Difference and Inequality

[¿Que?]

This is almost word for word from my blog. I was hoping someone would respond there, but since no, I have decided to start a thread.

I have been told before this is nonsense. It certainly does not make sense intuitively. I'm not sure why this argument occurred to me, but I think I arrived at it from reading something feminist. It goes like this: Difference will always result in inequality.

Can someone give me an example of difference not resulting in inequality. Of course the argument could be reversed. Inequality is actually what causes difference. This deserves examination too. (although it is foolish to say that, for example, genetic differences are caused by inequalities. Or Maybe not?)

Noone would deny that difference plays a very important role in the processes of inequality. What exactly is this role?

I don't think I have to overtly state why I am so hung up on this...

[Crusade]

I'd like for you to elaborate a little more. I don't want to misinterpret the point of your post and write a wall of text about it for nothing.

[Lord Testicles]

Difference will always result in inequality.


Differences in what? "race", gender, intelligence?

I think it will be difficult to answear this question because it is so general. Some differences could cause inequality, some differences might not. For example, I find it difficult to see foot size or blood pressure be a major contributor to inequality.

[¿Que?]

Well, I just spent about 5 minutes searching the web trying to find something that might resemble this argument, but I can't seem to find anything. Like I said, I don't know why I am preoccupied with this question, but I think it can be linked to some feminist theory I read somewhere.

I'll try to elaborate more, but it really boils down to this. We live in a world with inequality. Most of the time, people try to think how to get rid of or minimize inequality. However, wherever human relations are concerned, we always see a similar pattern. Where there is inequality, there is difference. The obvious ones are race and gender. Race and gender inequalities seem to live alongside race and gender differences (of course race and gender categories are socially constructed, however, even where there is no clear objective difference as in race categories, there are perceived differences. On the issue of gender, I should probably have said sex. Here, there are clear objective differences arising from physiology).

Thus, there is perceived difference between whites and blacks, even when some "blacks" may have lighter skin than some "whites". Plus, not to mention that these categories are both externally applied to the individual and based on other things besides skin color.

But let me get back on point. Let's consider class inequalities or economic inequalities. This appears to be a no brainer. Class inequalities result from differences in access to economic resources. This is, strictly speaking, not a Marxian definition of class. Yet, a Marxian definition of class does not necessarily negate my point. Classes form out of differences in relations to the means of production.

So here's the dilemma, and I am a bit reluctant to have to spell this out mainly because I'm afraid of getting restricted. But oh well. If difference is so closely tied to inequality then in a communist society we are forced to admit either A) difference will continue to exist and therefore so will some inequality (although reduced as compared to capitalism) or B) Difference, along with inequality will both fade away, thus leaving a society of (virtually?) identical people.

The whole argument rests on the assumption that if there is difference, then there will be inequality. Prove that premise wrong and I will leave this whole crazy thing behind.

[¿Que?]

Differences in what? "race", gender, intelligence?

I think it will be difficult to answear this question because it is so general. Some differences could cause inequality, some differences might not. For example, I find it difficult to see foot size or blood pressure be a major contributor to inequality.
There you go. I was stuck in a rut, and couldn't get out of it. I built a whole system based on a false assumption because I could not stop and think of a simple difference that would have no effect on inequality. I think I just wanted someone to tell me because I was being intellectually lazy or something. Sorry.

[¿Que?]

Then again, foot size could lead to better soccer skills, creating unequal soccer performance. And high blood pressure may prevent people from playing sports.

The generality of the questions arises out of a lack of understanding of what communists mean when they say communism is an equal society.

Obviously it means equal in terms of class. But not just class. Because race and gender inequalities must disappear as well.

So I guess a follow up question would be. If communism is a society based on equality. What is meant by equality?

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Understand the difference between the two following premises:

Difference always leads to inequality
and
Difference can lead to inequality

The first assumes that the only cause of inequality is difference, or that it is the overriding cause of inequality (since one can probably never argue a direct, singular causal link). This could be applied from a class perspective - economic differences between classes generally do lead to inequality and its associated ills - poverty, disease, lack of development etc.

But then let us take your rather less topical example of foot size. One could say that having a larger foot might provide some benefit let us say, for becoming a footballer (in all honesty I doubt it makes a difference, but for the sake of argument, let us say a larger foot size is better for being a footballer). But then, if one has a larger foot, that is not to say that this will automatically lead to a contract with Real Madrid or Man United. There are many other factors to be considered, both institutional (football facilities, education) and others (personal amibition, luck, making contacts, being spotted by scouts). In this instance, there is no real direct link between foot size and becoming a footballer, since it is entirely plausible that there is little correlation between foot size and becoming a footballer, given the number of other factors that must be taken into account, into deciding whether one is able to become a footballer or not.

[Lord Testicles]

...race and gender inequalities must disappear as well.

I wouldn't say that any prejudice inherent, I would say that it is learnt behaviour. People have to be taught to be racist or sexist however unawear they are of that process. I'd say that once you remove the enviromental causes for these, the symptoms of those causes (racism, sexism) will dissappear.



What is meant by equality?

I'd say what is meant by equality is the dictionary definition,

Equal, adj.
Unvarying, fair.

Communism strives for an egalitarian society, it doesn't necassarly mean that all these problems will dissappear overnight, but I'd argue that it creates conditions were an egalitarian society is far more likely than say under capitalism.


Then again, foot size could lead to better soccer skills, creating unequal soccer performance. And high blood pressure may prevent people from playing sports.

Yes, but someone who can play soccer better than others is hardly going to have a profound social consequence and a person with high blood pressure will just have to manage their high blood pressure in a sensible way or risk complications later in life.

A bit of trivia. There is a Kurt Vonnegut book were society has tried to achieve a level playing field by handicapping people, so strong people have to carry around weights, beautiful people have to wear masks and particulary intelligent people have to wear a device that gives them headaches so they can't think straight. It's an interesting concept but a bad idea.

[¿Que?]

OK. I'm satisfied with these answers. Thanks to all.:thumbup1:

[¿Que?]

Of course, I think I just might have invented a new strawman by which Glen Beck can attack communism with. LOOK MA! I'M HELPING!