Less than Half Of Americans Consider Themselves Middle Class

[Crusade]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/15/less-than-half-of-america_n_498943.html

From the article:

"Fourteen percent of the 1,005 survey respondents say they consider themselves "upper-middle class," 39 percent working class and 45 percent middle class."

[chegitz guevara]

That is very interesting. Thank you for that. :thumbup1:

[Crusade]

I think these should also be considered:

"Even among people with incomes under $25,000 a year, 41 percent describe themselves as middle class. So do 38 percent of those with household incomes over $100,000."

"While incomes for married-couple and single-parent families with two children have increased significantly, much of this rise occurred in the 1990s. In part, these increases occurred because parents are working more hours in order to maintain higher income levels," the report said.

"Unfortunately, while incomes have risen, the prices for three large components of middle class expenses have increased faster than income: the cost of college, the cost of health care and the cost of a house. Thus, we conclude that it is harder to attain a middle class lifestyle now than it was in the recent past."

[Die Neue Zeit]

39 percent working class

That is a major step forward in consciousness. :)

[9]

Wikipedia says the US has a resident population of about 309,000,000 people. This survey used a sample size of 1,005 people. It's worth keeping that in mind.

[which doctor]

I didn't read the article, but does this suggest the percentage of people who consider themselves middle-class is declining?

If so this is a step in the right direction. To have a working-class movement, the working-class need to know that they're actually part of the working-class and not some culturally constructed 'middle-class.'

[Jimmie Higgins]

Interesting find comrade, thanks for posting this.

Yeah, it's been really interesting to see this play out - I've noticed this on an anecdotal level.

It would be interesting to know how class self-identification plays out in racial politics. It seems like most working class black people say "working class" whereas white people in similar economic levels tend to more often say "middle class". Its common for black people in Oakland to say that class is more of a factor than race... not in a liberal "post-racial" way though... most people of all races in working class areas are well aware of racism... the rich people in the hills, well that's a different story.

I wonder if this is due to a sharper class divide between working class black people and upper class and bourgeois black people: there is a very small black bourgeoise and they tend to try and distinguish themselves from working class people where as the white eliets always try to hide their class and show that they are "regular folk" and wear blue-genes and listen to rock music and so on.

My impression is that among latinos in Oakland, the class distinction is blue-collar/white collar which is also my impression about how a lot of white people see it too.

[the last donut of the night]

My impression is that among latinos in Oakland, the class distinction is blue-collar/white collar which is also my impression about how a lot of white people see it too.

I usually find that Latinos have a higher class-consciousness than other groups around here. Is it the same way there?

[KurtFF8]

Wikipedia says the US has a resident population of about 309,000,000 people. This survey used a sample size of 1,005 people. It's worth keeping that in mind.

Well if the sample is truly random, there's a certain cut off point where it actually statically doesn't matter how many more people you ask (at least that's what they teach you in Political Science research method courses).

So most "experts" agree that sample sizes like that do really reflect populations. The state even uses such studies for official policy (and it isn't in the state's interest to have bad information)

[¿Que?]

It would be interesting to know how class self-identification plays out in racial politics. It seems like most working class black people say "working class" whereas white people in similar economic levels tend to more often say "middle class".
I can actually confirm this. I've read a few articles on this subject and they seem to suggest that class self-identification does play out racially. Although in one particular study that I recall, I think it was that black folk tended to self-identify as lower class whereas whites tended to self-identify as working class (somehow controlling for socio-economic status).

[9]

Well if the sample is truly random, there's a certain cut off point where it actually statically doesn't matter how many more people you ask (at least that's what they teach you in Political Science research method courses).

So most "experts" agree that sample sizes like that do really reflect populations. The state even uses such studies for official policy (and it isn't in the state's interest to have bad information)

Well, that there is "a certain cut off point" is fine, but what is the cut off point? I'd imagine it depends on the size of the population the poll is supposed to represent. So if, say, five or ten people were polled, and it was presented as being representative of the entire US population, it obviously would be bullshit.

[cb9's_unity]

There's a propaganda campaign that constantly tells people that their middle class (and that the only classes are rich, middle, and lower). With this constant flooding of misinformation its remarkable that most Americans recognize the working class as a true segment of society.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I usually find that Latinos have a higher class-consciousness than other groups around here. Is it the same way there?I think that's probably true - especially recent immigrants who may be coming from places where there are democratic-socialist and radical tradditions as well as intense class struggle.

But, I feel a little biased (and privileged) because I live in a neighborhood that is probably 40% or more latino; many new immigrants from Mexico and El Salvador and it was sort of the center of immigrant rights actions in Oakland. I've met former Sandinistas and people who were labor organizers in Mexico. So a lot of the people I have met here have been through activist work and, yes, class consiousness and even socialist consiousness is higher than probalably the general population.

But there are a lot of divides too - new (mostly rural and many indigenous) immigrants vs. more established 2nd generation immigrants; racial divsions; and so on.

Despite these divisions as well as broader racial divisions in Oakland, I've seen some amazing things that show the potential for solidarity and fight back. When the first big immigrant rights march came through the neighborhood (I'm embarassed to say) I was really choked up while on the march to see people of all ethnic groups getting out of their cars and cheering the march: I saw these young black guys jump on top of their car and punp their fists in solidarity and an younf latino ran up and jumped on their car too and hugged them and cheered and said: "this is what it's all about, mexican and black toghether!"

Then when Obama won the election it was a very similar feeling. As much as I knew what Obama was really all about and that he wasn't on our side, it was moving to see black, white, asian, and latino people (the main groups in my neighborhood) literally dancing in the street in the middle of the night, drinking, embracing strangers and so on. It's amazing what happens when people brush off all the cynacism, divsions, and suspicion of eachother that useually rule the day and embrace posibilities and the potential for a different life and differnet world.

Sorry for the digression.

[The Ghost of Revolutions]

That is a major step forward in consciousness. :)
To bad most people will still support the captialist system. Most want to be rich really badly. Also we can debate wether or not they are truly working class.

[Crusade]

I can actually confirm this. I've read a few articles on this subject and they seem to suggest that class self-identification does play out racially. Although in one particular study that I recall, I think it was that black folk tended to self-identify as lower class whereas whites tended to self-identify as working class (somehow controlling for socio-economic status).

I've also noticed that many mainstream media outlets portray problems for the working class as "white" problems. They'll say stuff like black people go through this, bla bla racism bla bla etc, but on the other side white working class people go through bla bla etc. I'm not sure if I've ever seen people from the inner city be described as working class before on telivision. :confused:

[Outinleftfield]

Its still shows theres quite a few working-class Americans who don't have class consciousness.

So many people don't realize, if you rent your labor to an employer you are working class, even if you are a high-paid profession you are still a wage slave. You might be more well off, but you are still trapped in that system of exploitation.

[¿Que?]

I've also noticed that many mainstream media outlets portray problems for the working class as "white" problems. They'll say stuff like black people go through this, bla bla racism bla bla etc, but on the other side white working class people go through bla bla etc. I'm not sure if I've ever seen people from the inner city be described as working class before on telivision. :confused:
And then there are people who think class analysis is not even relevant in a "post" type of society (post-capitalist, post-racist, post-communist etc). They put on the "post" prefix to any word and proudly assert that no one ever disagrees anymore!

[Jimmie Higgins]

Whenever I see "post" as a prefix, I think "anti". Postmodernism promotes anti-scientific ideas, post-feminism promotes sexist ideas and so on.

Oops, I guess "Post-Fordist" doesn't work in that way, but generally it works for the other "posts".

Edit: Post-Office = Anti-Office:laugh:

[chegitz guevara]

Well, that there is "a certain cut off point" is fine, but what is the cut off point? I'd imagine it depends on the size of the population the poll is supposed to represent. So if, say, five or ten people were polled, and it was presented as being representative of the entire US population, it obviously would be bullshit.

Five to ten people could be representative of the entire American population, but the margin of error would be much higher, than a random sampling of 1,000. Around a thousand people, you start to get pretty accurate results. More than that reduces the margin of error, but not a lot.

[Delenda Carthago]

something that is very strange to me as Greek,is that I havent met not one US citizen in my life(and I ve known a few)that feels proud to be a worker,or poor.In USA I think its embarassing to be poor.I mean,wtf is up with that?You can also see it in rap music:rappers cursing each other about not having money,while they insulting each other for not beeing "ghetto enouff"...Shit is bizzare,aint it?

[Delenda Carthago]

BTW I m talkin about rap music,cause its the music that comes out from the working class people.

[RadioRaheem84]

something that is very strange to me as Greek,is that I havent met not one US citizen in my life(and I ve known a few)that feels proud to be a worker,or poor.In USA I think its embarassing to be poor.I mean,wtf is up with that?You can also see it in rap music:rappers cursing each other about not having money,while they insulting each other for not beeing "ghetto enouff"...Shit is bizzare,aint it?


Being poor in America is seen as being lazy, incompetant, or stupid. Many, many Americans will not admit to you that they're working class, poor, or in need of a serious livable wage. Many people want to identify themselves with the middle class even though the reality is that most Americans fall into the working class category if you eliminate their reliance on debt finance to break into the middle class. Everyone gets by in this country, especially the youth, by claiming or pretending to be rich.

People in the States are obsessed with the libertarian self made man story not seeing the fallacy that if this trait was so common in people, that everyone would do it, hence making it less appealing.

A young man making 25-30k a year with a decent credit line, rooming in a luxury apartment with another dude making the same amount, buying up nice clothes, making montly payments on a BMW and going to the disco every week will think of himself as almost on the same level as someone making three times his salary. He will never admit to you that he is relatively poor because his consumption (i.e. debt) makes him appear richer. Of course this is going to change in the coming years but this was the mentality of many many Americans.

[chegitz guevara]

We're weird about money.

[chimx]

ABC News Polls are very scientific.

[syndicat]

Actually there are other polls that show an even higher level of working class identity. In "The Working Class Majority" Michael Zweig cites a pole done in the '90s in which 55 percent said they were working class...51 percent of whites and 71 percent of blacks.

A friend of mine who is an SEIU organizer says that his health care local takes surveys of their members and one of the things they ask is whether they think they are middle class or working class. He says the results vary from time to time. If people are doing real well and do not feel under siege, they are more likely to say middle class. But if life is more precarious, and their benefits are being cut and things like that, they become more likely to say working class.

[More Fire for the People]

My impression is that among latinos in Oakland, the class distinction is blue-collar/white collar which is also my impression about how a lot of white people see it too.
From my experiences as a 'white' person (I'm actually mixed but considered white), I would say that white people divide themselves along two groups: middle class and poor whites. I belong to the latter group. Many blue-collar, working class people consider themselves middle class because white's don't consider themselves poor or working class unless they are long-term welfare recipients. Indeed, the definition of middle class for white people is anybody who isn't a long-term welfare recipient whether you make $300,000 a year or $30,000.