Log in

View Full Version : Health Care bill passed!



entfaltend
22nd March 2010, 04:10
Health care reform bill passed! Look up HR 3590 on Opencongress for the details. Haven't read much about it yet so I'm not sure how pleased/pissed off to be. Gotta be better than what we have now though, even if it is far from perfect.

SandiNeesta
22nd March 2010, 04:17
Something is better than nothing I guess....I haven't been able to get insurance for the past few years because of a pre-existing condition and I believe the bill will make sure that's not an obstacle anymore so I'm thrilled.

CartCollector
22nd March 2010, 04:20
The US is officially socialist now! Or at least that's what the teabaggers told me. I'm sure everyone here will be pleased at that news.

But really, some convoluted plan that involves forcing private insurance companies to provide cheap insurance isn't socialism. And even going by a "it's a reform it should help" standard, does it really? If you can't afford insurance, you're not going to get it, just like before.

Speaking of teabaggers, some of them just told me that now Obama is going to try to take away everyone's guns because the US is communist now. I showed them the fourth point of the Demands of the Communist Party in Germany.

Communist
22nd March 2010, 04:25
..
Congress clears historic health care bill

March 21, 2010 7:12:38 PM By DAVID ESPO
http://ll.vimg.net/imagesoa/cms/images/APNews/General-Business/20100322/US-Health-Care-Overhaul-27f632f2-529f-4e31-b19c-d827372f262a.jpg?width=300&height=2048&type=fm&watermark=&detectface=1&faceratio=&watermarkloc= (http://www.mail.com/Article.aspx/money/business/APNews/General-Business/20100322/U_US-Health-Care-Overhaul?pageid=1)

Summoned to success by President Barack Obama, the Democratic-controlled Congress approved historic legislation Sunday night extending health care to tens of millions of uninsured Americans and cracking down on insurance company abuses, a climactic chapter in the century-long quest for near universal coverage.

Widely viewed as dead two months ago, the Senate-passed bill cleared the House on a 219-212 vote. Republicans were unanimous in opposition, joined by 34 dissident Democrats.

Obama watched the vote in the White House's Roosevelt Room with Vice President Joe Biden and about 40 staff aides. When the long sought 216th vote came in -- the magic number needed for passage -- the room burst into applause and hugs. An exultant president exchanged a high-five with his chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel.

A second, smaller measure -- making changes in the first -- was lined up for passage later in the evening. It would then go to the Senate, where Democratic leaders said they had the votes to pass it.

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said the legislation awaiting the president's approval would extend coverage to 32 million Americans who lack it, ban insurers from denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions and cut deficits by an estimated $138 billion over a decade. If realized, the expansion of coverage would include 95 percent of all eligible individuals under age 65.

For the first time, most Americans would be required to purchase insurance, and face penalties if they refused. Much of the money in the bill would be devoted to subsidies to help families at incomes of up to $88,000 a year pay their premiums.

Far beyond the political ramifications -- a concern the president repeatedly insisted he paid no mind -- were the sweeping changes the bill held in store for millions of individuals, the insurance companies that would come under tougher control and the health care providers, many of whom would face higher taxes.

Crowds of protesters outside the Capitol shouted "just vote no" in a futile attempt to stop the inevitable taking place inside a House packed with lawmakers and ringed with spectators in the galleries above.

Across hours of debate, House Democrats predicted the larger of the two bills, costing $940 billion over a decade, would rank with other great social legislation of recent decades.

"We will be joining those who established Social Security, Medicare and now, tonight, health care for all Americans, said Speaker Nancy Pelosi, partner to Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., in the grueling campaign to pass the legislation.

Far beyond the political ramifications -- a concern the president repeatedly insisted he paid no mind -- were the sweeping changes the bill held in store for millions of individuals, the insurance companies that would come under tougher control and the health care providers, many of whom would face higher taxes.

For the first time, most Americans would be required to purchase insurance, and face penalties if they refused. Much of the money in the bill would be devoted to subsidies to help families at incomes of up to $88,000 a year pay their premiums.

The measure would also usher in a significant expansion of Medicaid, the federal-state health care program for the poor. Coverage would be required for incomes up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level, $29,327 a year for a family of four. Childless adults would be covered for the first time, starting in 2014.

The insurance industry, which spent millions on advertising trying to block the bill, would come under new federal regulation. They would be forbidden from placing lifetime dollar limits on policies, from denying coverage to children because of pre-existing conditions and from canceling policies when a policyholder becomes ill.

Parents would be able to keep children up to age 26 on their family insurance plans, three years longer than is now the case.

A new high-risk pool would offer coverage to uninsured people with medical problems until 2014, when the coverage expansion would go into high gear.
Passage of a central health care bill already cleared by the Senate would send it to Obama for his signature as early as Monday. That still would leave one more step, a companion package of changes still needing Senate approval.

After more than a year of political combat -- certain to persist into the fall election campaign for control of Congress -- Democrats piled superlative upon superlative across several hours of House debate.

Rep. Louise Slaughter of New York read a message President Franklin Roosevelt sent Congress in 1939 urging lawmakers to address the needs of those without health care, and said Democrat Harry Truman and Republican Richard Nixon had also sought to broaden insurance coverage.

Republicans attacked the bill without let-up, warning it would harm the economy while mandating a government takeover of the health care system.

"The American people know you can't reduce health care costs by spending $1 trillion or raising taxes by more than one-half trillion dollars. The American people know that you cannot cut Medicare by over one-half trillion dollars without hurting seniors," said Rep. Dave Camp, R-Mich.
"And, the American people know that you can't create an entirely new government entitlement program without exploding spending and the deficit."

Obama has said often that presidents of both parties have tried without success to achieve national health insurance, beginning with Theodore Roosevelt early in the 20th century.

The 44th president's quest to succeed where others have failed seemed at a dead end two months ago, when Republicans won a special election for a Massachusetts Senate seat, and with it, the votes to prevent a final vote.

But the White House, Pelosi and Reid soon came up with a rescue plan that required the House to approve the Senate-passed measure despite opposition to many of its provisions, then have both houses pass a fix-it measure incorporating numerous changes.

To pay for the changes, the legislation includes more than $400 billion in higher taxes over a decade, roughly half of it from a new Medicare payroll tax on individuals with incomes over $200,000 and couples over $250,000.

A new excise tax on high-cost insurance policies was significantly scaled back in deference to complaints from organized labor.

In addition, the bills cut more than $500 billion from planned payments to hospitals, nursing homes, hospices and other providers that treat Medicare patients. An estimated $200 billion would reduce planned subsidies to insurance companies that offer a private alternative to traditional Medicare.

The insurance industry warned that seniors would face sharply higher premiums as a result, and the Congressional Budget Office said many would return to traditional Medicare as a result.

The subsidies are higher than those for seniors on traditional Medicare, a difference that critics complain is wasteful, but insurance industry officials argue goes into expanded benefits.


.

entfaltend
22nd March 2010, 04:39
Something is better than nothing I guess....I haven't been able to get insurance for the past few years because of a pre-existing condition and I believe the bill will make sure that's not an obstacle anymore so I'm thrilled.

Yeah. The anti-rescission stuff in the bill is worth it alone IMO.






I'm seriously digging the frothing at the mouth replies in the comments sections of the newspapers. *makes some popcorn*

Outinleftfield
22nd March 2010, 04:39
And now people will stop pushing for reform and we'll have to wait even longer for single payer than if the bill didn't pass.

This is a sorry excuse for a bill. 95% of Americans under 65 will be covered. What about the other 5%? What about the fact that health insurance companies still have the right to put a "cap" on annual payouts in this bill? That one thing should have at least been dealt with. If I have to pay the insurance companies I should be absolutely insured that if I need the money they will have to pay me. There's a limit to how low they can set the cap but plenty of cancer patients will still wind up bankrupt.

But what do you expect from bourgeois liberal capitalists.

Just wait the Republicans will widdle away the regulations on the health insurance industry when they get into office but they won't repeal mandatory coverage so we'll all be stuck having to pay money for substandard health insurance.

Angry Young Man
22nd March 2010, 04:48
I'm not sure how close this is to the socialised healthcare there is in... pretty much every country in Europe (even the UK! America really is backwards! :laugh:) but I think you should support it. Even in a capitalist system, medicine which is free at the point of use is an aspect of socialism, so while keeping in mind what could be (better medicine free at the point of use, well-paid nurses and cleaners, better food, free drugs), give more precedence to how it could be worse (the old system, being turfed out of your bed, HMO predation).

Manifesto
22nd March 2010, 04:56
So whats with teabaggers? Healthcare works fine in Canada and Europe but they still insist that it will ruin the country, up to their necks in taxes or even claim they are Socialist, England=Socialist?:rolleyes:

Red Commissar
22nd March 2010, 05:01
This is not a single-payer system of healthcare. It never was intended to be such. Neither is it like the kind we have in most of Europe where the government provides a plan along side other private options.

The Democrats had originally envisioned a concept where private insurers would be regulated, and would compete with one another as well as a "public" option for others to go into.

Then the drama started, and through various acts, the bill ended up as a sorry ass attempt at "regulating" the industry, and requiring all Americans to buy into an insurance plan. The public option was struck out all together.

This is a situation they have in Massachusetts, at least the bit where everyone has to buy into insurance that they're assured is "affordable".

The bill is a sorry mess. None of us should be supporting it.

entfaltend
22nd March 2010, 05:04
So whats with teabaggers? Healthcare works fine in Canada and Europe but they still insist that it will ruin the country, up to their necks in taxes or even claim they are Socialist, England=Socialist?:rolleyes:

They just parrot shit they hear from Limbaugh or Beck. I've tried hashing out things with a few of them, and they literally will not accept documented facts that contradict their opinion, they just respond with another talking point.

R_P_A_S
22nd March 2010, 05:46
This is not a single-payer system of healthcare. It never was intended to be such. Neither is it like the kind we have in most of Europe where the government provides a plan along side other private options.

The Democrats had originally envisioned a concept where private insurers would be regulated, and would compete with one another as well as a "public" option for others to go into.

Then the drama started, and through various acts, the bill ended up as a sorry ass attempt at "regulating" the industry, and requiring all Americans to buy into an insurance plan. The public option was struck out all together.

This is a situation they have in Massachusetts, at least the bit where everyone has to buy into insurance that they're assured is "affordable".

The bill is a sorry mess. None of us should be supporting it.

I'm so confused. So what the hell does this mean for me? I will get a letter in the mail asked to pick a healthcare plan? What If I can't afford one?

entfaltend
22nd March 2010, 05:57
I'm so confused. So what the hell does this mean for me? I will get a letter in the mail asked to pick a healthcare plan? What If I can't afford one?

Sounds like there's a refundable tax credit if you make under a couple times the poverty line to pay for any dues beyond a certain amount. Any penalties (which won't start going into effect for years) also cannot exceed the cost of the most basic health care plan.

From the detailed summary on Opencongress.


Making Coverage Affordable. New, refundable tax credits will be available for Americans with incomes between 100 and 400 percent of the federal poverty line (FPL) (about $88,000 for a family of four). The credit is calculated on a sliding scale beginning at two percent of income for those at 100 percent FPL and phasing out at 9.8 percent of income at 300-400 percent FPL. If an employer offer of coverage exceeds 9.8 percent of a worker‟s family income, or the employer pays less than 60 percent of the premium, the worker may enroll in the Exchange and receive credits. Out of pocket maximums ($5,950 for individuals and $11,900 for families) are reduced to one-third for those with income between 100-200 percent FPL, one-half for those with incomes between 200-300 percent FPL, and
3
two-thirds for those with income between 300-400 percent FPL. Credits are available for eligible citizens and legally-residing aliens. A new credit will assist small businesses with fewer than 25 workers for up to 50 percent of the total premium cost.


Shared Responsibility. Beginning in 2014, most individuals will be responsible for maintaining minimum essential coverage or paying a penalty of $95 in 2014, $495 in 2015 and $750 in 2016, or up to two percent of income by 2016, with a cap at the national average bronze plan premium. Families will pay half the amount for children up to a cap of $2,250 for the entire family. After 2016, dollar amounts will increase by the annual cost of living adjustment. Exceptions to this requirement are made for religious objectors, those who cannot afford coverage, taxpayers with incomes less than 100 percent FPL, Indian tribe members, those who receive a hardship waiver, individuals not lawfully present, incarcerated individuals, and those not covered for less than three months.
Any individual or family who currently has coverage and would like to retain that coverage can do so under a „grandfather‟ provision. This coverage is deemed to meet the individual responsibility to have health coverage. Similarly, employers that currently offer coverage are permitted to continue offering such coverage under the „grandfather‟ policy.
Employers with more than 200 employees must automatically enroll new full-time employees in coverage. Any employer with more than 50 full-time employees that does not offer coverage and has at least one full-time employee receiving the premium assistance tax credit will make a payment of $750 per full-time employee. An employer with more than 50 employees that offers coverage that is deemed unaffordable or does not meet the standard for minimum essential coverage and but has at least one full-time employee receiving the premium assistance tax credit because the coverage is either unaffordable or does not cover 60 percent of total costs, will pay the lesser of $3,000 for each of those employees receiving a credit or $750 for each of their full-time employees total.

Dermezel
22nd March 2010, 05:57
I do not see the gain of this so much as economical, though that is important, as political.

Currently, while it may be unpleasant to admit, the power structure of the world's most powerful nation is necessarily divided between social democratic and fascistic wings. The Democrats represent the Social Democratic element, the Republicans as fascistic.

That is because the way the US system is structured naturally leads to two-party rule. Until we change fundamental aspects of the system to allow third parties, or unless we take over the DNC, we need to realize that the Democrats currently serve as our only shield against the fascists. It is a fact about as unpleasant as drinking cough syrup.

And just to deny anyone from the onset from accusing, I am not a Reformist. I believe it would be good to overthrow and defeat capitalist completely, hopefully without much violence. But modern day warfare is so dominated by Constant Capital over Variable that we must focus on political maneuvers over straight fights. Especially now with class consciousness so low, we are on the extreme defensive.

cb9's_unity
22nd March 2010, 05:57
There are a few things in the bill that I don't mind being law as opposed to not being so. However there is really nothing to be excited about here, nothing in regards to progress towards socialism.

The debate was interesting as it yet again showed just how divorced from reality republican talking points can be, and just how inept the democrats are at pointing the flaws in such absurd republican arguments. The democrats succeeded at making a bill that by American standards was center-left become completely centrist.

Dermezel
22nd March 2010, 06:00
Keep in mind right now the United States is the primary target for fascists. The US has the most powerful army in the world, if any nation can set the world back to an earlier, reactionary era it is the US. The battle for this nation is important.

GPDP
22nd March 2010, 06:00
This bill still doesn't cover undocumented workers, correct?

If so, then this bill does fuck all for me.

Red Commissar
22nd March 2010, 06:01
I'm so confused. So what the hell does this mean for me? I will get a letter in the mail asked to pick a healthcare plan? What If I can't afford one?

According to what I'm reading, they have a "plan" to subsidize for those who can't afford it. That is, making below $44,000 as an individual, or up to $88,000 with a family of 4.

They also claim that insurance costs in general will be brought under control.

I'm not sure how they will enforce this to have people buy insurance, but it will probably be required for procedures in the hospital outside of emergency room visits.

But again let me emphasize, this is not "reform" or anything like what they have in the rest of the world. It's working in favor of the status quo.


This bill still doesn't cover undocumented workers, correct?

If so, then this bill does fuck all for me.

With all the noise Republicans and Blue Dogs made over it, as well as Democratic politicians who lived in areas where their voters demanded angrily that it shouldn't, I believe it is not in there. Same goes for abortions.

Like I said before, this is not reform. It's a joke.

And people will still call this "socialism". It works in favor of the capitalist, and a convenient smear campaign for them too.

Dermezel
22nd March 2010, 06:04
There are a few things in the bill that I don't mind being law as opposed to not being so. However there is really nothing to be excited about here, nothing in regards to progress towards socialism.

The debate was interesting as it yet again showed just how divorced from reality republican talking points can be, and just how inept the democrats are at pointing the flaws in such absurd republican arguments. The democrats succeeded at making a bill that by American standards was center-left become completely centrist.

The Democrats have no spine. Worse then that they have little to no internal party discussions. They are liberal/moralistic bourgeoisie dominated. Most do not recognize the existence of class war, even the Union leaders. It is a major weakness. It is far from an ideal situation but as of now keeping the Christian Right and hardcore corporatists from having absolute power over Nukes is the best we can hope for.

CartCollector
22nd March 2010, 06:09
From what I've heard the Tea Party line is that this bill is meant to force private insurance companies to go under by forcing them to insure people that aren't profitable. And then, once the private insurers are gone, Obama can implement... SOCIALISM! Dun dun dun... Or communism, or fascism, or something. Same thing, right?

R_P_A_S
22nd March 2010, 06:09
Well I sure as hell don't make 44K a year. I'm unemployed and work as a temp 2 days a week if I'm lucky. I hope this is good news to my father who had a heart attack 2 years ago and had to go some procedures and the grocery store he worked for put him as part time so that they dont have to cover his hospital bills. =/

Red Commissar
22nd March 2010, 06:11
Well I sure as hell don't make 44K a year. I'm unemployed and work as a temp 2 days a week if I'm lucky. I hope this is good news to my father who had a heart attack 2 years ago and had to go some procedures and the grocery store he worked for put him as part time so that they dont have to cover his hospital bills. =/

In that case you will probably be covered, for what that is worth.

However the full effects of this law won't kick in until 2014, from what I'm reading in news sources.

But for us socialists of all shades, this bill is an affront to what should be a guarantee for a human, especially in an industrialized nation.

the last donut of the night
22nd March 2010, 06:18
I do not see the gain of this so much as economical, though that is important, as political.

Currently, while it may be unpleasant to admit, the power structure of the world's most powerful nation is necessarily divided between social democratic and fascistic wings. The Democrats represent the Social Democratic element, the Republicans as fascistic.

That is because the way the US system is structured naturally leads to two-party rule. Until we change fundamental aspects of the system to allow third parties, or unless we take over the DNC, we need to realize that the Democrats currently serve as our only shield against the fascists. It is a fact about as unpleasant as drinking cough syrup.

And just to deny anyone from the onset from accusing, I am not a Reformist. I believe it would be good to overthrow and defeat capitalist completely, hopefully without much violence. But modern day warfare is so dominated by Constant Capital over Variable that we must focus on political maneuvers over straight fights. Especially now with class consciousness so low, we are on the extreme defensive.


No, that's not the case at all. Will the American left just fucking grow up and see that the Democratic Party is not something to be supported in any case? The Democrats are not the social democratic wing of the bourgeoisie, and the Republican party is not a fascist party. They are hardly fighting against each other -- in fact, they work together to further the aims of the American bourgeoisie. This can be seen in this bill -- the Democrats, supposedly the social democratic ones, have had numerous talks with insurance lobbyists but have never ever sat down with single-payer advocates. They, I repeat, aren't even social democratic because they're hardly proposing any uniform reform to the capitalist state whatsoever. They're just as bad as the Republicans, or even worse, because they pretend to represent the people when their minds and hands are in the hands of the bourgeoisie. And the Republican party is not fascist -- you have to read up on what fascism actually is. The tea baggers are fascists, but nobody's really sure if the Republican party will allow them to infiltrate its ranks. In fact, nobody's really sure if the American bourgeoisie is in need of fascism just yet. It's not like the worker movement is too strong here in the US. Thus, the left has to shut up and see that there is no fucking salvation in the Democrats -- they do not represent anything progressive and sure as hell they do not represent the proletariat. The CPUSA has gone down your path of thinking and now they're not even remotely the shadow of what they were in the 30s, for example. And even if we were waging a death struggle against the fascists, why would we back a capitalist party as a buffer, or shield? That's as smart of a strategy as using a tiger to fend off a lion in a locked room. They're gonna eat you up before they kill themselves. If we were to fight the fascists, we would do it in the streets, the poor communities, not somehow calling to our internet buddies to support some bourgeois law piece. God damn, this is the problem of the left internationally, but especially here in the US. We have to grow up and see and understand that the state is fundamentally an organ of class rule and little else. A capitalist state will not give a flying fuck about the state of the proletariat, just as a capitalist party will not give a fuck about poor people. So this is my note to the American left and people like you, good sir: The Democrats are the same side of the capitalist coin -- people over profits, over and over again. Maybe when we understand that we will have some influence in this blighted country.

Rant done.

Dermezel
22nd March 2010, 06:19
From what I've heard the Tea Party line is that this bill is meant to force private insurance companies to go under by forcing them to insure people that aren't profitable. And then, once the private insurers are gone, Obama can implement... SOCIALISM! Dun dun dun... Or communism, or fascism, or something. Same thing, right?

Obama will never implement socialism. Not unless he ruled for something like 6 terms and advocated a peaceful revolution. Obama represents a liberal element of the capitalist class.

Dermezel
22nd March 2010, 06:22
No, that's not the case at all. Will the American left just fucking grow up and see that the Democratic Party is not something to be supported in any case? The Democrats are not the social democratic wing of the bourgeoisie, and the Republican party is not a fascist party. They are hardly fighting against each other -- in fact, they work together to further the aims of the American bourgeoisie. This can be seen in this bill -- the Democrats, supposedly the social democratic ones, have had numerous talks with insurance lobbyists but have never ever sat down with single-payer advocates. They, I repeat, aren't even social democratic because they're hardly proposing any uniform reform to the capitalist state whatsoever. They're just as bad as the Republicans, or even worse, because they pretend to represent the people when their minds and hands are in the hands of the bourgeoisie. And the Republican party is not fascist -- you have to read up on what fascism actually is. The tea baggers are fascists, but nobody's really sure if the Republican party will allow them to infiltrate its ranks. In fact, nobody's really sure if the American bourgeoisie is in need of fascism just yet. It's not like the worker movement is too strong here in the US. Thus, the left has to shut up and see that there is no fucking salvation in the Democrats -- they do not represent anything progressive and sure as hell they do not represent the proletariat. The CPUSA has gone down your path of thinking and now they're not even remotely the shadow of what they were in the 30s, for example. And even if we were waging a death struggle against the fascists, why would we back a capitalist party as a buffer, or shield? That's as smart of a strategy as using a tiger to fend off a lion in a locked room. They're gonna eat you up before they kill themselves. If we were to fight the fascists, we would do it in the streets, the poor communities, not somehow calling to our internet buddies to support some bourgeois law piece. God damn, this is the problem of the left internationally, but especially here in the US. We have to grow up and see and understand that the state is fundamentally an organ of class rule and little else. A capitalist state will not give a flying fuck about the state of the proletariat, just as a capitalist party will not give a fuck about poor people. So this is my note to the American left and people like you, good sir: The Democrats are the same side of the capitalist coin -- people over profits, over and over again. Maybe when we understand that we will have some influence in this blighted country.

Rant done.

But that is the case. We are locked into a two party system because of the way elections are designed. Fascists here cannot take power in the same way they did in Europe because the same means are not open to them. They will have to usurp one of the two existing ruling parties.

I am not sure completely what can be done, but from a strategic viewpoint the best we can hope for is that the US does not go full fascist. We are on the defensive.

Thus far, I believe the only reason we have not gone full fascist is because the People's Republic prevented a total economic collapse. Any freedom or prosperity we have now we owe to the People's Republic.

Likewise, I have to note that State ownership even under capitalism is preferable to private ownership simply because those who control such economies have more interest in long-term development. State companies do not allow their controllers to simply sell off the industries when the economy hits a bump, whereas privately owned companies completely collapse. The US is militarily the strongest the world has ever seen, and has an extremely strong right wing element. Class consciousness is almost non-existent. Keep in mind, in times of crises power tends towards the most organized and numerical groups, at this point it would heavily favor fascistic elements.

Keep in mind when fascists took power in Germany and Italy they privatized multiple publicly/State owned industries almost immediately. Most people do not seem to realize fascists in no way advocated State ownership of the economy.

Salyut
22nd March 2010, 06:25
Didn't Limbaugh promise to leave the country if it was passed? Also the coming Glenn Beck on-air freak out will be epic.

Red Commissar
22nd March 2010, 06:25
....

Democrats have indeed done more damage for the left in the United States than good.

Dermezel
22nd March 2010, 06:33
Democrats have indeed done more damage for the left in the United States than good.

That is true, but keep in mind the USSR collapsed when the Republicans were in charge. The GOP is far more anti-Communist then the Democrats. The Democrats are not so much our friend as much as a weaker and more fair enemy.

To make this concrete, I don't think Al Gore would have invaded Iraq if he was elected. I think he would have invaded Afghanistan and launched various Imperialist campaigns, and concentrated on Global Warming though he would have had little influence in the bourgeoisie system.

To be frank, I tend to like a lot of Democrats as people, but consider them monsters in their institutional role. The Republicans I despise on both counts and to greater degree. In fact, I like Obama as a person. After a revolution I would not propose executing him, I would consider far harsher punishments for Bush and Cheney.

the last donut of the night
22nd March 2010, 06:56
That is true, but keep in mind the USSR collapsed when the Republicans were in charge. The GOP is far more anti-Communist then the Democrats. The Democrats are not so much our friend as much as a weaker and more fair enemy.

What you just said is completely irrelevant though. So what if the Republicans were in power? By the late 80s, the USSR under Gorbachev was a capitalist regime, pure and simple. It only was socialist by name, and most socialists with a brain can attest to that fact. It's not like Reagan came into office and the healthy, socialist state just dismantled because of that. Numerous factors were involved, and which party ruled at that time was completely irrelevant. You have to see this as class-based, not in an idealistic fashion. The Democrats were just as anti-communist as Republicans because that fit the needs of the bourgeoisie at a time to create a scapegoat to distract average citizens (the same way the image of the terrorist, as anyone who opposes American rule, is being used today in political "discussions" to distract people from the fact that they live under a shit economic system).

The Democrats are not weaker and are not fairer. In fact, they're usually worse because they're so damn good at fooling people (like you) into thinking they're progressive.


To make this concrete, I don't think Al Gore would have invaded Iraq if he was elected. I think he would have invaded Afghanistan and launched various Imperialist campaigns, and concentrated on Global Warming though he would have had little influence in the bourgeoisie system.

First of all, as I know from previous experience, creating hypothetical scenarios in political discussions is a bad move because you've got no proof whatsoever to back up your claims. We cannot know what could've happened if Al Gore had been elected. Yet I'll look at your claim. I'm extremely skeptical that the election of Al Gore would have led to such a radical change in American foreign policy. You are thinking like a liberal in the sense that you completely forget a class analysis of this situation. Class conditions create leaders, not the other way around. That means Al Gore by himself would not have changed American policy that way. The American bourgeoisie now needs these wars as a way to maintain waning American hegemony internationally, and that's why it's so desperate to 'win'. Democrat presidents wouldn't have changed jack shit, just as Obama hasn't changed jack shit. He is fitting the role of the leader of a capitalist country.


To be frank, I tend to like a lot of Democrats as people, but consider them monsters in their institutional role. The Republicans I despise on both counts and to greater degree. In fact, I like Obama as a person. After a revolution I would not propose executing him, I would consider far harsher punishments for Bush and Cheney.

So? It's funny you're even planning on a revolution when your talk is the model of the discourse bloating the American left for the past century. The first step to become an independent political force is to sever all ties with capitalist parties.

Red Commissar
22nd March 2010, 07:14
That is true, but keep in mind the USSR collapsed when the Republicans were in charge. The GOP is far more anti-Communist then the Democrats. The Democrats are not so much our friend as much as a weaker and more fair enemy.

To make this concrete, I don't think Al Gore would have invaded Iraq if he was elected. I think he would have invaded Afghanistan and launched various Imperialist campaigns, and concentrated on Global Warming though he would have had little influence in the bourgeoisie system.

To be frank, I tend to like a lot of Democrats as people, but consider them monsters in their institutional role. The Republicans I despise on both counts and to greater degree. In fact, I like Obama as a person. After a revolution I would not propose executing him, I would consider far harsher punishments for Bush and Cheney.

The democrats may be "progressive", but they have little drive to do any thing real for people. They may be the lesser of two evils, but it's still "evil".

They are doing A LOT of damage to the left. My point here is that you'll look that a lot of working class people have thrown their lot in with Republicans because of the failures of Democrats to deliver on their promises.

And the socialists of America saw this a long time ago (Eugene V. Debs)

"As a rule, large capitalists are Republicans and small capitalists are Democrats, but workingmen must remember that they are all capitalists, and that the many small ones, like the fewer large ones, are all politically supporting their class interests, and this is always and everywhere the capitalist class."

"The capitalist class is represented by the Republican, Democratic, Populist and Prohibition parties, all of which stand for private ownership of the means of production, and the triumph of any one of which will mean continued wage-slavery to the working class."

"The Republican and Democratic parties are alike capitalist parties — differing only in being committed to different sets of capitalist interests — they have the same principles under varying colors, are equally corrupt and are one in their subservience to capital and their hostility to labor."

Invincible Summer
22nd March 2010, 07:22
The health care bill reeks with "hope" and "change" it's nauseating.

Oh wait... that must be something else... right... BULLSHIT!

Red Commissar
22nd March 2010, 07:42
The health care bill reeks with "hope" and "change" it's nauseating.

Oh wait... that must be something else... right... BULLSHIT!

The right, the Tea baggers- and the media- will still refer to this mess as "socialized" medicine, and irrevocably tie the negative impacts of this to "socialism", a word by itself which doesn't have good reputation in the states.

That is another thing I'm worried about here.

Barry Lyndon
22nd March 2010, 07:51
The only real difference in the Democrats and the Republicans is their function and tactics, not overall goals and ideology. When capitalism is in crises, the Democrats will come in and make some half-assed reforms to assuage working class anger and stave off rebellion. When the Democrats predictably fail because they are unable and unwilling to address capitalism's structural problems, public indignation will sweep the Republicans back into power who will then proceed to tear apart any progressive gains that have been made. This has been the give and take between the two bourgeois parties for about the last 70+ years(since the New Deal). The only meaningful reforms that the working class has ever made in that time period has been through grassroots movements from below(labor unions, womens groups, black activists, antiwar and environmental movements) holding the Democrats feet to the fire and forcing them, kicking and screaming, to enact progressive change. The problem is that, under capitalism, even the best sort of reform is ephemeral, if bourgeois liberal politicians can give it can be taken away. Therin, the only long term solution is to do away with capitalism.

Jimmie Higgins
22nd March 2010, 08:37
It's hard to tell sometimes if a reform (which is always incomplete in some way) is a step forward, step-back or just a misstep. I'm on the side of people who think that no bill would have been better than this.

For one thing, not one progressive demand was made or won on this bill. Before it even began, single-payer and other plans were taken off the table by the Democrats. Who goes into a heated negotiation with their most conservative offer first?! People who don't actually want to negotiate a good deal, that's who. This mess was compromised before a tea-bagger or republican ever even thought to be obstructionist and so when they did go on the offensive, the compromise was compromised further and further.

If health care supporters made some demands of their own and forced the Democrats to make concessions to left-populism and not just the conservatives, then it could be argued that the bill is a step in the right direction and people learned that they will need to push the government if they want anything good for workers, not just banks and the pentagon.

But we got the shaft and this corporate plan will fail and further help spread the myth that government programs are second-rate compared to the market.


That is true, but keep in mind the USSR collapsed when the Republicans were in charge. The GOP is far more anti-Communist then the Democrats. The Democrats are not so much our friend as much as a weaker and more fair enemy.Except for things like the Palmer raids and red scare under Woodrow Wilson (who also ordered the federal government facilities to be formally segregated), the Democrats who droped the atomic bombs, the Democrats that lied to convince the population to support the war in Vietnam, the Democrats who participated with McCarthy in the witch-hunts of reds.

They are far from weak, but they are definitely the enemy.


To make this concrete, I don't think Al Gore would have invaded Iraq if he was elected. I think he would have invaded Afghanistan and launched various Imperialist campaigns, and concentrated on Global Warming though he would have had little influence in the bourgeoisie system.That's what-ifs. Concretely, as VP, Gore said nothing as Clinton intervined militarily in more countries that Regan or W. Bush.

As Howard Zinn said, change doesn't depend on who's sitting in the white house, it depends on who is sitting in.

The Democrats (well they used to) say some good things that we might agree with in terms of reforms or union rights, and so I think we can say that people who (mistakenly but sincerely) believe in what the Democrats seemingly represent, although liberal, are people who are potential allies and might be won to a class-conscious view of politics - the party and it's operatives are not.

~Spectre
22nd March 2010, 10:14
The bill strengthens the chokehold that insurance has on the U.S.

From what I understand:

It forces people to buy insurance, or face a tax penalty. The people who this will most effect are the people for whom buying insurance is a losing gamble on the average (I.e. the average person he will lose money rather than break even or gain from services rendered), this is why the insurance companies were so eager for this provision.

That was included under the guise of "keeping costs down", but there is no actual regulation on price, it would take some sort of inexplicable change of behavior on the part of the insurance companies for this to be true. The business of business would suddenly have to stop being business.

The pre-existing condition thing seems to be a $100/day fine when your insurance company chooses to deny you coverage. It's a simple math exercise for them at that point (cost of fine v. cost of treatment), not a real legal impediment.

To pass this bill, Obama made a deal with the pharmaceuticals to continue the practice of not importing drugs, thus not even allowing other capitalists to compete in this market, as that would lower prices.

The government will still not use its massive purchasing power to negotiate drug prices either.

I'm also curious to see how the cuts in medicare will work out.


I mean the expanded medicaid thing is nice, as is the extension of family benefits, but the sum of the total parts is by no means a shining victory.

Dermezel
22nd March 2010, 14:26
The democrats may be "progressive", but they have little drive to do any thing real for people. They may be the lesser of two evils, but it's still "evil".

They are doing A LOT of damage to the left. My point here is that you'll look that a lot of working class people have thrown their lot in with Republicans because of the failures of Democrats to deliver on their promises.

The Stalinists made similar arguments under the social fascism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism) doctrine:


At the Sixth Congress of the Comintern in 1928, the end of capitalist stability and the beginning of the "Third Period" was proclaimed. The end of capitalism, accompanied with a working class revolution, was expected, and social democracy was identified as the main enemy of the Communists. This Comintern's theory had roots in Grigory Zinoviev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Zinoviev)'s argument that international social democracy is a wing of fascism. This view was accepted by Joseph Stalin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin) who described fascism and social democracy as "twin brothers", arguing that fascism depends on the active support of the social democracy and that the social democracy depends on the active support of fascism. After it was declared at the Sixth Congress, the theory of social fascism became accepted by the world Communist movement.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism#cite_note-0)

In that situation recognizing the lesser of two evils was the difference between a fatal and non-fatal mistake for the entire Communist movement of Germany.

You can argue that it is a unique historical situation, but I believe with a rising China the bourgeoisie will react much in the same way as when the Soviet Union began to rise.

The bourgeoisie Christian Right is in no way okay with the People's Republic owning the US debt and becoming the second largest economy in the world.

Dermezel
22nd March 2010, 14:34
What you just said is completely irrelevant though. So what if the Republicans were in power? By the late 80s, the USSR under Gorbachev was a capitalist regime, pure and simple. It only was socialist by name, and most socialists with a brain can attest to that fact.

I'm totally gonna have to disagree with that. The USSR still had the means of production largely under collective ownership, this is why the economy completely collapsed under privatization:


The move from communism to capitalism in Russia after 1991 was supposed to bring unprecedented prosperity. It did not. By the time of the rouble crisis of August 1998, output had fallen by almost half and poverty had increased from 2% of the population to over 40%. Likewise there was a huge social safety net. Health care was free. Housing was guaranteed. Income was guaranteed. Education was extremely anti-racist, anti-discrimination against women. You could travel from the far East of the USSR to the Ukraine on one week's pay check because air transport was collectively owned and there were price controls. And at one point the USSR had a higher life expectancy rate then the US (now life expectancy is lower then India's ).

Almost the entire economy was owned by the State.

And the Communist Party had firm political control It wasn't socialist because there was no free association of workers, but it was a Workers State that had some real, concrete revolutionary gains.

Little Bobby Hutton
22nd March 2010, 14:59
ITS A JOKE !!!
socialised medicine is the only way of not breaking our human rights .
Or do only the rich have the right to live

Robocommie
22nd March 2010, 15:03
Is Dermezel still going on about how the two classical liberalist parties are either social democratic or fascist? God-damnit.

Dimentio
22nd March 2010, 15:09
And now people will stop pushing for reform and we'll have to wait even longer for single payer than if the bill didn't pass.

This is a sorry excuse for a bill. 95% of Americans under 65 will be covered. What about the other 5%? What about the fact that health insurance companies still have the right to put a "cap" on annual payouts in this bill? That one thing should have at least been dealt with. If I have to pay the insurance companies I should be absolutely insured that if I need the money they will have to pay me. There's a limit to how low they can set the cap but plenty of cancer patients will still wind up bankrupt.

But what do you expect from bourgeois liberal capitalists.

Just wait the Republicans will widdle away the regulations on the health insurance industry when they get into office but they won't repeal mandatory coverage so we'll all be stuck having to pay money for substandard health insurance.

I don't entirely agree. Probably, if the Republicans fail to tear up the reform in the following years, it would receive so much support that the Democrats and Republicans could continue to build on it. Sadly, this reform was probably the most theyc ould achieve, given how many Blue Dog Democrats there are.

Guerrilla22
22nd March 2010, 15:24
I guess something is better than nothing. I'm still mad that a public option was not included.

h9socialist
22nd March 2010, 15:26
The "bottom line" (so to speak) is that if you want a socialist medical system DON'T rely on a bunch of capitalist flunkeys to implement it! If they did implement it the way we want, we wouldn't be seen as so radical! This is what this dysfunctional US capitalist politics can produce. Call it the piece of shit that it is but hope it will do some working people some good. And keep the revolutionary ideas coming so that some time soon we won't have to beggar capitalist politicians for a small modicum of justice. We can only expect true socialism from true socialists.

Little Bobby Hutton
22nd March 2010, 15:37
Communities should open their own medical facilities and take care of basic allignments themself, survival pending revolution.

Red Commissar
22nd March 2010, 16:55
I guess something is better than nothing. I'm still mad that a public option was not included.

That is what I'm angry about too. This reform was more of an attempt to sustain the private insurance industry. It's a lost opportunity.

The unions should realize by now the Democrats aren't serving their interests. But I'm afraid that their members might just go and vote Republican rather than come back to where working men truely have power...


Communities should open their own medical facilities and take care of basic allignments themself, survival pending revolution.

Good luck finding doctors who won't settle for making under $100,000. This is one of the reasons why we actually have a shortage of doctors in the country. Almost everyone doctor that comes out of medical school wants to go to an urban hospital, preferably a suburban one, where they are guaranteed to make a smooth six figure salary. Few of them go out into rural areas because there is not that guarantee they'll be rolling in the big bucks.

A public option would have at least guaranteed a doctor get a decent salary in rural areas and help deliver services there, but the aura of "PRIVATE COMPANIES ARE EFFICIENT AND PROVIDE COMPETITION FOR LOWER PRICES" sales pitch won out again...

Little Bobby Hutton
22nd March 2010, 16:57
force them to at gunpoint

h9socialist
22nd March 2010, 17:09
Look I'm mad that Congress won't take up a REAL public takeover of healthcare, like in Great Britain. The "public option" was a way of throwing the liberals a bone. I would have liked to have seen it too -- but it's only one loss in many. The only way we'll get medical socialism is through a socialist revolution of some sort. In the meantime, take some heart in watching an asshole like that idiot Boehner make a complete fool of himself on national TV. When conservatives sound so desperate, it at least is an indicator to me that something is going well. But, like I say, the inadequacy of this bill illustrates the need for radical change on the most fundamental level I US government.

GPDP
22nd March 2010, 17:21
Look I'm mad that Congress won't take up a REAL public takeover of healthcare, like in Great Britain. The "public option" was a way of throwing the liberals a bone. I would have liked to have seen it too -- but it's only one loss in many. The only way we'll get medical socialism is through a socialist revolution of some sort. In the meantime, take some heart in watching an asshole like that idiot Boehner make a complete fool of himself on national TV. When conservatives sound so desperate, it at least is an indicator to me that something is going well. But, like I say, the inadequacy of this bill illustrates the need for radical change on the most fundamental level I US government.

It's pretty much as restricted user RGacky3 says: if you want far-reaching social-democratic reform nowadays (in health care as with other things), you gotta threaten the bourgeois with revolution. And in several respects, I think he's right. The dynamics of power are such that the only thing that could at the very least put the U.S. in line with the rest of the "developed" world is a mass, organized movement of workers (and their allies) the likes of which has not been seen since the 30's.

Of course, I'm only talking about the threat of revolution here, not the actual waging of revolution. Obviously we'd like to go further still. But I think a decent case could be made for the attainment of meaningful social-democratic reform through mass mobilization as laying the groundwork for further victories and organizing experience and ever-increasing militancy that would eventually culminate into actual revolution.

Dermezel
22nd March 2010, 17:34
Again, we are never, ever going to get socialized medicine with class consciousness this low in the country. We need to organize and spread propaganda, first among petty bourgeoisie intellectuals- particularly young ones (since those are more open minded) and then among the workers when we have sufficient numbers. We begin with the petty bourgeoisie because they have the resources and time to learn the evidence for Marxism.

We must craft our propaganda efforts based on long-term neuroscientific principles: http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/showquestion.asp?faq=5&fldAuto=125

And until then, we must acknowledge that we are very much on the defensive and need to keep the means of organizing and campaigning open. We need to keep liberal-political freedoms as open as possible so we can organize.

The Democrats will not curtail our freedoms as wholesale as the Republicans. The Christian Right wishes to completely negate all free speech and assembly and outlaw leftist political thought. The Corporatists will do the same de facto if they are able to end Net Neutrality.

For this reason the Health Care Reformist Bill must be promoted as a tool by which to put the GOP down. While doing this, you should point to its flaws, and educate people about socialized medicine and Marxism. You can also note how Workers States like China and Cuba have extremely progressive health care systems despite having minuscule GDP per capita.

Chambered Word
22nd March 2010, 17:43
So there's STILL no public option?

Well fuck, I guess my mum got all hyped up about the bill for nothing. :rolleyes:

manic expression
22nd March 2010, 17:49
After thinking over the situation, I consider this result to hurt all parties involved. The passage will give a short-term defeat to the Teabaggers (whose rhetoric has turned downright fascistic over the past few weeks) and the Republicans. Moreover, I think the right-wing of the Republicans are fast isolating themselves from the rest of the political spectrum, while gaining more clout in the Republican party. This should reduce the appeal of the Republicans in the eyes of many.

At the same time, Obama and the Democrats are in danger of exposing their hand, as this "reform" makes things worse for workers in many ways (mandating the purchase of the same worthless insurance that doesn't equal care, weak price controls, etc.). Many Americans have been frustrated with what Obama hasn't done, but more powerful is anger at what has been done. Workers aren't going to look fondly upon terrible, pro-corporate legislation just because the Democrats are throwing confetti and popping the champagne. In fact, capitalist hypocrisy and arrogance will be further underlined by the whole charade.

Both sides of reaction, in my opinion, screwed themselves here. Their loss, as always, is our gain.

GPDP
22nd March 2010, 17:54
Again, we are never, ever going to get socialized medicine with class consciousness this low in the country. We need to organize and spread propaganda, first among petty bourgeoisie intellectuals- particularly young ones (since those are more open minded) and then among the workers when we have sufficient numbers. We begin with the petty bourgeoisie because they have the resources and time to learn the evidence for Marxism.

We must craft our propaganda efforts based on long-term neuroscientific principles: http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/showquestion.asp?faq=5&fldAuto=125

And until then, we must acknowledge that we are very much on the defensive and need to keep the means of organizing and campaigning open. We need to keep liberal-political freedoms as open as possible so we can organize.

The Democrats will not curtail our freedoms as wholesale as the Republicans. The Christian Right wishes to completely negate all free speech and assembly and outlaw leftist political thought. The Corporatists will do the same de facto if they are able to end Net Neutrality.

For this reason the Health Care Reformist Bill must be promoted as a tool by which to put the GOP down. While doing this, you should point to its flaws, and educate people about socialized medicine and Marxism. You can also note how Workers States like China and Cuba have extremely progressive health care systems despite having minuscule GDP per capita.

You give the far-right too much credit.

You sound a lot like Carl Davidson, the Leninist former webmaster of Progressives for Obama (now known as Progressive America Rising), who argued much the same points you do about how we need a "popular front" with liberals to stop the arch-reactionary right from taking power.

As for your proposition that we make it a priority to appeal to the petty-bourgeois before workers: good luck selling that here of all places.

Dermezel
22nd March 2010, 17:55
Well I am not surprised. The difference between Democrats and Republicans from an economic viewpoint is whether or not we get better quality scraps. Though I suppose for actual proletariat who might be saved by this bill or if it expands that can mean the difference between life and death.

If you are starving better scraps means a lot, but it is ridiculous we are even in that position. Like I said, the main benefit is political i.e. we do not have all our civil rights completely negated and all our social programs completely removed i.e. social security privatized, complete economic collapse, etc.

Also I worry at times whether or not the GOP would start an actual war with China. If China continues to grow, and they go right enough, and believe they have sufficiently strong counter-nukes or can win a Proxy War, they might do it. These fundamentalist nuts literally believe they will go to heaven if they nuke China.

h9socialist
22nd March 2010, 18:06
In the final analysis, all this thread points to is that there's still a lot of struggle left in front of us, Comrades. No doubt about it. But let's be objective in both directions. The healthcare legislation is woefully inadequate due to its bourgeois limitations. On the other hand, the US right wing suffered a pretty painful defeat last night. How this all plays out in history is anybody's guess. But I suspect that it was better for the bill to pass than to be defeated. Otherwise, the "powers that be" would have scared the politicians from touching this issue for another 25 years. At least this way the possibilities of successful struggles on this issue seem to be improved. This has some virtue because there's so much about the bill that needs to be corrected, and will require more struggle to correct.

manic expression
22nd March 2010, 18:22
h9socialist, no offense intended or anything, but are you politically drunk or something? Why are you to the right of many capitalist Democrats on this issue? Why are you pretending this was anything but a deal brokered by corporatist politicians and the corporate heads they protect? Answer those questions first, I have some others.

Edit: I just saw that your organization is the Democratic Socialists of America, while explains why you're supporting Obama, and why you'd be to the right of many capitalist Democrats. That basically answers my questions on its own.

anticap
22nd March 2010, 19:50
I'm seriously digging the frothing at the mouth replies in the comments sections of the newspapers. *makes some popcorn*

:lol: I wish I was like you. My response to reactionary disinformation and fear-mongering is, variously, either red-faced anger or red-faced tears. I can't seem to find pleasure it it, which puzzles me, since I am very much inclined to schadenfreude. I guess it's because I see their ignorance as my loss, rather than theirs. :(

anticap
22nd March 2010, 19:54
medicine which is free at the point of use is an aspect of socialism

According to anti-socialists, yes. (I don't mean to accuse you of such.)

Programs that emulate the results of socialism, without actually stemming from socialism, are arguably detrimental to the cause of socialism, because they don't actually change social relations, but instead placate the exploited masses a while longer.

Having said that, I can't bring myself to take such a cynical position as to advocate the denial of programs that will immediately benefit the working class (which does not describe this bill, incidentally). I just want to point out that there is nothing socialist about it. Take two societies, one socialist, one capitalist, have the capitalist one outwardly emulate the socialist one, and you will not have arrived at two socialist societies. You'll have one socialist society, and one society of placated wage-slaves.

The Vegan Marxist
22nd March 2010, 19:55
I was just informed that, through the passed bill, medicare coverage is now dropping its age limit down to around 20 - 25. If this is true, then FUCK YEAH! lol I'll be getting my coverage quite soon haha!

h9socialist
22nd March 2010, 19:57
Well, glad to know that I've lived long enough to be attacked from the Left again -- it's been a while. However, I have said nothing other than I think the law passed last night was woefully inadequate, and that it will take socialists to put forward a socialist program. I guess that makes me pretty right wing!

Yes, I come from that part of the Left that includes DSA, CPUSA, SPUSA, Solidarity and CCDS. I make no apologies for that.

anticap
22nd March 2010, 19:59
Obama will never implement socialism. Not unless he ruled for something like 6 terms and advocated a peaceful revolution. Obama represents a liberal element of the capitalist class.

Term limits is actually very much related to this sad fact. But I'm not calling for an end to term limits, so that we might get another FDR for several terms. No, no: I'm calling for a limit of one term, so that we no longer have this situation where the first term is spent placating the ruling class, with the working class holding their breath for a re-election (if it's a Democrat) so that they might finally get the scraps they were promised four years earlier, once the president is feeling footloose and fancy-free on the way out. Better to give them only one term, so they can be free to immediately push for some of the things they promised, and try make as big a splash as possible in their single term, in ways that will make them popular with the people and perhaps go down in history. (Wishful thinking, I know.)

manic expression
22nd March 2010, 20:06
h9socialist, don't play it that way. The questions I asked were pertinent (OK, so maybe the first one wasn't, but still)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7931053&mesg_id=7931084

Forgive me if that's not you. But on edit, it's your position and thus yours to justify, so it's not something I'll pursue too much.

Red Commissar
22nd March 2010, 20:06
Giving real healthcare reform would have put a chip in the United States' shrine to the free market and rabid individualism. Even one they have in the European Capitalist states would have required a total reworking of America's very foundation.

Of course, now you see why we advocate for revolution. We can't place the entirety of our bets in a liberal democratic system, or one will end up like the third way social democrats.

Looking at this, it gives us room for people to realize that the Democrats truly don't stand for progressive things and merely are cop outs. but will these disillusioned voters listen and join the struggle, or simply decide to vote Republican and get played by hegemony? I don't know.

It still amuses me to see some Obama supporters thinking he truly did something amazing. Their delusion knows no bounds.

As for collaborating with Democrats- when the 50s and 60s rolled on Max Shachtman advocated for the socialist movement to collaborate with Democrats, thinking it might pull them to the social democrat system, and eventually they would get somewhere... it's been well over 50 years after this, and it's all but worked very much against the movement, as history as shown time and time again.

anticap
22nd March 2010, 20:37
It's pretty much as restricted user RGacky3 says: if you want far-reaching social-democratic reform nowadays (in health care as with other things), you gotta threaten the bourgeois with revolution.

Sadly, the only revolutionary sentiment I see in the U$ at present is on the extreme-right. I see this as a failure on the part of the revolutionary Left to fit its various programs into the unique American context.

I'm a big proponent of revolutionary leftist militias. I want to see gun-toting commies/anarchies. Of course, this would spark an uproar from the establishment that would dwarf anything ever seen in response to the right-wing militias; but that would be a Good Thing, as I see it. The minuteman crowd is well-steeped in "Founding Fathers" dogma, but half the reason that's a right-wing phenomenon is simply due to quote-mining (granted, most of that goes back generations and is carefully fostered by the Right); but one can just as easily spin a populist tale from those same sources. Give those angry people a few quotations to demonstrate that their heroes actually had hearts (to the extent that they did), put a gun in their hands to give them a sense of empowerment (and to show them that the revolutionary Left is not aligned with the gun-grabbing liberals who would rather disempower them), put on some BBQ (and who doesn't love good BBQ? I know this leftist does) -- i.e., actually associate with them -- and the ranks will fill, I am sure of it. (I don't mean to paint any of this as sufficient, but I do think it is necessary. Agitating is about connecting with people as you find them, and embracing their values to the extent that you can.)

People need an outlet for their anger; they will take it where they find it, and where they are embraced, not ridiculed and dismissed. Material conditions in the U$ are unique; it is foolish to deny those conditions and to mock the outlets whereby angry working-class people vent. The RevLeft needs to get with the program and immerse itself in the real world as it exists, even if it means having to biting one's tongue. I truly believe that it's possible to foster leftist revolution in the U$, but not the way most organizations have traditionally gone about it (with all due respect to their hard-working memberships). It's about connecting with those who've been sold a bill of goods and showing them how their traditions actually point them in the opposite direction from what they were taught. I know: I spent many years with my head in those clouds. It really is just a matter of perspective; one's whole outlook can change once they view their traditions through a different lens.

I'm rambling, and off topic. But this means a lot to me. I feel there's an untapped avenue of approach for the revolutionary Left to reach people in this country. These teabagger types are not a lost cause -- and if they are, then the whole cause is lost, since the emancipation of the working class will be the work of the working class, and a large percentage of the working class shares a large percentage of those ideas, having been steeped in them from birth. 150 years post-Marx/Bakunin and that American mythos has not been supplanted with radical leftist ideas, despite valiant efforts. I really don't see it happening that way in this country. I think it will have to be a distinctly "Americanized" version. That's not to say watered down, or hidden, but... adjusted. A lot. And that's going to mean slaughtering a lot of sacred cows.

anticap
22nd March 2010, 20:40
h9socialist, don't play it that way. The questions I asked were pertinent

I don't think so. I think you come off as inquisitorial. I suppose I'll be next, in light of my last, rather unorthodox, post. :rolleyes:

Obrero Rebelde
22nd March 2010, 20:41
The bill passed by the House last night is not national health care reform, people. It's health care INSURANCE REFORM. It simply serves to regulate by law the various ruthless abuses of the people by the health insurance corporatists, if even that much. It's crumbs, as usual, meant to appease the more disgruntled suffering masses.

I heard today on the radio that Wall Street stocks in pharmaceuticals increased after last night because the pharmaceutical corporations apparently stand to make tons of money off of this bill since it brings more people to "afford" their prescription drugs -- 33 million to start with, eh? Somehow, the pharmaceutical corporations also got some kind of a deal giving them 12 years protection against generic drugs for their name prescription drugs. That's the way the capitalists take care of their own while pretending to take care of the masses of the people. Surprise, surprise? (Hardly, if we understand the true nature and collaboration of the Imperial government with its capitalist masters of the universe.)

Additionally, the bill is strewn with hidden anti-consumer mines, we can assume, such as the foregoing. The health insurance companies will get 33 million more "insured" at their mercy, so buy stocks now in that sector, folks, and maybe you'll score a few bucks to pay your mandated insurance premiums. lol lol lol

Not surprisingly and in deference to the reactionaries and their Tea Bagger brown shirts, the undocumented aka "illegal aliens" are prohibited from participating in the health care system, supposedly, just as federal funds will not be spent for abortions, under this bill. It took Obama's promise of some nebulous "executive order" (oh, how Bushy!) to get the anti-abortion sexist pigs in the Democratic Party to get onto the bandwagon in favor of this bill, assuring them that not a single cent of taxpayer money will go to abortions.

Did anyone notice that there was a national immigration rights demonstration in Washington, D.C., yesterday? I don't think it ever made the day's headlines and don't remember hearing anything about it on CNN or MSNBC. I would venture to say that the selection of yesterday as the day to pass the bill may have been deliberately timed to coincide with and black out the immigrant rights protests which supposedly was to draw upwards to 50,000 demonstrators from around the country.

Already, attorneys-general of several states have said on the media they will sue the federal government on this bill for alleged constitutional and states' rights violations. That should be interesting, or it could be just another gimmick by the reactionaries to keep this topic on the front burner of their Tea Party barbecue pit.

Which leads us to note what took place yesterday involving the Tea Party, their calling members of the Black Congressional Caucus "niggers" and Barney Frank, "faggot." This is what the revolutionary Left needs to reflect upon, in my opinion, because it appears that the capitalists in this country are having a horrible time appeasing their reactionary base at the same time as their popular and more (small "d") democratic-aspiring base, thus losing their ability to mitigate the class contradiction, which is nakedly expressed now in resurgent, escalating, increasingly more widespread racism and anti-gay bigotry.

The 2010 elections will be heated, the class contradiction will surely sharpen, and racist and anti-gay scapegoating will intensify. Should we envision lynch mobs, church burnings, attacks on gay clubs, "disappearances" of activist leaders?

Is the "revolutionary Left" in the USA (if there is truly a genuinely revolutionary Marxist-Leninist presence among us anymore) ready to roll?

Obrero Rebelde

GPDP
22nd March 2010, 20:49
Sadly, the only revolutionary sentiment I see in the U$ at present is on the extreme-right. I see this as a failure on the part of the revolutionary Left to fit its various programs into the unique American context.

I'm a big proponent of revolutionary leftist militias. I want to see gun-toting commies/anarchies. Of course, this would spark an uproar from the establishment that would dwarf anything ever seen in response to the right-wing militias; but that would be a Good Thing, as I see it. The minuteman crowd is well-steeped in "Founding Fathers" dogma, but half the reason that's a right-wing phenomenon is simply due to quote-mining (granted, most of that goes back generations and is carefully fostered by the Right); but one can just as easily spin a populist tale from those same sources. Give those angry people a few quotations to demonstrate that their heroes actually had hearts (to the extent that they did), put a gun in their hands to give them a sense of empowerment (and to show them that the revolutionary Left is not aligned with the gun-grabbing liberals who would rather disempower them), put on some BBQ (and who doesn't love good BBQ? I know this leftist does) -- i.e., actually associate with them -- and the ranks will fill, I am sure of it. (I don't mean to paint any of this as sufficient, but I do think it is necessary. Agitating is about connecting with people as you find them, and embracing their values to the extent that you can.)

People need an outlet for their anger; they will take it where they find it, and where they are embraced, not ridiculed and dismissed. Material conditions in the U$ are unique; it is foolish to deny those conditions and to mock the outlets whereby angry working-class people vent. The RevLeft needs to get with the program and immerse itself in the real world as it exists, even if it means having to biting one's tongue. I truly believe that it's possible to foster leftist revolution in the U$, but not the way most organizations have traditionally gone about it (with all due respect to their hard-working memberships). It's about connecting with those who've been sold a bill of goods and showing them how their traditions actually point them in the opposite direction from what they were taught. I know: I spent many years with my head in those clouds. It really is just a matter of perspective; one's whole outlook can change once they view their traditions through a different lens.

I'm rambling, and off topic. But this means a lot to me. I feel there's an untapped avenue of approach for the revolutionary Left to reach people in this country. These teabagger types are not a lost cause -- and if they are, then the whole cause is lost, since the emancipation of the working class will be the work of the working class, and a large percentage of the working class shares a large percentage of those ideas, having been steeped in them from birth. 150 years post-Marx/Bakunin and that American mythos has not been supplanted with radical leftist ideas, despite valiant efforts. I really don't see it happening that way in this country. I think it will have to be a distinctly "Americanized" version. That's not to say watered down, or hidden, but... adjusted. A lot. And that's going to mean slaughtering a lot of sacred cows.

A very insightful post. I've actually been meaning to talk about this very thing here, but I couldn't find the right words, I suppose.

It's obvious the American mythos is extremely pervasive, and I have been wondering for some time if pandering to it would help or hurt our cause. I know a leftist professor of mine often does it, citing the Constitution's preamble (mainly the "promote the general Welfare" part) to argue for national health care, for instance. Of course, he does not have illusions about the American mythos, and he often turns to criticize it on the next breath. But it seems to resonate with people when you cite portions of the mythology they have been brought up with since birth to argue for progressive goals.

Perhaps we ought to do the same, at least to some extent.

Martin Blank
22nd March 2010, 20:51
There's a lot that can be said about this bill. We can talk about the corporate welfare and kickbacks to Big Pharma. We can talk about the health care tax that criminalizes the poor and uninsured. But there is a bigger picture ... and a bigger issue.

Last night, the Democrats made a real push to declare that their bill established a "universal system" for the first time in the U.S. In and of itself, there is truth to the statement. But it leaves out an important fact: the new "universal system", for the first time in American history, establishes a class-based multi-tier health care system that mandates sub-standard health coverage for poor and working people.

On one end, you have the cuts to Medicaid and Medicare. According to the Democrats, these are being made to areas like Medicare Advantage programs (the private health insurance that spans the "gap" between what Medicare provides and what people need -- i.e., the important shit) and "overpayments" in both programs. However, since there are no oversight panels to see that the reduction in payments are being applied where Congress says they're supposed to go, the end result will be reduced quality of care for Medicaid and Medicare recipients (like me, goddammit!).

On the other end, you have the tax on the so-called "Cadillac plans" that mostly unionized workers fought for over the last five decades. The tax is a downward pressure on the quality of those health insurance plans; bosses will begin looking to cut costs by switching from comprehensive to PPO to HMO plans in order to come in under the tax threshold. The effect of the tax will be to establish lower-quality health insurance plans for all workers, since neither bosses nor workers will want to have to pay it.

In between these two ends you have the individual mandate and the penalties against the uninsured. The ending of pre-existing condition nullification means millions of new customers, most of them part of the working poor, who will be forced to buy insurance, either through their employer or on their own. If they don't, the fines, which are regulated by the Internal Revenue Service, will be levied. In order to "help" these working poor, the health insurance companies will create brand new "sub-prime" insurance plans (and make billions on their own credit default swaps!) for their fresh meat.

So, what you end up with are three tiers of health care: Medicaid/Medicare for the working poor, elderly and disabled; "sub-prime" health insurance plans that are stripped down to avoid the "Cadillac tax" for the rest of the working class (and some of the lowest layers of the "middle class") that doesn't qualify for Medicaid/Medicare; and quality health insurance plans for the capitalists and "middle class", who can afford the "Cadillac tax".

As a bonus, the Democrats get to divide the working class and pit it against itself, with workers getting "sub-prime" insurance being set against the working poor getting Medicaid/Medicare, and vice versa.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this was a piece of brutal class warfare disguised as "reform", and we should be organizing in opposition to the health care tax.

http://www.workers-party.com/members/hcr/chains_small.gif
(http://www.workers-party.com/members/hcr/chains_medium.gif)

Obrero Rebelde
22nd March 2010, 21:07
Thanks for that, Miles. I agree, a tiered health care system for a stratified working class -- ingenious capitalist innovation for the 21st Century.

No matter how they cut it, the bill screws the workers and especially fucks over the unemployed, under-employed, poor, disabled, elderly, and all strata of the communities of color.

Yes, we should fight the mandated health care tax. They should send that invoice to the Fortune 500 and America's wealthiest pigs.

Obrero Rebelde

Dimentio
22nd March 2010, 21:08
Sadly, when Americans are mass-mobilised today, it seems like they are mass-mobilising for reforms which would hurt those who are impoverished, which seems totally illogical to me. The most right-wing states in USA are also the most poor, with most trailer parks. Yet, they seem to dislike the democrats for being "snobbish liberals".

Nolan
22nd March 2010, 21:14
Sadly, when Americans are mass-mobilised today, it seems like they are mass-mobilising for reforms which would hurt those who are impoverished, which seems totally illogical to me. The most right-wing states in USA are also the most poor, with most trailer parks. Yet, they seem to dislike the democrats for being "snobbish liberals".

The american people have been brainwashed to be nationalist sheep, unfortunately. They'll gladly go against their own interests to attack anything "anti-american."

h9socialist
22nd March 2010, 21:17
And I stand by what I said on Democratic Underground. Obama is not the problem -- I happen to think he's a fairly good guy. And I've said that on RevLeft, as well as any other site. The system is what's screwed up. The Constitution is a dinosaur meant to protect private property. So to the extent that a US President is sworn to uphold it, puts him in a box right away.

Yes, I think it was better for the bill to pass than get shot down by the conservatives. That doesn't mean I think it's a wonderful bill. It means I have a pragmatic side that says it's better to make some progress than come up empty handed. Moreover, I was very unpragmatic in 1994 -- single payer all the way -- the left fractured and nothing got done. These things don't happen as fast as I'd like them to. I think revolution is justified. But I see no sense in turning so cynical that I trash the possible in pursuit of the perfect. And the truth is that it's going to take long, historic efforts to change the US. It took centuries to get here -- history doesn't turn on a dime!

I am roughly of the same mindset as Michael Moore -- it was not the healthcare bill I wanted, but for it to go down would have been a disaster. If for no other reason than it would've ended the public's hope that things could change. Revolutions don't happen when people feel hopeless!

I will state again. Socialism will not be created by capitalist politics -- and that's true of the healthcare system. However, some gains are possible and it would be senseless to throw them away. As to being a "brokered bill" -- I know that.

I also know that if you want to boycott every capitalist in this world today, you'll starve to death. Well, there will be people who will have health care because of last night's vote -- and they don't give a shit about your pie-in-the-sky revolutionary ambitions. All they want is to have their illness tended to. Maybe it's un-radical to suggest that the Left be pragmatic enough to have a politics that addresses immediate needs rather than constantly heralding the apocalypse. But, frankly, such pragmatism is necessary -- because until the Left shows it can "deliver the goods" nobody's going to come along with you.

And yes, I believe in a "visionary gradualism" that Michael Harrington discussed in his last book "Socialism: Past and Future. If we lived in Cuba in 1959, I'd say that was bullshit. But I live in the U.S. and a revolutionary apocalypse is not exactly imminent. And socialism itself will not spring forth in an instant orgasm of revolutionary fervor. It will happen through vision, through values and through perseverance. And this is the most explaining I've done in a long time . . .

Martin Blank
22nd March 2010, 21:21
Sadly, when Americans are mass-mobilised today, it seems like they are mass-mobilising for reforms which would hurt those who are impoverished, which seems totally illogical to me. The most right-wing states in USA are also the most poor, with most trailer parks. Yet, they seem to dislike the democrats for being "snobbish liberals".

Well, most of the left is too busy begging the Democrats to worry about mobilizing workers independently, and those of us who want to organize independent mobilizations are, sadly, too few and far between. The vacuum is thus filled by the Nativists and fascists.

Martin Blank
22nd March 2010, 21:35
I also know that if you want to boycott every capitalist in this world today, you'll starve to death. Well, there will be people who will have health care because of last night's vote -- and they don't give a shit about your pie-in-the-sky revolutionary ambitions. All they want is to have their illness tended to. Maybe it's un-radical to suggest that the Left be pragmatic enough to have a politics that addresses immediate needs rather than constantly heralding the apocalypse. But, frankly, such pragmatism is necessary -- because until the Left shows it can "deliver the goods" nobody's going to come along with you.

Since you're an obvious reformist, and thus your time as an unrestricted member is measured in minutes, I'll be brief.

Your talk of pragmatism and "delivering the goods" might keep you warm at night, but it's my life you're playing with, so don't you dare pretend to speak for those of us who have been without health coverage for so long -- who have hundreds of thousands of dollars of bills from hospital visits because the alternative was early death. This bill condemns me to receive sub-standard care for the rest of my life ... unless I fucking hit the lottery and can afford a "Cadillac plan".

Sure, I imagine that a lot of people who are like me will be happy with what they get from this bill. A thirsty person will drink the foulest of water if it's their only option. And that's what you Democrats are offering poor and working people: fouled water. It's certainly nothing fit for human beings.

I hope you can find good use for the 30 pieces of silver you've received. I'm sure the libertarians in OI can give you some solid investment advice otherwise.

anticap
22nd March 2010, 23:35
Sadly, when Americans are mass-mobilised today, it seems like they are mass-mobilising for reforms which would hurt those who are impoverished, which seems totally illogical to me. The most right-wing states in USA are also the most poor, with most trailer parks. Yet, they seem to dislike the democrats for being "snobbish liberals".

And in light of that material reality, anyone to the left of the Republicans who would like to gain the support of those working-class Americans had better drop any attitudes that might be perceived as snobbish (rightly or wrongly).

~Spectre
23rd March 2010, 00:19
Giving real healthcare reform would have put a chip in the United States' shrine to the free market


I get the point you are trying to make comrade, but we must be careful with such terms.

Their healthcare system is not free market. They hide behind the freemarket and use it as a massive illusion. Thus, they make our socialist agenda have to shoot down the theoritical free market, instead of what the status quo here really is which is pro-corporate and pro-business (there is actually a slight distinction). The free market is the term they use to obscure reality, which is that they manipulate every variable they can to try and reap the strongest advantage possible for them and their class interest.

As I mentioned, part of Obama's reform included pledging not to allow even other capitalists to compete with the domestic pharmaceutical industry.

manic expression
23rd March 2010, 00:31
Between celebrations over anti-worker legislation and the proposal that the left needs to act more like the Teabaggers ( :rolleyes: )...this thread has a lot of room for improvement, to say the least.

To people who seem to think the left has never appealed to "American traditions", try looking up the Abraham Lincoln Brigades. See how Fidel treated the Lincoln Memorial when he visited DC after the Revolution. I'm on record here for defending progressive nationalism/patriotism, so this is nothing new to me, or to the left.

To people who think that workers aren't being mobilized, I know it might seem that way from the news, but the recent anti-war demonstrations were (from what I can tell) far larger than anything the Teabaggers put together, and that's without mentioning the immigration reform demonstration that happened recently as well. Working-class mobilization is happening in the US, make no mistake about it, and the "snobbish liberals" (and liberals can be quite snobbish) have nothing to do with it.


And in light of that material reality, anyone to the left of the Republicans who would like to gain the support of those working-class Americans had better drop any attitudes that might be perceived as snobbish (rightly or wrongly).
You mean like typing U$ instead of US? :lol:

Wolf Larson
23rd March 2010, 00:33
I'm about to blow up in this thread. I'm too angry to get my point across after reading some of the posts in here so I'll come back later when my post won't be one big fuck you to the idiots passively supporting this. I guess I said fuck you just now anyway....oops. I'll edit this post when I'm not seething with anger and explain to you [liberals] why we should have been in the streets opposing this bill and I'll also explain why we ,on the real left, are impotent.

So called socialists and revolutionaries supporting Keynesian crony capitalism. This is absurd.

Martin Blank
23rd March 2010, 00:49
I'm about to blow up in this thread. I'm too angry to get my point across after reading some of the posts in here so I'll come back later when my post won't be one big fuck you to the idiots passively supporting this. I guess I said fuck you just now anyway....oops. I'll edit this post when I'm not seething with anger and explain to you [liberals] why we should have been in the streets opposing this bill and I'll also explain why we ,on the real left, are impotent.

So called socialists and revolutionaries supporting Keynesian crony capitalism. This is absurd.

You'll be howling into the wind, Wolf. The DSA reformist is long gone (got a nice little nasty-gram from him on his way out, too).

anticap
23rd March 2010, 01:13
You mean like typing U$ instead of US? :lol:

I only do that online, in like-minded company. :lol:

But that's a fair enough example, yes. A "Patriot" might take issue with it. Then again, maybe not; many such folks are right there with us when it comes to the moneyed interests running D.C. It's just that they don't think in the same terms. So the divide is often not as wide as we may think. But yeah, I would think twice before using U$ is certain company. But here? oh I just love it so! :wub:

The top half of your post I'm going to mostly ignore, because the proof is in the pudding, and a great percentage of working-class ire is, for the time being anyway (let us hope not for much longer), on the extreme Right, just as I said. But of course you know this, you're just feeling wounded, as though I had criticized you personally for failing to bring on the revolution. Get over yourself.

manic expression
23rd March 2010, 01:30
As long as you're aware of it, I guess. But anyway, no, the divide is not very wide at all, it's just a matter of reaching more workers. The rhetoric doesn't need to change, it just needs to get louder.

RadioRaheem84
23rd March 2010, 01:37
This is probably the best we're going to get in this country. It's sad but any time of attempt at social democratic reform in this country always has to involve not stepping on the toes of private industry and always making sure they profit the most over the American people. It's sickening. The way we go to school, the way we're going to have health care, the way we receive welfare, EVERYTHING involves some corporation making money off of it. All we do in this country is subsidize business, even when it involves social benefits programs.

This bill is no different. It was a major subsidized package for the insurance agencies. While I am happy that a public option was attached to it, I really wish that we would do just ONE thing, just one social benefits program where a private corporation won't benefit from.

CartCollector
23rd March 2010, 01:46
Well if the problem with US class consciousness is patriotism, nationalism, nativism, American exceptionalism, etc etc, the question we have to ask is, why? Is it because Americans just don't know how bad off they are and believe that what they have is the best they can get? Or is it because they want to believe that their country is the best? There is evidence for the second point- remember, most of the soldiers in the military are working class or not much better off, so it behooves them to believe that they are really fighting for freedom and democracy. Telling them that America is an undemocratic exploiting empire that fights only to get resources is offensive to them. It's telling them they've been fighting for the wrong side and that all the effort they gave and their friends's and fathers' and husbands' and sons' lives were for nothing. Nothing at all, except to expand the wallets of a few elites. Not to mention, there is a joy that comes from believing that the country you live in is the best country, the vanguard of freedom and democracy. So again the question is: is it willful ignorance, just ignorance, or a combination of both, that leads to the unique conditions in America?

spiltteeth
23rd March 2010, 03:01
this bill is obviously disgusting and outrageous, but in some ways better at least - like getting shot in the gut instead of the head- how nice of them!

The gov throws a couple crumbs to keep us believing...

here's an article on health care from Chris Hedges - short and sweet :

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_health_care_hindenburg_has_landed_20100322/?ln

he says it's the health care industry’s version of the Wall Street bailout.

It lavishes hundreds of billions in government subsidies on insurance and drug companies.

He makes the following points :


*The bill will not expand coverage to 30 million uninsured, especially since government subsidies will not take effect until 2014.

*Families who cannot pay the high premiums, deductibles and co-payments, estimated to be between 15 and 18 percent of most family incomes, will have to default, increasing the number of uninsured.

*Insurance companies can unilaterally raise prices without ceilings or caps and monopolize local markets to shut out competitors.

*The 45,000 Americans who die each year because they cannot afford coverage will not be saved under the federal legislation.

*Half of all personal bankruptcies will still be caused by an inability to pay astronomical medical bills.

*The only good news is that health care stocks and bonuses for the heads of these corporations are shooting upward.

This is an overtly CAPITALIST bill.

Jimmie Higgins
23rd March 2010, 03:10
Sadly, when Americans are mass-mobilised today, it seems like they are mass-mobilising for reforms which would hurt those who are impoverished, which seems totally illogical to me. The most right-wing states in USA are also the most poor, with most trailer parks. Yet, they seem to dislike the democrats for being "snobbish liberals".
The myth of the american workers essential conservativism is greatly exagerated and a creation of politicians and the media... like Hilary Clinton's mythical "hard-working white americans" Joe the Plummer's mythical "Joe the Plummer:lol:" and the mythical military mothers who cry if you criticize the war. These myths are designed to stiffle dissent - when people advocate change inevitably some liberal politician comes along and says: "I support you, but working people won't go for it" or "I'm against war too, but don't have that rally because it might offend military mothers".

Why do so many radicals follow the mainstream media logic on some things when it comes to characterizations of "the American people". 80% of the US population is urban and most of them are workers and are not tea-partiers. These "mass mobilizations" have been loud and roudy and full of white retired people - they do not reflect the majority concerns and are no larger in size than LGBT actions against prop 8 in California, the National Equality March, the immigration marches (which on May Day a few years back had hundreds of thousands of workers marching - more than the anti-war marches and certainly more than the few thousand tea-party protesters). And in level of anger - I'm pretty sure the students and workers occupying buildings in California are pretty damn mad.

The media always maintains these stereotypes that the independant voter are the white male "swing voters" when this is 1-2% of the electrate and 40% of the electorate never bother to vote and are largely urban, young, and minorites. When they talk about "workers" they always talk about white men (often petty bourgoise too, strangely enough) whereas the reality is that women are a slim amjority of workers now and most workers work in service, shipping, clerical jobs and the vast majority have major issues with healthcare.

So the majority of mass-mobilizations are in our neighborhood, not the right-wing. In fact before the tea-parties, the last "mass mobilization" of the right-wing were a few hundred Terry-Shivo anti-euthenasia protesters.

All of this is not to say that all is fine for the left - far from it - just a corrective to the way politics and consiousness of working people is presented by the media and politicians. We obviously need more organization and more mass mobilizations and more grassroots actions by workers.

Sorry for singling you out comrade, my comments are more about a slew of posts along these lines and a lot of posts I've read on revleft.

RadioRaheem84
23rd March 2010, 03:17
It has largely to do with the fact that the upper crust has so thoroughly convinced the lower classes that no matter how bad of a deal we get when compromising our interests that we'll be able to subsist. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard working class people say that as along as I can have enough money, a job, and a roof over my head, then I am ok and the rich can do whatever they want. Others say, that it's ok, we don't need government intervention because we can still make eek by and live. They don't understand that in the grand scheme of things, we lose BIG. With every recession, we have to scale back our standard of living.

Jimmie Higgins
23rd March 2010, 03:18
Well if the problem with US class consciousness is patriotism, nationalism, nativism, American exceptionalism, etc etc, the question we have to ask is, why? Is it because Americans just don't know how bad off they are and believe that what they have is the best they can get? Or is it because they want to believe that their country is the best? There is evidence for the second point- remember, most of the soldiers in the military are working class or not much better off, so it behooves them to believe that they are really fighting for freedom and democracy. Telling them that America is an undemocratic exploiting empire that fights only to get resources is offensive to them. It's telling them they've been fighting for the wrong side and that all the effort they gave and their friends's and fathers' and husbands' and sons' lives were for nothing. Nothing at all, except to expand the wallets of a few elites. Not to mention, there is a joy that comes from believing that the country you live in is the best country, the vanguard of freedom and democracy. So again the question is: is it willful ignorance, just ignorance, or a combination of both, that leads to the unique conditions in America?Neither - It's complicated and there are many factors, but I think in general it's due to 2 interconnected things:

1. Repression - the black panthers and new left were smashed, the communist party (problematic as it was) was pushed out of the unions and then isolated and marginalized in the 1950s.

2. Co-option - the Democratic party sucks in "cooperative" sections of workers and oppressed peoples movements and then suffocates them.

In Europe and parts of Latin America, the left has been able to establish permanent parties and keep their ties to the working class. If you are A French worker you probably have first-hand experience with a mass labor mobilization because there have been at least 4 major ones in the last two decades. So you can talk about solidarity and militancy and people can understand it from their own experience. In the US, this is not the case at all, the business-unions act like a strike is a regretable tragety, not an act of self-defense - in fact all liberal organizations are apologetic about taking action and this de-mobilizes people and reduces their confidence to act in their own interests.

Jimmie Higgins
23rd March 2010, 03:21
It has largely to do with the fact that the upper crust has so thoroughly convinced the lower classes that no matter how bad of a deal we get when compromising our interests that we'll be able to subsist. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard working class people say that as along as I can have enough money, a job, and a roof over my head, then I am ok and the rich can do whatever they want. Others say, that it's ok, we don't need government intervention because we can still make eek by and live. They don't understand that in the grand scheme of things, we lose BIG. With every recession, we have to scale back our standard of living.
Very true - people are beat down and have low expectations. This leads to inactivity for the majority of workers - why fight if you don't think you will or even deserve to win. For others it creates cynicism and the attitude that if they can't expect job security, health-care and a decent living standard as a worker, it's better to root for the petty bourgeois and hope you become one or hit the lotto and become rich.

La Comédie Noire
23rd March 2010, 03:27
The "Public Option" will only insure a mere 6 - 11 million Americans which seems like a lot until you consider it was suppose to insure between 60 - 120 million. But here is the sickest part, the "public option", through loopholes, will be a dumping ground for the worse of the worse, those so sick you couldn't even make a slight profit off providing them care.

The worst fucking part is all people care about is how much it will raise their taxes, they are too brainwashed to realize they're about to pay more in insurance premiums than they'd ever lose from taxes.

Red Commissar
23rd March 2010, 03:51
The "Public Option" will only insure a mere 6 - 11 million Americans which seems like a lot until you consider it was suppose to insure between 60 - 120 million. But here is the sickest part, the "public option", through loopholes, will be a dumping ground for the worse of the worse, those so sick you couldn't even make a slight profit off providing them care.

The worst fucking part is all people care about is how much it will raise their taxes, they are too brainwashed to realize they're about to pay more in insurance premiums than they'd ever lose from taxes.

Public option was thrown out during the debate in the senate.

They're only going to settle for regulating everything through this "Insurance Exchange", and everyone will be required to buy into a plan. Subsidization will be used to make it more affordable for people who qualify.

Again, the only thing I can think of to compare this to is the system in Massachusetts.

La Comédie Noire
23rd March 2010, 04:08
Public option was thrown out during the debate in the senate.

They're only going to settle for regulating everything through this "Insurance Exchange", and everyone will be required to buy into a plan. Subsidization will be used to make it more affordable for people who qualify.

Again, the only thing I can think of to compare this to is the system in Massachusetts.

I live in Mass, but I'm on a different plan, pretty decent plan, because my Dad's in a union, AFSCME.

I didn't know they through out the Public Option though I didn't think it would be that weak.

Red Commissar
23rd March 2010, 05:19
I didn't know they through out the Public Option though I didn't think it would be that weak.

Along with the problems over immigrants and abortion, the public option was one of the heavily debated areas. When the plan dragged out through the summer it seems Obama and the Democratic leadership saw that they could cut out the public option in order to get the votes they needed.

The debate in the senate dragging into a rare Christmas session is partially one reason why ultimately it was cut out. They had seemingly tried to find some way to get the "blue dogs" and even a few Republicans on board, but this failed, so ultimately

The only attempt it seemed to do something along the lines of a public option was when Bernie Sanders wrote a bill outlaying the way a Single-Payer system could have been implemented. The republicans read his proposal to waste and kill time, to delay debate. A filibuster in effect, I suppose.

For a liberal capitalist this might be sufficient (it's really more of moderate decision for what it's worth, they avoided rocking the boat too much), but it's not something along our lines.

I'm afraid the American populace are too deluded into the shrine of free market, thinking private competition will fix everything. I know the Republicans half-assed attempt at reform detailed a plan allowing insurers to sell policies across state lines, and in their erasoning make the industry more "competitive". We saw how wonderfully that worked with banking ;)

Competition was natural enough at one time, but do you think you are competing today? Many of you think you are. Against whom? Against Rockefeller? About as I would if I had a wheelbarrow and competed with the Santa Fe from here to Kansas City. ~Debs

I think that argument still holds relevance today, though he was comparing it to a railroad.

OldMoney
23rd March 2010, 06:44
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with the american people? There gouvernment puts thru a bill to regulate the insurance companies that have been screwing them for years, and they think its socialism. A national healthcare plan is only civalized in a country with that much capitol. How can the republicans even go against that, doesnt thier jesus command them to help those in need? Ive been to some states where u cant by a drink on sunday because of the lord, yet thier willing to let people die every day? It enrages me when people refer to this administration as socialst. This is the president of the most oppresive imperialist regime in the worl today. Makes me sick, good luck to any of my commrades in the belly of the beast.

h0lmes
23rd March 2010, 20:19
This bill is a steaming pile of shit. The public option was the key because it was designed to keep prices down. But this bill doesn't include a public option or anything like it so it's a sorry excuse for health care reform. Now, everybody is required to purchase insurance. If you make less than 88 thousand a year you start to get subsidies and some people get it for free. But for everybody else, like my father who works his ass off and can still barely afford insurance, premiums WILL GO UP, period. This bill is just a handout to the insurance industry. Now that they no longer have to keep prices down in order to attract customers, the government just gave them 32 million customers and they are now free to charge whatever they want which will inevitably be high because now we have to pick up the tab for all the welfare scumbags and illegal immigrants. Fuck the government.

Oh and don't think for a second that the Democrats are some how on our side. They are just as money/power hungry as the Republicans except they are more likely to use the state as a means of gaining money and power.

Communist
23rd March 2010, 20:59
Now that they no longer have to keep prices down in order to attract customers, the government just gave them 32 million customers and they are now free to charge whatever they want which will inevitably be high because now we have to pick up the tab for all the welfare scumbags and illegal immigrants. Fuck the government.

Not a very revolutionary analysis. Most will say that is reactionary and repugnant, me among them.

.

Martin Blank
23rd March 2010, 21:24
Not a very revolutionary analysis. Most will say that is reactionary and repugnant, me among them.

Me too. Luckily, there is a remedy.

Monkey Riding Dragon
24th March 2010, 17:56
I have the distinct feeling that those who are celebrating the passage of this "historic measure" (as our press calls it) are largely ignorant as to its contents and intent. It is a wholly reactionary, neo-liberal bill.

1) The primary aim of the health care legislation was to save the American corporate establishment (understood broadly) money. Everyone knows (or should know) that American companies have long been seeking to remove health expenses from their list of covered benefits. This legislation provides them with a comparatively inexpensive alternative: a small fine, the paying of which pushes workers into the government's newly created private insurance pools.

2) In fundamental contrast to single-payer systems, the American health care reform aims secondary to accelerate the privatization of the health care field. Think about it: the measure we're speaking of will effectively subsidize the medical insurance industry by guaranteeing it tens of millions of new paying customers over time, while simultaneously slashing $500 billion from Medicare, the government provider of semi-free health insurance to the elderly. You do the math on that. Indeed, without the slashing of these hundreds of billions of dollars from Medicare, the government wouldn't accomplish its secondary aim of saving itself money on the provision of health services. The Congressional Budget Office would have been unable to report that the plan would save the federal government $138 billion over 10 years. Masses of people will be dumped into stripped-down, substandard medical plans, while the wealthy will continue to enjoy the best health care money can buy. And tens of millions will still be left without any health insurance at all, even after all is said and done; a far cry from the "universal health care" slogan that started this whole nonsense.

3) Finally, the bill in question also puts into place Mr. Stupak's demanded abortion ban. This constitutes the most sweeping attack on abortion rights since abortion was first made legal by the Roe V. Wade case in 1973. It's the first measure to pass at the national level that actually bars private insurers from covering abortions. This restriction will affect all who are poor enough to have to buy into Mr. Obama's scheme. (And you will legally have to.) In essence, being poor will now come to mean losing your abortion rights, in addition to receiving inferior health coverage in general.

Explain to me where the progress is because I must be missing it.

As to the market-structured "public option" schemes, they never exactly offered a serious alternative in the first place. These schemes were dropped completely back in December under the farcical claim that doing so was necessary to suck up to the Republicans and acquire their ostensibly necessary votes. Once it was finally discovered that acquiring "bipartisan" support for the measure was impossible though, you'll notice the Democrats didn't bother re-instating the public option as part of their reform. Neither are Republicans to blame for the new, sweeping abortion ban therein. This was introduced in order to appeal to anti-abortion Democrats and was personally backed by Mr. Obama with his pledge to ensure Mr. Stupak's satisfaction with an executive order. (You'll note the unconstitutional methodology.) There is no excuse. This bill, including all of its reactionary contents, is clearly a Democratic Party measure. It was passed amid unanimous Republican opposition and amid the opposition of most of the U.S. public. The latter in particular can be contrasted with the historical enactment of such reforms as Social Security and Medicare, which were demanded by the masses. This measure, by contrast, is unpopular from the get-go. It's entirely been conceived, developed, and enacted from above. It's only one part of the president's broader right wing domestic agenda of accelerating the privatization of health care, education, and space travel, while gutting Social Security and saving Wall Street from itself. Obama is able to accomplish more in these capacities than his predecessor because of the alignment of the trade unions with the Democrats. That's a major part of the reason he and the Democrats were allowed to win election in 2008.

Glenn Beck
24th March 2010, 18:59
The myth of the american workers essential conservativism is greatly exagerated and a creation of politicians and the media... like Hilary Clinton's mythical "hard-working white americans" Joe the Plummer's mythical "Joe the Plummer:lol:" and the mythical military mothers who cry if you criticize the war. These myths are designed to stiffle dissent - when people advocate change inevitably some liberal politician comes along and says: "I support you, but working people won't go for it" or "I'm against war too, but don't have that rally because it might offend military mothers".

Why do so many radicals follow the mainstream media logic on some things when it comes to characterizations of "the American people". 80% of the US population is urban and most of them are workers and are not tea-partiers. These "mass mobilizations" have been loud and roudy and full of white retired people - they do not reflect the majority concerns and are no larger in size than LGBT actions against prop 8 in California, the National Equality March, the immigration marches (which on May Day a few years back had hundreds of thousands of workers marching - more than the anti-war marches and certainly more than the few thousand tea-party protesters). And in level of anger - I'm pretty sure the students and workers occupying buildings in California are pretty damn mad.

The media always maintains these stereotypes that the independant voter are the white male "swing voters" when this is 1-2% of the electrate and 40% of the electorate never bother to vote and are largely urban, young, and minorites. When they talk about "workers" they always talk about white men (often petty bourgoise too, strangely enough) whereas the reality is that women are a slim amjority of workers now and most workers work in service, shipping, clerical jobs and the vast majority have major issues with healthcare.

So the majority of mass-mobilizations are in our neighborhood, not the right-wing. In fact before the tea-parties, the last "mass mobilization" of the right-wing were a few hundred Terry-Shivo anti-euthenasia protesters.

All of this is not to say that all is fine for the left - far from it - just a corrective to the way politics and consiousness of working people is presented by the media and politicians. We obviously need more organization and more mass mobilizations and more grassroots actions by workers.

Sorry for singling you out comrade, my comments are more about a slew of posts along these lines and a lot of posts I've read on revleft.

This. When there is a progressive protest in the United States the media does not even cover it until it can be twisted to serve a narrative they favor. It's simply not considered newsworthy most of the time, generally the job of covering protest is delegated to local news which tend to take the usual "irrelevant, isolated, and irresponsible hippies and malcontents" line.

Check out this if you don't believe me:
http://www.google.com/search?q=march+for+america&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=vEV&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&prmd=nl&tbs=nws:1&tbo=u&ei=6U-qS4P7H8W0tgec1vCsBQ&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=5&ved=0CDUQsQQwBA

Here's the only positive and journalistic report on the entire front page of the search results, from a relatively obscure ethnic periodical; not a national newspaper.: http://www.asianjournal.com/dateline-usa/15-dateline-usa/4933-more-than-200000-march-in-dc-to-fight-for-immigration-reform.html

The rest of the stories are commentary, mostly crap from right-wing pundits *****ing about amnesty, which they have successfully turned into a weasel word with the complicity of the media gatekeepers.

The problem is that we do not get equal time. A bunch of old "middle American" crackers get together to light their farts in public and the proceedings are imbued with an aura of respectability and significance. Struggling workers and ethnic minorities march in huge numbers for issues of their very security and survival and the event is lucky to get even factually deficient and condescending coverage. Even Americans come to believe the stories they are being fed about themselves and think that only they and perhaps close friends and family feel the way they do and there's ultimately nothing to be done.

Really U.S. media coverage of counter-hegemonic protest doesn't compare very favorably to even Russian or Iranian media.

Monkey Riding Dragon
25th March 2010, 12:08
Never have I yet had the opportunity to show the GOP as defending anything I might identify myself with. Yet here is an odd example of exactly that: (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100325/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul)


Democrats also deflected GOP amendments rolling back the health law's Medicare cuts...
Not that the Republican Party is exactly what we might call a defender of the public interest. They've taken some very alarming steps lately bordering on secessionism. (e.g. This lawsuit over the reform bill on the grounds of "state's rights".) I just found it interesting that here was the opposition party actually, in a very rare showing, opposing reductions in Medicare funding, and the Democrats refused to take the opportunity to maintain the program's financing levels. It's just something I thought was worth taking note of regarding the real character of the Democratic Party. Just like they didn't take the opportunity to re-instate the public option after they decided to go ahead without the support of any Republicans for example and pursued the abortion ban I spoke of unilaterally.

Communist
26th March 2010, 06:07
.
This Was A Big Win (http://progressivesforobama.blogspot.com/)

By Tom Hayden
March 24, 2010

This is not the time for progressives to mourn the
defeat of single-payer or the public option, it is the
time to cheer the health care victory as an important
victory and prepare to stop the right-wing in their
tracks and discredit their religion of market
fundamentalism. It's the time to push further against
that same fundamentalism by demanding such reforms as
regulation of Wall Street and a rollback of the Supreme
Court decision on campaign finance - all before the
November election.

We did not achieve what was politically-impossible,
Medicare for All. Insurance companies and Big Pharma
will benefit from the health care legislation, but the
Machiavellians always get their pound of flesh in
exchange for conceding reform. We added new health
protections for millions of Americans, opened
possibilities for further health reforms, and avoided
the beginning of the end of the Obama era, which frankly
is what the unified right-wing is still trying to bring
about.

It is the nature of social movements to fragment and
decline when they achieve victories which fall short of
their hopes and dreams. It is the nature of counter-
movements to become more dangerous and unified when they
feel threatened with decline.

There is plenty of analysis of how the public came out
ahead in this final package despite all its flaws and
chicanery. Let me add one fundamental point no one has
mentioned:

Passage of a trillion-dollar health care package means a
trillion dollars not available to the Pentagon for their
long war.

In his book making the case for the US as a modern
Goliath, the conservative political philosopher Michael
Mandelbaum wrote of his fear that Sixties social
programs will undermine the appetite and resources for
empire, which he described as an American "world
government." [MM, The Case for Goliath: How America Acts
as the World's Government for the 21st Century, Public
Affairs, 2005]

"Democracy [will] favor butter over guns", Mandelbaum
worried. As programs like health care expand and social
security cutbacks are fought, "it will become
increasingly difficult for the foreign policy elite to
persuade the wider public to support the kinds of
policies that, collectively, make up the American role
as the world's government. Foreign policy will be
relegated to the back burner", he groused.

We have no moral right or even competence to be "the
world's government", of course. The more we invest in
our domestic needs - health care, schools and
universities, environmental restoration, green jobs -
the more unsustainable become trillion-dollar wars in
Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and beyond. The seeds
of an alternative foreign policy lie in building an
alternative domestic one. #

[Tom Hayden, former California state senator, the Nation
Institute's Carey McWilliams Fellow, has played an active
role in American politics and history for over three decades,
beginning with the student, civil rights and antiwar movements of
the 1960s. Hayden was elected to the California State Legislature
in 1982, where he served for ten years in the Assembly
before being elected to the State Senate in 1992, where
he served eight years.]

==========

.

Q
26th March 2010, 14:43
Analysis from Socialist Alternative (http://socialistalternative.org/news/article10.php?id=1328):


Democrats Pass Health Care Bill. But is this a Reason to Celebrate?

Mar 25, 2010
By Fran Karas

There is a palpable feeling of euphoria that extends beyond Washington over the passage of what is known as the Obama Health Care bill in the House of Representatives. The U.S. Health Care Act passed with a narrow majority of 219-212 with not a single Republican vote in favor – despite Obama’s and the Democrats’ efforts to make the bill as attractive as possible to the conservative Republican base. There is something to be said about scoring a victory against the Tea Partiers and the frenzied right-wing demagogues that seemed to have captured the airwaves the last few months. But, sadly, it’s a hollow victory.

One reason for the general enthusiasm is the limited understanding of the Act. The facts are drowned in the sound bites about “universal coverage,” “lower costs,” and “no more denied coverage due to illness or pre-existing conditions” - claims that are grossly overstated. In fact, the greatest achievement of the recent debate was in confusing the public and deflecting attention away from the real problem: profit-driven medical care. The current bill does nothing to change that, and over time many of those now welcoming it will see its severe limitations.

Unfortunately, the big winner in this battle has been the health insurance corporations. Corporations don’t exist to provide products or care. Their primary purpose is to produce profit and most preferably increased profits. The only way to do that is to either deny care to the sick or increase the cost of coverage. The health insurance industry has chosen to do both – and no one has stood in its way.

Physicians for a National Health Plan (PNPH) likened the new plan to an “aspirin dispensed for the treatment of cancer.” As Dr. Marcia Angell from PNHP put it, it’s hard to find a solution if you lose sight of the cause of the problem and attempt only to cure the symptoms. The cause, the cancer, is the for-profit system which dispenses health care as a market commodity according to the ability to pay.

The symptoms are millions of uninsured, uneven coverage, sky-rocketing costs, lower life expectancy, and tremendous waste. More than 1,200 insurance corporations are involved in this industry, each with its own staff and operating costs – not to mention its own insatiable appetite for profit. On the other side, health care providers need to keep an army of office personnel just to deal with the insurers. These add nothing to the quality of care, but add plenty to the overall costs.

So how much of the problem will be cured by the Act? Not much.

Lost in the hype are facts such as:


23 million people will remain uninsured for the next nine years.

Mandated individual coverage will force people into buying policies from private insurers, but with no provisions for cost control. There are also no guarantees that policies will cover 100% of the cost of care, leaving families open to impoverishment in case of catastrophic or serious illness.

Companies with 50 or more employees are mandated to provide health insurance. Failure to do so carries penalties of $2,000 annually per employee. Considering the average annual cost of over $13,000 for family coverage, employers actually have an incentive to deny health benefits, pay the penalty and still be $11,000 richer. Their workers then will have to comply with the individual mandate or face a penalty. But beyond the penalty, they will be facing the prospect of lack of care when they need it.

Insurance companies won’t be allowed to deny coverage to children with an illness or pre-existing conditions (this will apply to adults in 2014). But there is nothing in the bill prohibiting them from raising premiums for these patients beyond their ability to pay. If these patients drop their coverage, they pay a penalty or get covered by state subsidies. Either way, the insurer stands to gain.

Insurance exchanges will be established in which the state will actually be the broker, directing clients to the private insurers. In Massachusetts, where these exchanges were instituted in 2006, it’s estimated that they add 4% to the overall cost of health care.

The bill includes a provision that "demands that women receiving federal subsidies for health insurance write a second check to their insurer for policies purchased through the government-administered exchanges for any portion of their policy that covers abortion." That would also apply for employer-based insurance. It’s a devastating blow to women’s reproductive rights.


The few progressive elements of the bill, such as extending the age parents can cover students under their insurance to age 26, or extending Medicaid to more people, which will benefit some people, do not constitute a fundamental transformation of the health care system, and are countered by other regressive aspects of the bill. These could easily have been passed as stand-alone laws.

The Act not only fails to address the underlying problems, but it expands the role of the insurance companies. For the first time, there is legislation that establishes for-profit health insurance as mandatory for the majority of the population.

Obama and the Democrats

From the beginning of the health care debate the Republican strategists prepared to go on the offensive and hit the ground running. The insurance lobby opposed reform, even when it was obvious it would actually enrich them. Republicans lined up behind them, denouncing “government-run insurance” as un-American, socialist, treacherous, etc. They organized grass-roots campaigns, tea parties and dominated town hall meetings. Their message, reactionary and at times plainly racist, was heard loud and clear.

By contrast, the Democrats - who controlled both the legislative and executive branches - allowed the Republicans to dictate the agenda. Obama took a hands-off approach and let the conservative Democrats and Republicans set the scope of the discussion. “Single-payer” advocates were kept away from discourse. Insurance industry representatives were given prominent seats at the table. Universal mandate was the corner stone of the plan that started to emerge from the deliberations. The most “radical” proposal was the possible inclusion of a “public option”, which kept getting weaker and weaker until it was totally dropped, despite Obama’s assurances to defend it. The proposal that emerged included universal mandate, no “public option”, and taxes imposed on those with workplace benefits - something that would hit unionized workers who have won better health care provision from their employers.

In the last few weeks Obama himself stepped forward, proposed a slightly modified but nevertheless industry-friendly bill and campaigned vigorously for it. He held rallies and town hall meetings, he made speeches and used the media. He was reportedly working the phones till the last minute, assuring conservatives that his bill would continue to deny poor women the right to safe abortions. He made it clear that no threat to the domination of private insurance industry was included in the plan.

Most of the “progressives” in the Democratic Party folded, one by one abandoning single-payer or even the meager public option. The last man standing was Dennis Kucinich, who flipped two days before the vote after Obama personally appealed to the voters in his district. Obama had no concessions to offer to the liberals but got their vote. From the Republicans he failed to secure a single vote, despite the concessions. So, the Democrats managed, once again, to single-handedly pass legislation tailored to the needs of big business, much like the stimulus package of 2009, the bailout of 2008 and the credit card industry reform of 2010.

Obama showed that he is capable of using his position and his popularity to campaign for change, but he chose not to until he had a totally ineffective bill to fight for.

Why Insurance Industry Opposed Bill?

The economic crisis accentuated the problems high insurance costs were causing not only for families, but for whole industries. Polls showed the vast majority of Americans were in favor of reform. A majority even favored a “single-payer” system. The demand for radical reform was getting stronger.

The Obama administration allowed the insurance industry a prominent voice in the debate. By the end of the process the proposals did not pose much of a threat to the industry. As long as they managed to avoid competition by government-run non-profit alternatives, they were in the clear.

But if the insurance industry had embraced any of Obama’s proposals and called off the bitter campaign of resistance, they would have allowed proponents of real change enough room to organize and strike back. The only way to avoid that was to keep the “other side,” i.e. progressive forces, on the defensive by denouncing even the most moderate change. The strategy worked wonderfully. The louder their voice, the more the leaders of the Democratic Party were trying to appease them. The Democrats did what they always do best: They silenced their left flank and kept moving the agenda to the right.

The media played their part too: Fox News set the pace and the rest of them followed. They gave the tea partiers and the lunatic right their full attention, while they virtually ignored calls for radical reform – much like they had ignored the anti-war movement for the last seven years. Every stunt the Republicans staged was blasted in the news and amplified, whether it was disruption of town-hall meetings or teary-eyed TV show hosts.

A Socialist Approach to Health Care

From the start, Socialist Alternative characterized this bill as inadequate compared to what is needed - a single payer system. How would working people be motivated to organize support for a bill that included taxes on their existing health insurance coverage?

The only proposal that could bring about meaningful reform was the demand for a “single-payer” system, or Medicare for All. Unions and community organizations could have mobilized their members, much like they did during the 2008 presidential campaign. With a proposal for real change, millions of workers and their families in thousands of communities around the country could have been inspired to build a grass-roots campaign for fundamental transformation of the health care system in the U.S. A movement could hold rallies and educational meetings, go door-to-door to raise the consciousness of their fellow workers and their neighbors and recruit more activists to the cause.

Some argue that this measure is a step in the right direction and that improvements can be made as this law comes into effect in stages over the next eight years. Certainly this is not the end of the matter. This law’s attempts to entrench a profit-run health care system will be undermined.
Experience and disappointment will mean that demands for profit to be totally taken out of health care and for public provision will increase.

A lesson to be learned from this is we can’t depend on the Democrats to affect change. At best they are ineffective, at worst they are the same as the Republicans.

But we should not allow the Republicans to benefit electorally in November. It’s not too late to form a coalition of unions and communities and stand independent candidates determined to fight among other issues for single-payer health insurance, an end to corporate subsidies and an end to the war. We need candidates that will defend the rights of working people against those of big business.

Robocommie
26th March 2010, 16:01
I'm going to be honest, the main reason I'm not going to be angry and up in arms about what a half-assed joke this health care bill is... is because I just can't keep it up. It's very emotionally draining to keep getting angry at the government and never, ever, fucking win. The Bush years were hard. It was just loss after loss after loss. And I invested so much of myself emotionally in the health care debate, that I'm just burnt out on it.

I guess what I'm saying is, after Obama has failed to show any serious movement towards dismantling Guantanamo Bay, towards dismantling Homeland Security, towards ending the War on Terror, towards repealing DADT, towards reforming lobbyists in Washington... I just need something I don't feel is yet another loss at the hands of the bourgeoisie.

Jacobinist
26th March 2010, 16:25
I always have to be the Devil's advocate, and Im not happy about it!

But for those that are still fooled by Obama's charisma, he is no socialist or even a leftist. He is a liberal, and a very moderate one at that too. Which is why I always want to kick Teabaggers' face in when I hear them say bullshit like:

'He's a socialist!"
'He's a Terrorist!"
"He's an Arab!"
"He's part of a secret Marxist plot to topple the government!"
"He doesn't love Amerikkka the way we do!"
"Founding Fathers.....blah blah blah"
"Citizen Patriot ......blah blah blah"

They really are reptilian scum bags.

Q
26th March 2010, 16:33
I'm going to be honest, the main reason I'm not going to be angry and up in arms about what a half-assed joke this health care bill is... is because I just can't keep it up. It's very emotionally draining to keep getting angry at the government and never, ever, fucking win. The Bush years were hard. It was just loss after loss after loss. And I invested so much of myself emotionally in the health care debate, that I'm just burnt out on it.

I guess what I'm saying is, after Obama has failed to show any serious movement towards dismantling Guantanamo Bay, towards dismantling Homeland Security, towards ending the War on Terror, towards repealing DADT, towards reforming lobbyists in Washington... I just need something I don't feel is yet another loss at the hands of the bourgeoisie.

I can identify with this and it is indeed a fundamental problem of the far left movement. Much of it doesn't advance much further than to fight or mobilize for this or that protest/strike/demonstration. This gives a deep atmosphere of urgency, which will bring members of the diverse organisation on the edge all of the time. You can do this for one particular campaign or event, but it is not a way to build a cadre in the long term, in contrast it burns them out, disillusionises them in the movement, or leave politics completely. I think this is a fundamental reason why the far left is so small and why in the UK for instance there are approximately half a million (!) people that have been a member of this or that organisation during their lives, yet the current membership figures of the far left combined don't exceed the 10 000.

Robocommie
26th March 2010, 16:43
I can identify with this and it is indeed a fundamental problem of the far left movement. Much of it doesn't advance much further than to fight or mobilize for this or that protest/strike/demonstration. This gives a deep atmosphere of urgency, which will bring members of the diverse organisation on the edge all of the time. You can do this for one particular campaign or event, but it is not a way to build a cadre in the long term, in contrast it burns them out, disillusionises them in the movement, or leave politics completely. I think this is a fundamental reason why the far left is so small and why in the UK for instance there are approximately half a million (!) people that have been a member of this or that organisation during their lives, yet the current membership figures of the far left combined don't exceed the 10 000.

Maybe this is also part of why people always subscribe to this tired notion, "Sure, you're a leftist now, but you'll get over that when you're older." The kind of passion and zeal that lends itself to activism isn't in infinite supply and some folks just might be burning out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say I'm thinking of giving up or anything like that. Far from it, in fact I've been taking a look at increasing my involvement. I just think there needs to be some way to recharge, for lack of a better word, "spiritually."

Q
26th March 2010, 16:50
Maybe this is also part of why people always subscribe to this tired notion, "Sure, you're a leftist now, but you'll get over that when you're older." The kind of passion and zeal that lends itself to activism isn't in infinite supply and some folks just might be burning out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say I'm thinking of giving up or anything like that. Far from it, in fact I've been taking a look at increasing my involvement. I just think there needs to be some way to recharge, for lack of a better word, "spiritually."

If you don't mind me suggesting, an alternative approach is to think about why the far left fails at what it tries to do - organise the working class. Only if you have that clear you can think about solutions on how to improve the movement, which can be a new form of "spiritual" energy in itself. This kind of meta-political thinking - thinking about the framework of our politics, the movement we are active in - is what we need to build a truly mass movement, as opposed to just dragging yourself forward in the old ways and digging yourself in the sectarian trenches (not saying you are doing this, but speaking in a more generalised sense), in my opinion. This is a reason why I welcome this debate (http://www.revleft.com/vb/new-type-organisation-t131790/index.html) for example.

Robocommie
26th March 2010, 18:10
If you don't mind me suggesting, an alternative approach is to think about why the far left fails at what it tries to do - organise the working class. Only if you have that clear you can think about solutions on how to improve the movement, which can be a new form of "spiritual" energy in itself. This kind of meta-political thinking - thinking about the framework of our politics, the movement we are active in - is what we need to build a truly mass movement, as opposed to just dragging yourself forward in the old ways and digging yourself in the sectarian trenches (not saying you are doing this, but speaking in a more generalised sense), in my opinion. This is a reason why I welcome this debate (http://www.revleft.com/vb/new-type-organisation-t131790/index.html) for example.

I'm anti-sectarian.

Obrero Rebelde
29th March 2010, 21:02
So there's truth to the idea that "the older you get, the more conservative you become"?

ZeroNowhere
29th March 2010, 21:19
So there's truth to the idea that "the older you get, the more conservative you become"?
No, though there may be some truth in the idea that, "The longer you spend in most leftist organizations, the more conservative you become."

Wolf Larson
29th March 2010, 21:26
I was just informed that, through the passed bill, medicare coverage is now dropping its age limit down to around 20 - 25. If this is true, then FUCK YEAH! lol I'll be getting my coverage quite soon haha!
You were lied to. They're cutting funding for medicare.

Communist
30th March 2010, 03:10
.
The Meaning of
Obama's Healthcare Reform
and Next Steps (http://www2.socialistorganizer.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=377&Itemid=1)

Statement by the Editorial Board
of The Organizer Newspaper

THE ORGANIZER P.O. Box 40009 San Francisco, CA 94140
Tel. 415-641-8616 Email: theorganizer(AT)earthlink.net ([email protected])

The healthcare reform bill adopted by the House of
Representatives on March 21 and signed into law by
President Obama on March 23 has been hailed widely as
an historic victory for working people. Some have gone
so far as to compare it to the adoption of the Social
Security and Medicare bills years ago. Even those who
criticize aspects of the bill argue that it marks a
step forward that warrants our support.

No one could be opposed to a healthcare reform bill,
however incremental, if it represented even a small
step in the right direction. But is this really the
case?

* Will 32 Million People Get Access to Healthcare?

The main claim put forward by the proponents of the
Obama healthcare bill is that 32 million people in the
United States will finally have access to healthcare.
This fact alone is historic, we are told. Putting aside
the fact that 15 million of the current 47 million
Americans without healthcare insurance will not be
covered under this bill, the expansion of healthcare
coverage to these 32 million people will not take
effect until 2014. This means that, based on current
patterns, an estimated 100,000 people will be left to
die between now and 2014 for lack of healthcare, while
millions more are driven into dire poverty or
desperation in their quest to fund their medical needs
-- all this at a time when unemployment has reached
Depression-era levels.

True, the bill's proponents say, but 32 million people
-- even with this built-in delay -- is huge. It would
be huge if these 32 million were actually to receive
healthcare. But this is not the case. As Rose Ann
DeMoro, executive director of National Nurses United
and member of the Executive Council of the AFL-CIO,
stated, this is an "insurance bill" -- not a
"healthcare reform bill."

Low-income people will get government subsidies to
purchase healthcare insurance from private companies,
while middle-income people will be pressured to buy
commercial health insurance policies, or else face a
stiff penalty on their taxes. But this does not mean
that these erstwhile 32 million uninsured people will
actually get access to healthcare. These are two
separate questions.

Families who cannot pay the high premiums, deductibles
and co-payments charged by the private insurance
companies -- estimated to be between 15% and 18% of
most family incomes -- will have no choice but to
default, thus returning to the ranks of the uninsured.

Millions of middle-income people will have to fork over
an estimated 9.5% of their income to pay for healthcare
coverage, but, according to the Physicians for a
National Health Program (PNHP), this insurance will
cover an average of only 70% of their medical expenses.
"This will leave them vulnerable to financial ruin if
they become seriously ill," notes the March 23 PNHP
statement. "Many will find such policies too expenses
to afford, or, if they do buy them, too expensive to
use because of the high co-pays and deductibles."

Firedoglake.com -- a website that has done a careful
study of the Obama healthcare bill -- points out the
following:

"The bill will impose a financial hardship on
middle-class Americans who will be forced to buy a
product that they can't afford to use. A family of four
making $66,370, for example, will be forced to pay
$5,243 per year for insurance. In addition they will
have to pay $5,882 in annual out-of-pocket medical
expenses."

The Obama healthcare plan is modeled closely on the
Massachusetts plan. It is worth looking at the
Massachusetts model to understand what we can expect to
get nationwide. A 2009 study by the state of
Massachusetts found that 21% of residents forgo medical
treatment because they can't afford it. They have
health insurance, but they can't afford to use it.

* Will the Obama Bill Contain Healthcare Costs?

This may have been true in Massachusetts, the Obama
healthcare proponents reply, but under the Obama bill,
healthcare costs will be contained. They argue that the
Obama bill will stop insurance companies from hiking
rates 30% to 40% per year.

This is another myth.

The Obama bill explicitly allows insurance companies to
unilaterally raise prices without ceilings or caps --
as well as to monopolize local markets to shut out
competitors.

Dr. Marcia Angell, editor emeritus of the prestigious
New England Journal of Medicine, told the Bill Moyers
Journal (PBS, March 5) that, "the commercial insurance
industry will be able to charge whatever they like."
Asked by Moyers about the cost-regulation measures
vaunted by the Obama plan proponents, Dr. Angell
replied, "If these companies are regulated in some way
that cuts into their profits, all they have to do is
just raise their premiums. And they'll do that."

But even these regulations will have little to no
effect. A main problem with the Obama bill is lack of
enforcement. Also, the private insurance companies
fought for, and secured, language in the Obama bill
that continues to exempt them from anti-trust laws and
leaves them free to raise rates without fear of
competition.

Healthcare reform advocates had campaigned strongly for
a "public option" that would enable people to purchase
health insurance directly from the government. They
argued that this would be a way to genuinely contain
healthcare costs, as it would provide real competition
to the insurance companies.

The insurance companies -- echoed by the Republicans
and many "Blue Dog" Democrats -- cried bloody murder.
This was an anti-American and anti-free market
proposal, they said. Tea Party activists took to the
streets to protest this "Hitler-inspired totalitarian"
provision. Clearly the insurance companies feared that
the public option, which would not be driven by the
profit motive and could therefore keep costs down,
would become so popular and would grow so much that
eventually they would be iced out of the healthcare
equation. And had the public option been included in
the plan, these companies could have been driven out of
business.

But as early as last summer, President Obama had made a
back-room deal with the for-profit hospital industry
that the public option would not be part of any final
bill voted by the Congress. This scandalous fact was
revealed by New York Times Washington reporter David
Kirkpatrick on the March 15 Ed Shultz MSNBC TV show,
and has not been denied by the White House. [See
accompanying article in Unity and Independence.]

So, while labor was pounding the pavement for the
public option last fall, Obama had already made a deal
that there would be no public option in the final
health reform legislation. And this is exactly what
happened: There was no public option. Obama betrayed
his promise to the labor movement, but kept his promise
to the private insurance companies that fund both the
Democratic and Republican parties.

* Will the Bill Stop Coverage Denials for Pre-Existing
Conditions?

What about the claim by proponents of the Obama bill
that it will stop the health insurance industry from
denying coverage to patients with pre-existing
conditions?

The Physicians for a National Health Program March 23
statement explains that "the much-vaunted insurance
regulation of ending denials on the basis of
pre-existing conditions is riddled with loopholes,
thanks to the central role that insurers played in
crafting the legislation."

One such loophole is this: The bill does not prohibit
the private insurance companies from dropping people in
individual plans when they get sick. If people with
pre-existing conditions manage to get health insurance,
they can always be dropped later.

Again, the main problem is lack of enforcement: The
bill does not empower a regulatory body to keep people
from being dropped when they're sick. There are already
many states that have laws on the books prohibiting
people from being dropped when they're sick, but
without an enforcement mechanism, there is little to
hold the insurance companies in check.

This brings up a number of other fundamental problems
with the Obama healthcare bill.

Subsidies Through Medicare Cuts and Excise Taxes

Under the bill, insurance companies will be handed
close to $500 billion in taxpayer money "to subsidize
the purchase of their shoddy products," as the PNHP
statement puts it. "Not only will this enhance their
financial and political power, and with it their
ability to block future reform," the PNHP text
continues, "but the bill will drain about $40 billion
from Medicare payments to safety-net hospitals,
threatening the care of the tens of millions who will
remain uninsured."

Another totally unacceptable way that the government
subsidies for the uninsured will be paid for is by
taxing many, if not most, of the employer-based
healthcare plans, that is, the so-called "cadillac"
union plans. This provision pits low-wage workers
against the unionized workforce, sowing tensions and
divisions in the working class.

International Association of Machinists and Aerospace
Workers (http://www.goiam.org/) (IAM) President Tom Buffenbarger explained his
union's opposition to this measure:

"The IAM opposes the excise tax, period. We believe it
is unfair to our current members and particularly
unfair to those members we hope to organize in the
future. If a temporary exemption is the best this
Congress can offer the American people after the
promises of the last election, they will have earned
the wrath of voters in the next election.

"By stringing this 'fix' out until 2018, our members
will be pressured to agree to benefit cuts year after
year in the vain hope they will be able avoid the
excise tax. Companies will seek to shift costs while
still cutting benefits to avoid eight years of
healthcare premiums accelerating at 15% to 20% percent
per year. This is a huge ping-pong ball that our
elected leaders are trying to shove down the throats of
hard-working Americans."

Sacrificing Women's Rights and Immigrants' Rights

If all this were not enough to make it clear that the
"Obama bill should not have passed as it will make
only make things worse," to quote Dr. Marcia Angell,
the bill sacrificed women's reproductive rights for
corporate profits. Jane Hamsher, writing in the
firedoglake.com website, puts it this way:

"This healthcare legislation is the biggest assault on
women's reproductive rights in 35 years. It is a
national shame that a Democratic president who pledged
the repeal of the Hyde Amendment would proudly issue an
executive order affirming it. How far we've come since
2007, when Barack Obama swore that his first act in
office would be to sign the Freedom of Choice Act."

National Organization for Women (http://www.now.org/) President Terry O'Neill
was equally blunt in a statement following the House
vote on March 21:

"As a longtime proponent of healthcare reform, it pains
me to have to stand against what many see as a major
achievement. But feminist, progressive principles are
in direct conflict with many of the compromises built
into and tacked onto the legislation.

"The bill contains a sweeping anti-abortion provision.
Contrary to the talking points circulated by
congressional leaders, the bill passed today ultimately
achieves the same outcome as the infamous Stupak-Pitts
Amendment, namely the likely elimination of all private
as well as public insurance coverage for abortion.

"President Obama made an eleventh-hour agreement to
issue an executive order lending the weight of his
office to the anti-abortion measures included in the
bill. This move was designed to appease a handful of
anti-choice Democrats who have held up health care
reform in an effort to restrict women's access to
abortion."

And if this were not enough, as NOW President Terry
O'Neill writes, "The bill imposes harsh restrictions on
the ability of immigrants to access healthcare,
imposing a five-year waiting period on permanent, legal
residents before they are eligible for assistance such
as Medicaid, and prohibiting undocumented workers even
to use their own money to purchase health insurance
through an exchange. These provisions are
counterproductive in terms of controlling health care
costs; they are there because of ugly anti-immigrant
sentiment."

In a nutshell, the Obama healthcare reform is NOT good
for working people. In fact it marks a big step in the
wrong direction. And the main reason for this is that
it's a plan based on the very private insurance
companies that have created the healthcare fiasco we
face today in our country.

* Do the Health Insurance Companies Hate This Bill?

No. It's not a bill that the insurance companies hate,
as so many have claimed. In fact, the bill is almost
identical to the plan written by AHIP, the insurance
company trade association, in 2009.

Nationally syndicated columnist E.J. Dionne Jr., in a
column published in the March 20 issue of the San
Francisco Chronicle, wrote that, "the ultimate paradox
of this Great Health Care Showdown" is that, "Democrats
have rallied behind a bill built on a series of
principles that Republicans espoused for years." He
continues:

"They have said that they do not want to destroy
the private insurance market. This bill not only
preserves that market but strengthens it by bringing in
32 million new customers. The plan before Congress does
not call for a government 'takeover' of health care. It
provides subsidies so more people can buy private
insurance."

A Few Concluding Comments

Yes, there are some good provisions in this legislation
such as funding for community health centers.
But these provisions could have -- and should have --
been stand-alone measures had there been the political
will to fight for genuine change.

These positive provisions, however, pale in comparison
with the poison pills contained throughout the
legislation -- poison pills that are built into a plan
that not only fails to curb the power of the private
insurance companies, but in fact further entrenches
their power and monopoly over the delivery of
healthcare. This incontrovertible fact belies the claim
by some proponents that the bill can serve as a pathway
toward a single-payer healthcare system.

How Have the Democrats Managed to Carry Out this Hoax?

How is it that the Democrats were able to push through
this sham "healthcare reform"?

One main reason is the support for the Obama bill --
particularly during the six weeks leading up to its
adoption on March 21 -- by the leadership of the
AFL-CIO (http://www.aflcio.org/siteguides/contactus.cfm) trade union federation. In late January, the
bill appeared doomed to die on the vine. Polls showed
that less than 40% of the public supported the bill --
"a significant number of them because the bill did not
go far enough," as Paul Krugman points out in the
International Herald Tribune on March 27-28.

That's when Obama and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi
rallied the troops. The AFL-CIO leadership responded to
the call, organizing public rallies and delivering
millions of letters to wavering Congresspeople to get
them on board.

Democrat after Democrat in fact publicly thanked
AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka and the AFL-CIO
leadership for their "invaluable support" for the
healthcare legislation, stating that without the
AFL-CIO's last-ditch effort, the bill would not have
been approved. Mandate from the AFL-CIO Convention Last
September, at its national convention, the AFL-CIO
voted to support single-payer healthcare as its
long-term objective. This vote -- the result of a
nine-month campaign within labor organized by the Labor
Campaign for Single Payer Healthcare -- marked a big
step forward for the labor federation.

At the same time, the AFL-CIO adopted another
resolution calling on President Obama and the Democrats
to include a public option in the final legislation.
Including the public option, the AFL-CIO leadership
stated, would represent a pathway toward a single-payer
system.

This was the mandate from the union membership.

Throughout the fall, the AFL-CIO campaigned for a
public option and against the excise tax on the union
plans proposed by many of the Blue Dog Democrats. The
AFL-CIO and its healthcare allies obtained pledges from
70 Members of Congress, including Ohio Congressman
Dennis Kucinich, that they would not vote for any
healthcare reform bill that did not at least contain a
public option.

In late January, AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka
issued a statement in which he noted that labor and
all working people cannot rely on the Democrats and
Republicans to obtain our pressing demands. Trumka
stated:

"What happened Tuesday in Massachusetts was a wake-up
call to all of us. It was a working class revolt -- a
signal that in this economic crisis, the American
people demand jobs, healthcare and an economy that
works for them now -- not political business as usual.
...

"For the union movement and activists, the message was
also clear: It's not time to leave it to any political
party to take care of us once we put them in office.
It's time to organize and mobilize as never before to
make every elected or aspiring leader PROVE he or she
will create the jobs we need in an economy we need with
the healthcare we need."

But is the Obama healthcare bill the "healthcare we
need"?

Not at all. The Obama bill did not include
single-payer, which the AFL-CIO now called for, and nor
did it include the public option. It continued to tax
the union plans (albeit at a slightly lower rate than
initially proposed) and to cut Medicare payments for
the elderly. It contained key provisions that the
AFL-CIO had in fact mobilized against.

Was pulling out all the stops in February and March --
as the AFL-CIO leadership did to ensure passage of the
Obama bill -- the way to hold the elected officials of
the Democratic Party accountable to supporting labor's
agenda? Was this a way to press the Democrats and
Republicans to prove that they care about labor?

No, of course not. Even the Wall Street Journal noted
that the "unions folded to the government and the
employers on the healthcare legislation." (Feb. 12)

What Way Forward?

The AFL-CIO leadership cannot fight to defend its
members' interests or to champion the healthcare
interests of the working-class majority so long as it
remains tied at the hip to the Democratic Party.
Subordinating labor's agenda and demands to the
exigencies of the Democrats meant that labor had to
forgo its own healthcare agenda in the interests of the
private insurance companies and the politicians that do
their bidding. On every front today -- whether it's the
Obama administration's trillion-dollar bailout of Wall
Street and the banks at taxpayers' expense, or Obama's
failure to deliver on the Employee Free Choice Act, or
Obama's failure to deliver on any real jobs-creation
program, or Obama's decision to escalate the war in
Afghanistan, or, now, Obama's failure to deliver on the
public option and real healthcare reform -- the Obama
presidency has been an "unmitigated disaster for
American labor," to quote Washington Post senior
staffwriter Harold Meyerson.

For teachers and public-education activists it's not
only Obama's failures that are the problem. In
mid-February, teachers in Rhode Island were summarily
fired, and the union was broken, with the open support
of Obama and Education Secretary Arne Duncan -- all in
the name of the "education reforms needed to increase
productivity."

This "unmitigated disaster" will only get worse unless
the labor movement breaks with the Democrats and
mobilizes around its own independent agenda in huge
numbers in the streets and in the electoral arena
through its own independent political candidates and
party: a Labor Party. The ruling class has two parties
-- the Democrats and the Republicans. Working people
need our own party. Isn't it about time for the labor
movement to break with the Democratic Party and to
begin building its own political party? Isn't it time
to open the widest discussion in the labor movement
about the need to take up the struggle for the Labor
Party?


********************

.

Communist
30th March 2010, 07:02
.
Medical Care “Reform” –
Attacking the Population to Benefit
the Medical Care Industry (http://www.the-spark.net/np866401.html)

After weeks of pretending to fight the Republicans, the Democrats finally passed and Obama signed the so-called medical insurance “reform.” Obama called it a “historic reform” – on the scale of Social Security, passed in the 1930s and Medicare passed in the 1960s.

It’s historic alright – a historic rip-off of the population it claims to serve!
Today’s uninsured will be forced to buy insurance they can’t afford, insurance that has been shown to be practically useless, from private insurance companies, whose main aim is to make profit.

Nothing in the law prevents drug companies and hospitals from raising their prices – Obama had already last summer cut a deal with them, promising no attempt to control prices for the next ten years! And those prices will be passed through in higher insurance premiums – with a little extra tacked on for the insurance companies!

Very little in the law interferes with the way the private medical insurance industry functions. There are no controls on prices. As for “administrative expenses” – which today gobble up nearly half a trillion dollars due to the waste built into a private, for-profit system – they will go up as new layers of bureaucracy build up in all these private insurers. There isn’t even a “government option,” which might have offered a tiny bit of competition, forcing the private companies to keep prices a little lower.

But Obama says an insurance company can’t charge you more if you develop medical problems. No, but it can charge you more every year, as you get older. Given that most illnesses occur as you age, insurance companies will simply charge you more for your older age – including even when you don’t get sicker!

Obama says they can’t deny you coverage for a pre-existing condition – no, but for the next four years you can get that coverage only from a high-risk, very high-premium pool – like those that already exist in most states! After that no one knows, because the “regulations” haven’t been written yet!

Penalizing People for Not Buying Insurance

What happens if you don’t buy the insurance? You will have to pay a penalty, a penalty which will get bigger year after year. In other words, you won’t have insurance, but you will pay!

What about the so-called subsidy you’re supposed to get if you can’t afford insurance? It will cover only the part of the insurance that exceeds 9.5% of your income – if your income is $50,000, you will pay nearly $5,000 in insurance premiums, plus two or three thousand dollars in “deductible” charges each year before the insurance kicks in, plus a 10 or 20% co-pay on services, etc. etc. etc.

In reality the subsidy will be enough only to let you buy so-called “catastrophic” coverage, which covers no regular medical expenses – no drugs, no doctor’s visits, no exams, no clinical tests, etc. – only hospitalization.

Yes, if your income is low enough you can qualify for Medicaid – which doesn’t mean you can see a doctor. Two years ago already, only 1/3 of family doctors and 1/3 of gynecologists would take Medicaid patients – and that was before states instituted all the cuts in Medicaid payments over these past two years. Some states have even cut out CHIP – the government program insuring children of the working poor.

Add insult to injury – the very same “reform” bill supposedly extending Medicaid has established a “commission” to look for ways to cut Medicaid!

“Reform”? No this is an outright attack on the very people it pretends to serve.

And Who Else Will Pay?

Under the guise of paying for this “reform,” the government will tax insurance policies provided by employers. A 40% tax will be tacked onto so-called “Cadillac” plans, a tax that will be passed on to those who have insurance in the form of higher co-payments, higher premiums and reduced services. Half of all health benefits provided under union contract fall into this category. And two thirds of big employers, when surveyed, have already said they intend to cut benefits as the result of this reform.

Retired people on Medicare will pay. The Congressional Budget Office just estimated that the government will save 427 billion dollars on Medicare as the result of this “reform.”

Workers and retired people are not paying to insure the uninsured. They are paying so the government can cut down on its budget deficit – a deficit produced by the bank bail-outs.

A Profit-making Scam? Dressed up as a Social “Reform”

Obama says his “reform” is comparable to the big social reforms of the last century: Social Security and Medicare.

Obama lies! Both of these programs were socially organized and funded, with workers and their employers paying into a central fund, held and disbursed by the federal government. The organization of Social Security and Medicare effectively excluded private profit-makers from putting their hands deeply into the pie – it’s what has made them so much more efficient and less costly than anything else.

The new medical care “reform” is not a socially organized program. It doesn’t touch the profits of these big companies that grow fat off the misery of a population badly served by medical care.

It is simply one more rip-off of the population to pump up the profits of big financial interests and their friends.


.

R_P_A_S
31st March 2010, 17:06
Thanks for the great comments and the links. I'm still trying to understand this. Bottom line this is not good for working people... and ultimately it benefits corporations.

Obrero Rebelde
31st March 2010, 20:30
Now that Obama has decided to DRILL, BABY, DRILL!, maybe we won't have to be in the Middle East anymore? :rolleyes: