Debunking Puritanism?

[Hexen]

Is there any good articles/essays (or anyone here has a well thought out argument) out there that debunks stupid puritan claims of "nudity harms children", "nudity is pornography", and others?

The reason I posted this is because I'm quite fed up with this society censoring nudity and yet accepting violence and strangely male nipples...(which strangely reminds me that the US shuns the beauty of life itself and worships it's destruction which is a very scary & dangerous trend if you ask me...)

[SandiNeesta]

I think the most simple argument against this society's (meaning the US) attitude towards nudity is to look to the situation in other countries. I lived in Europe for a few years as a child and remember seeing commercials on regular TV for lotion or something that had a fleeting glimpse of a woman's breasts or advertisements with tasteful and not gratuitous nudity. Unlike my European counterparts, at first I was shocked and thought I was seeing something bad or "dirty". After awhile, it became normal and not shocking at all....Also in my experience, Europeans have a much healthier attitude towards sex and less societal problems relating to sex than we have. I can't help but assume that this corresponds in some way to their less rigid laws and censorship concerning nudity.

[Crusade]

I don't think children should see anyone naked. I don't think sex is more "harmful" to children than violence, but I do think it's something they shouldn't be exposed to at such a young age. Actually, it's really about context. If you're a young boy and the first time you see a naked woman is in a pornographic movie, then your views on sex might be devoid of any intimacy at all. I have a problem with sex being treated as something evil and wrong, but I also have a problem with it being treated like it isn't important. Tasteful nudity is fine. If you're the type of person who considers nudity sacred, then I believe you should also object to public displays of male nudity as well. If female nudity is the only thing being "protected" then when the time comes to have sex, it seems like the guy is taking her instead of the two "receiving" each other. Anything sounds better than the death over sex attitude we have in America though.

[SandiNeesta]

It doesn't seem like there is a whole lot of "tasteful' nudity in our society...it's either pornographic or nonexistent. Which might lead people to believe that ANY nudity must be distasteful and pornographic.

[Hexen]

Of course another problem I usually run into is when everytime I try to discuss about this with people ("if people over Europe can do it, why can't we do the same?"), they'll respond like ""Well, Not Here This is not Europe", or even worse "Move somewhere else" as if they got this 'fortress mentality' (yes I live in the US). Is there anyway to respond to this?

[CartCollector]

Tell your opponents, whenever they complain about some part of US law that they don't like (taxes will probably be number 1, followed by social conservative type complaints (we need to put the Ten Commandments in the schools!)) call them unpatriotic for opposing the law and tell them to move somewhere else.

[Kassad]

I can't believe someone would even suggest that Puritanism and Puritanical values needed debunking. I think history and human evolution do a decent job of refuting the reactionary ideology.

[Hexen]

I can't believe someone would even suggest that Puritanism and Puritanical values needed debunking.

Well, refuting may be the word I was looking for although debunking could mean the same thing.

The entire reason I created this thread was the fact I was fed up not just by US society but also the internet as well when it comes to website policies (such as youtube, blip.tv, modb, even forum host policies, etc) that equate nudity with pornography and therefore censor it or removes it and there's even people on the net when discussing modding games, they always say "cover/remove the boobs" when everytime something nudity related gets posted even if it's censored by these black blocks they do it anyways (http://www.moddb.com/mods/portal-combat/images/cloning-lab#imagebox). I guess that was where my frusturation comes from, especially they also censor nudity in video reviews (such as this for example (http://www.cinemassacre.com/new/?p=4768)) although they showed breasts (Duck Tits) in a Howard the Duck review although the same reviewer (Nostalgia Critic I think) censored breasts on human women in several reviews (Red Sonja, Commando, End of Days, I think)...

My main point, is that people's bodies should be freely expressed everywhere but the Puritan values need to be combated first before we can get anywhere which goes back why I created this thread...


I think history and human evolution do a decent job of refuting the reactionary ideology.

Specifically?

[CartCollector]

Specifically?
The whole "nudity is sinful" argument (in Christianity anyways) comes from the first chapter of Genesis when God kicks Adam and Eve out of Eden and says they have to wear clothes. No belief in Genesis, no belief that nudity is sinful.

[Hexen]

The whole "nudity is sinful" argument (in Christianity anyways) comes from the first chapter of Genesis when God kicks Adam and Eve out of Eden and says they have to wear clothes. No belief in Genesis, no belief that nudity is sinful.

I found a Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudity_in_religion) about nudity in religion and there's also "Christian Naturalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_naturism)"...hmmm...what do you make out of this?

[Outinleftfield]

I don't think children should see anyone naked. I don't think sex is more "harmful" to children than violence, but I do think it's something they shouldn't be exposed to at such a young age. Actually, it's really about context. If you're a young boy and the first time you see a naked woman is in a pornographic movie, then your views on sex might be devoid of any intimacy at all. I have a problem with sex being treated as something evil and wrong, but I also have a problem with it being treated like it isn't important. Tasteful nudity is fine. If you're the type of person who considers nudity sacred, then I believe you should also object to public displays of male nudity as well. If female nudity is the only thing being "protected" then when the time comes to have sex, it seems like the guy is taking her instead of the two "receiving" each other. Anything sounds better than the death over sex attitude we have in America though.

If you try to shield children from nudity chances are the first time they see nudity will be in pornography when they inevitably get curious about sex and investigate it when they're older.

We're all born naked. Humans lived without clothes for most of our history. There's nothing wrong with nonsexual nudity. Shame over nudity isn't natural. Little kids take off their clothes and run around naked all the time when adults aren't paying attention.

[bcbm]

The whole "nudity is sinful" argument (in Christianity anyways) comes from the first chapter of Genesis when God kicks Adam and Eve out of Eden and says they have to wear clothes. No belief in Genesis, no belief that nudity is sinful.

adam and eve decide to wear clothes after they eat the fruit; it isn't a command from god.

[HEAD ICE]

Emma Goldman wrote a fantastic piece on puritanism:

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/goldman/works/1917/puritanism.htm

[punisa]

interesting topic.
Nudity is seen as something obscene today, usually due to the religious influence no doubt.

But wouldn't there be some sorts of censorship even in a communist society?
Excuse me for being graphic, but I doubt that once in communism I will be able to freely expose my penis in the public just because I feel it needs some fresh air, right?