Capitalism is in Trouble

[The Vegan Marxist]

Capitalism is an exploitative beast. It exploits labor, the environment and Governments. Just its nature. Eventually it hits a wall and then there's trouble. It hit this wall in September of '08 and all the fix-its are, unfortunately, only going to perpetuate the core problems. There are two core problems.

1) Overproduction.

You might ask, "What have we, as a country, produced?" Since we abandoned our manufacturing base the products we've been producing, other than movies and music, are financial products. All kinds of complicated stock products, insurance products and mortgages. These products are not only over-produced, they aren't very good. Some of them are disastrous.

2) Concentrated over-capitalization.

Right now, and the numbers are debated but here's your ballpark, around 5% of the population owns 90% of the wealth in this country. And they're not happy with that. They want more. The problem with that, for them (the wealthy), is no one will be able to buy the products they sell. It doesn't matter whether the masses are too in debt to get credit or are just too poor, if they can't afford your products, you can't sell them. So no new insurance policies, no new mortgages and those corporations built on delivery systems like oil companies and retail outlets will be full of products people can't buy. Stocks will go down and that will undermine their allure as a financial product.

I think Michael Moore is right. Get ready for the real crash.

http://www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/index.html#/real-time-with-bill-maher/talk/forums/item.html/eNrjcmbOYM5nLtQsy0xJzXfMS8ypLMlMds7PK0mtKFHPz0mBCQ Ukpqf6JeamcjIysiWWZqbYGphbpKSlWCSqGrmYp5pZAilDA6MU IJVkaAmiDAwME81MTFJTDJIT2RjZGAEMbh7i

The reason I'm posting this is because, 1) he, as in D. Durham, makes a valid point, as we all understand as well, how capitalism is a highly flawed economical system that exploits anyone & anything until it is reached the profitable level that it's wanting to exceed. Now, his last comment, in which Michael Moore did say himself on his website, that another crash is going to happen & this one is going to be huge & is going to change us forever. Now, me personally, I believe that such crash is coming soon, probably before the end of President Obama's first term. But my question is, what do all of you think?

[The Ghost of Revolutions]

A crash could be good. People could lose faith in captialism making socialism more acceptable. Also maybe it would make people less materialstic.

[Crusade]

A crash could be good. People could lose faith in captialism making socialism more acceptable. Also maybe it would make people less materialstic.

Or they can respond in a typically American way and turn to scapegoating and fantasizing about the "good ol" days. I'm not "anti american", I promise. I just haven't been given many reasons to believe they'd respond that way. Most Americans when stuff gets bad, they start hating people and things. Honestly, I heard a guy at work say the country went downhill because women "got out of the kitchen". :confused: Socialism as a CONCEPT needs to be known and understood in American minds before the crash in order to get that kind of response. If it's not, expect them to go by what they know, and for a lot of people, what they know is basically fascism.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

On what basis are you expecting another crash within the next three years?

[SandiNeesta]

I completely agree with you....I think another even bigger crash is inevitable. It's hard to say the exact time frame but in my opinion the next one may combine with other factors such as the peak oil crisis, environmental issues coming to a head and conflicts with other countries which will hopefully wake the majority up to the fact that our current system cannot continue the way it is.

[Omegared]

The reason I'm posting this is because, 1) he, as in D. Durham, makes a valid point, as we all understand as well, how capitalism is a highly flawed economical system that exploits anyone & anything until it is reached the profitable level that it's wanting to exceed. Now, his last comment, in which Michael Moore did say himself on his website, that another crash is going to happen & this one is going to be huge & is going to change us forever. Now, me personally, I believe that such crash is coming soon, probably before the end of President Obama's first term. But my question is, what do all of you think?

I agree completely and I believe that comrades should be be constantly planning to organize for a major crash in the next 3-4yrs. I believe that all radical Leftist organizations should develop ( if they haven't already) strong alliances, put some differences and understand that a solution to a problem that is 70- 80% good but executed now is infinitely better than a 100% solution that never comes, and last but far from least, come to grips with what a revolution is at its core (war) and any revolutionary should immediately abandon all notions growing old on a front porch in a country home.

[RadioRaheem84]

3-4 years? That soon, economists predict? I was thinking 5-10 but the situation must so grim that the next bubble cannot wait to burst.

Any info on why so soon?

[RED DAVE]

Geier's article is ISR is a good place to start.

http://www.isreview.org/issues/57/feat-economy.shtml

RED DAVE

[chegitz guevara]

A crash could be good. People could lose faith in captialism making socialism more acceptable. Also maybe it would make people less materialstic.

Not necessarily. Frequently the response of most people during periods of insecurity is to cling even harder to what security remains, like the state. In the absence of a mass movement to challenge capitalism and the state, a further crisis will likely benefit the far right more than human liberation.

[VILemon]

A crash could be good. People could lose faith in captialism making socialism more acceptable. Also maybe it would make people less materialstic.

Are you being serious? That's a disgusting sentiment. A crash might be a little bad for the ruling class, but it would be horrible for everyone else.

The idea of an economic disaster "teaching people a lesson" is condescending and cruel.

[h9socialist]

Comrades, we get ourselves into more trouble by constantly predicting or anticipating the next capitalist systemic crisis. There's some truth in the observation that we have confidently predicted 75 of the last three recessions. And as much as I love Michael Moore, I would not make any wagers that rely on his expertise as an economic prognosticator.

The problem is not whether there will be a capitalist economic crisis. I have never seen anything that refutes Marx's notion that crisis is inherent to the capitalist system. The problem is whether or not the socialist left has the strength, ideas and wherewithal to respond to capitalism's weakness! The truth is that we don't do a very good job on that. If we were half as organized as we like to think we are, we should have ended capitalism once and for all in the aftermath of the 2008 meltdown.

The challenge for the Left is to get our act together, so that when capitalism reaches another crisis we can have a major hand in moving the world towards socialism.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

Ack, come on, we're meant to be scientific socialists. I mean, if you are going to "call" a crash, fair enough, but you have to have sound economic reasons for it, or else we are little better than the current lot of neo - liberal economists.

No offence if you do have such reasons, but it just seems a little bold to state that a crash larger than one capitaism has ever experienced before in history will happen in the next three years, when we've (probably) just "escaped" from a terrible crisis already and typically that ushers in boom years for capitalism.

[The Ghost of Revolutions]

Are you being serious? That's a disgusting sentiment. A crash might be a little bad for the ruling class, but it would be horrible for everyone else.

The idea of an economic disaster "teaching people a lesson" is condescending and cruel.
How is hoping an economic crash will bring the downfall of captialism disgusting?

[The Ghost of Revolutions]

Not necessarily. Frequently the response of most people during periods of insecurity is to cling even harder to what security remains, like the state. In the absence of a mass movement to challenge capitalism and the state, a further crisis will likely benefit the far right more than human liberation.
If it was a war I could see people clinging to the state but I think an economic crisis would be different because they are not being physically threatend.

[Omegared]

3-4 years? That soon, economists predict? I was thinking 5-10 but the situation must so grim that the next bubble cannot wait to burst.

Any info on why so soon?

I shouldn't have said "crash" but, but it could be just beginning.