions.


No, good capital investmetns are the result of worker productivity. Do you know waht an investment is?

Investment is the commitment of money or capital to purchase financial instruments or other assets in order to gain profitable returns in form of interest, income, or appreciation of the value of the instrument

Worker productivity comes from past investment.

[anticap]

Worker productivity raises as the result of good capital investment.

Yes, it's always the heroic capitalist. :rolleyes:

No, a great deal of it is attributable to computerization, and that R&D came out of the state sector. It was later gifted to your heroes in the private sector.


The fact that wages have not kept pace shows how much the market has been messed with.

No, it shows that your heroes forgot (it was just an oversight, I'm sure) to increase worker pay as their profits rose.


This financial crisis was caused by credit, but it was the central banks infinite credit line that made it all possible.

No, my Ron Paul-worshiping friend, capitalists behave naughtily not because they're temped by the evil banksters, but because they're naughty. They would have offered loans in lieu of wages with or without their banking system (yes, it's theirs, and it's run in their interests).

[Skooma Addict]

No, my Ron Paul-worshiping friend, capitalists behave naughtily not because they're temped by the evil banksters, but because they're naughty. They would have offered loans in lieu of wages with or without their banking system (yes, it's theirs, and it's run in their interests).

Capitalists aren't one single group of people with uniform interests. Some capitalists are harmed by the modern financial system, while some benefit. The way you view the subject is extremely simplistic.

[syndicat]

From the late '60s to the late '90s labor productivity...revenue per hour worked...increased by 50 percent. During that same period the hourly rate for the 80 percent of the population who are non-managerial employees declined by over 11 percent.

Labor productivity doesn't go up just due to investment, for example, in more efficient equipment. It also goes up when people are forced to work harder for less. From late '80s on the main form of investment was in information technology. A significant part of this is used to more closely monitor and control workers.

Income of families remained flat for most people rather than declining, despite declining real wage, because (1) people were working more hours, and (2) more family members were working.

[Drace]

Capitalists aren't one single group of people with uniform interests. Some capitalists are harmed by the modern financial system, while some benefit. The way you view the subject is extremely simplistic.Who cares about their interest. Your argument simply ignores the argument.
Refer back to the original post and take a look at the graph. The rich are getting richer, while the poor are getting poorer.

[Nolan]

Worker productivity raises as the result of good capital investment. The fact that wages have not kept pace shows how much the market has been messed with. This financial crisis was caused by credit, but it was the central banks infinite credit line that made it all possible.

So everything good is the result of capitalism, but everything bad comes from the market being messed with... gotcha

[Nolan]

Doesn't it mean the rich are making less too? You need to learn to follow your own logic to its conclusions.


http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/facepalm.jpg

[Skooma Addict]

Who cares about their interest. Your argument simply ignores the argument.
Refer back to the original post and take a look at the graph. The rich are getting richer, while the poor are getting poorer.

I take it you didn't read the post to which my response was addressed?

[Dean]

Doesn't it mean the rich are making less too? You need to learn to follow your own logic to its conclusions.

Ah! now I understand why you support hierarchical systems of economy.

You should keep reading.