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View Full Version : The Pope cannot be "fired" nor face prosecution.



Hexen
20th March 2010, 06:12
http://www.slate.com/id/2247262/?gt1=38001 (http://redirectingat.com/?id=629X1198&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Fid%2F2247262%2F%3 Fgt1%3D38001)


Slate posted:
The Vatican is fending off accusations (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/16/AR2010031602345.html) that Pope Benedict XVI helped cover up sexual child abuse in the Catholic Church when he was archbishop of Munich and Freising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Archdiocese_of_Munich_and_Freising) in the 1970s and '80s. If more evidence turns up against Pope Benedict, can the church fire him?

No. The Code of Canon Law (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM) has no provision that allows a pope's removal from office— for any reason, even poor health or psychological trauma. That's because, according to church law, there is no higher authority than the pope: He "possesses supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power in the Church, which he is always able to exercise freely." A pope may resign, but his resignation must be "made freely," and he doesn't have to tender his resignation to any particular authority. (The last pope to resign was Gregory XII, who did so in 1415 to end the battle for the papacy known as the Western schism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Schism).)


As for other Catholic authorities: Bishops can be removed by the Congregation of Bishops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_Bishops), although there's no formal process. And pastors can be removed by bishops for just about any reason (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P6Z.HTM), including "infirmity of mind or body," "loss of a good reputation," or "grave neglect" of parochial duties.



Can the pope face prosecution under secular law?

No. The pope is immune from prosecution under the local laws of the Vatican.

It's also a principle of customary international law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customary_international_law) that heads of state enjoy immunity from prosecution. That includes the pope, who is both the head of the church and the head of Vatican City.



When three plaintiffs sued the pope in Texas court in 2005 for allegedly helping cover up their molestation by a priest in Houston, the U.S. Justice Department urged the court to dismiss (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169909,00.html) the suit on grounds that the pope enjoys immunity as head of state of the Holy See and that such a lawsuit would be "incompatible with the United States' foreign policy interests."


It's possible that once a head of state leaves office, he can become liable for crimes committed before he took office, since sovereign immunity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunity_from_prosecution_%28international_law%29) applies to leaders only while they're head of state or to acts performed as a head of state.





However, the pope almost never retires, so he's unlikely ever to face prosecution.

thoughts?

The Vegan Marxist
20th March 2010, 06:37
http://www.slate.com/id/2247262/?gt1=38001 (http://redirectingat.com/?id=629X1198&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Fid%2F2247262%2F%3 Fgt1%3D38001)



thoughts?

Fuck it. It's not a matter to the people's revolution nor the gaining of workers solidarity. This will only play as a setback to our spreading word.

Tatarin
20th March 2010, 06:49
Well, he can always loose faith....

Hexen
20th March 2010, 06:51
Well I could have posted this in the Religion forum but I thought it was a good laughing stock in a wondering/self explanatory way which says alot about bourgeois society...

It's basically another LOL Religion...

Axle
20th March 2010, 06:52
Whatever. When the world has its revolution, the pope, like money, classes and individual nations, is just going to become more and more irrelevant until the position disappears completely.

Communist
20th March 2010, 06:55
This is funny to you? It's talking about child abuse. Not funny.

Hexen
20th March 2010, 07:20
This is funny to you? It's talking about child abuse. Not funny.

I take that statement back ("LOL Religion") and it's more like "Bullshit Religion" which is a more accurate term I was trying to say and I do know that child or any form of abuse is no laughing matter.

vyborg
20th March 2010, 15:13
The Pope cannot fail...he takes orders directly from God....how can you dare to discuss his holiness...

chegitz guevara
20th March 2010, 17:52
Popes have been removed before by the Council of Cardinals.

Little Bobby Hutton
20th March 2010, 18:37
popes are wankers

The Red Next Door
20th March 2010, 20:31
The only way the pope can be fired is if he dies, i mean by old age. which should be soon with all the mess he have to deal with, it enough to cause a heart attack, Bye bye papa.

Raúl Duke
20th March 2010, 23:41
It's also a principle of customary international law (http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customary_international_law) that heads of state enjoy immunity from prosecution. That includes the pope, who is both the head of the church and the head of Vatican City.



When three plaintiffs sued the pope in Texas court in 2005 for allegedly helping cover up their molestation by a priest in Houston, the U.S. Justice Department urged the court to dismiss (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169909,00.html) the suit on grounds that the pope enjoys immunity as head of state of the Holy See and that such a lawsuit would be "incompatible with the United States' foreign policy interests."

It's not exactly customary...

I think the European Court on Human Rights and/or the International Criminal Court tried to indicted Bashir (or the person running Sudan) for the Dafur massacre while he was head of state.

The issue is where the case is originating from. For some reason, the U.S. thinks it is "important foreign policy" to make sure the Pope is not found guilty of accomplice of other priest's sexual molestation charges when in reality the Vatican as a state is pretty much irrelevant (and in one point non-existent; far-left factions in Italy today seek to end the Lateran treaty that allows its existence).

Psy
21st March 2010, 18:59
It's not exactly customary...

I think the European Court on Human Rights and/or the International Criminal Court tried to indicted Bashir (or the person running Sudan) for the Dafur massacre while he was head of state.

The issue is where the case is originating from. For some reason, the U.S. thinks it is "important foreign policy" to make sure the Pope is not found guilty of accomplice of other priest's sexual molestation charges when in reality the Vatican as a state is pretty much irrelevant (and in one point non-existent; far-left factions in Italy today seek to end the Lateran treaty that allows its existence).

The US state does want to disillusion Catholics as religion does play a role in retarding class conscious, and for Catholics to question the authority of the Catholics church would make them question the authority of the state since the Catholic church is a higher authority then the bourgeoisie state in the eyes Catholics thus it collapsing would result in revolutions that won't simply stop with overthrowing the Catholic church.

manic expression
21st March 2010, 19:12
At least back in the day, popes could definitely face prosecution, even if they were dead...Pope Formosus was dug up, put on trial as a corpse and then thrown into the Tiber River after he was found guilty. But yeah, Benedict is unlikely to face any sort of judgment for what he did. At least, not from the Catholic Church. A real shame.