Religion=equality=communism? Religiously born communists

[Sam Da Communist]

Away from all the Non-scientific and spiritualist and other bullshit, i want to talk about the real positive aspects of Religion and how we can convert a relgiious person to the left.

Religion has Altruistic and community and charity like things in it. It embraces philosophy. It forces people to be good by the fear of hell, perhaps this can be changed to make the people fear the wrath of the proletariat?

I myself was a religious christian/jew abrahamist (i could never understand Jesus) as a kid, but i seemed to have have a real passion for social justice. I really fucking hated the rich (perhaps due to non-religious factors as well). and i liked communism since a kid!

Religion examples of charity and social justice
Islam, muhammad actually says that a poor man stealing for food is not a criminal
Christianity and jesus attacks the rich, and selfish and immoral clearly.

religious (or formorly religious) Communist comrades

*Stalin was studying russian orthodox christianity theology or some crap when he was a student,

*Kim il sung was from a protestant christian background, his grand daddy was a reverend.

*Karl marx atheist was raised a Christian, his mother christian, his father christian formerly jewish.

*Robert mugabe is catholic (and very homophobic)

*Libya is a strange Islamic marxist nation

[Dermezel]

The practical implications are equally breath taking. Every time a nation becomes truly advanced in terms of democratic, egalitarian education and prosperity it loses the faith. It's guaranteed. That is why perceptive theists are justifiably scared. In practical terms their only practical hope is for nations to continue to suffer from socio-economic disparity, poverty and maleducation. That strategy is, of course, neither credible nor desirable. And that is why the secular community should be more encouraged.

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/paul07/paul07_index.html

Religion is also correlated with three different measures of dishonesty. Most likely, it is people with religious sentiment that despite these sentiments tend to side with progressive causes for secular-moralistic reasons then it is people actually becoming leftist due to religion.

[SandiNeesta]

I was raised Catholic, as I got older I realized the ridiculous and hypocritical nature of the Catholic Church and most organized religions in general. However, i still held onto the basic ideas of god and the tenets of the religion that I was taught. It's just something I've personally chosen to believe in. In my experience some communist and leftist groups almost seem to insinuate that you can't be a communist and believe in god, or at the very least demonize anyone who does. It might help to point out that while the aspects of an "organized" religion are not necessarily conducive to the goals of communism, belief itself is not mutually exclusive with communism.

[F9]

Moved

[spiltteeth]

I said this in another post, but I think it's relevant here,

The left is often very hostile or dismissive to the religious; yet the largest social movement in the USA might very well be the Christian group Sojourners (although not explicitly socialist)

As Marxist geographer David Harvey points out, the only available spaces today to gather and plan protest are - churches.
And they're being highjacked by Glenn Beck/Pat Robinson Right fundamentalists - at least outside of major cities.

I honestly feel that the church is a major strategic player in any successful revolution - we NEED it on our side.

Even though those in power will always highjack any social institution to maintain control - I feel the Left should reach out their hands to Christians and fight this tendency.

The church doesn't HAVE to be an agent of oppression.

Sojourners could learn alot from many of the revolutionaries here! We should come together.

http://www.sojo.net/

[red cat]

I said this in another post, but I think it's relevant here,

The left is often very hostile or dismissive to the religious; yet the largest social movement in the USA might very well be the Christian group Sojourners (although not explicitly socialist)

As Marxist geographer David Harvey points out, the only available spaces today to gather and plan protest are - churches.
And they're being highjacked by Glenn Beck/Pat Robinson Right fundamentalists - at least outside of major cities.

I honestly feel that the church is a major strategic player in any successful revolution - we NEED it on our side.

Even though those in power will always highjack any social institution to maintain control - I feel the Left should reach out their hands to Christians and fight this tendency.

The church doesn't HAVE to be an agent of oppression.

Sojourners could learn alot from many of the revolutionaries here! We should come together.

http://www.sojo.net/

You are confusing between common religious people and religious institutions. Religious institutions almost always turn out to be strong supporters of the system. We don't need to win over these counter-revolutionaries.

The common masses who will make the revolution are mostly religious. Some very active communists might also be religious. To oust religion from the society is a lengthy job and intensifies only at a higher stage of socialism, but it happens nevertheless.

[spiltteeth]

You are confusing between common religious people and religious institutions. Religious institutions almost always turn out to be strong supporters of the system. We don't need to win over these counter-revolutionaries.

The common masses who will make the revolution are mostly religious. Some very active communists might also be religious. To oust religion from the society is a lengthy job and intensifies only at a higher stage of socialism, but it happens nevertheless.

I know what yr saying, any social institution will be highjacked by those in control.

But right now probably the largest communist activities in the world are coming out of the churches in Latin America - the revolution in Nicaragua received MAJOR support from the churches and Bishops.

I really do think, with Churches being one of the few spaces open to public organization, that they COULD prove decisive in a revolution...

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'm not religious - I was raised Catholic, but I remember sitting in the class I had to take for 1st communion thinking - this is all completely made-up!

But I agree, we shouldn't see workers with religious ideas as reactionary or part of the problem and the right-wing religious bigots and organizations should be treated politically, and treated like we would treat secular organizations of the same political outlook.

But back to the OP, most religious traditions have an egalitarian streak: Buddha represented the forces in society that wanted an end to the rigid caste system of traditional Hinduism, Islam and Christianity were sort of insurgent in origin and were explicitly against the ruling orders of their days. The Shiites, I believe were in turn fighting against hierarchy in Islam and the protestants were largely representing an emerging proto-capitalist conception of the world against the ruling-class feudalism of the Catholic Church.

While it is clear that it is a good thing that people have brotherly compassion and egalitarian sentiments, I think it is a stretch to say that they are all that close to us politically if it only goes this far and is based on morality, not politics. Liberals too believe in charity and have egalitarian ideas and a lot of things we might agree with, but they are coming from a different place.

But never the less, I think people are right and we should reach out to people who are developing political consciousness regardless if they are coming from a religious or spiritual background: as long as you believe in free-will and the ability of man, not god, to run society on earth then you should ally with us politically and fight for a better world now. We don't claim to know what happens after you die, we are materialists and only concerned with the here and now, if you can agree with us on issues concerning the material world, then you should roll with us.