Starting A Business Isn't Easy

[nickdlc]

I thought I'd write about this because it's something that has been on my mind a lot and it's kind of philosophical.

I've been a communist for quite some time but it's all started to fly out the window in the past year. I've never liked working which is what got me interested in Socialism when I was younger, but I do want to have a comfortable life where I can do whatever I want . So I thought I'll start a business that way I won't have to go to work and I'll turn it into a co-op when it becomes more successful.

So for the past year I've been reading on the mindset to be a successful business owner and how to really create a business that will last. At first no one thought my business would survive even two months, but I've kept plugging away at it.

Now the business is slowly starting to succeed and the very same people who thought my business would die are asking me for jobs.

It makes me wonder why you never see communists start businesses. Apparently we all understand the capitalist system and how it works, but all the communists I know are fucking poor and don't know how to use money. Don't say you don't wanna start a business because you don't wanna exploit people either haha. The only way you can stop working before your 30 in the day and age is by owning a company.

My once rosy view of how communist society might be has changed, you really need dedicated people to make stuff work.

[ls]

No need to reinvent the wheel on the point of workers' self-exploitation in coops, Psy smashed all of the relevant points in this thread: http://www.revleft.com/vb/big-business-vs-t121443/index.html.


My once rosy view of how communist society might be has changed, you really need dedicated people to make stuff work.

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean or how a communist society would not be technocratic in its decision-making, would you like to elaborate on what you mean by this?

Starting a business doesn't particularly guarantee you more steadfastness than having a job on average either, just look at how many small businesses have gone under in this recession and how Thatcher encouraged her view of a "property owning democracy" to in fact, be one of mass bankruptcy on the part of small businesses. I hope you don't go bankrupt as you seem to have partially sincere intentions, but I think you have an incorrect view of a) how socialism works and b) how protected you are as a small businessman.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

This should be in Theory or Chit Chat.

[Lynx]

If I had the social skills or the entrepreneurial spirit I might have tried my hand at starting a business. The motto "You'll never get rich working for someone else" is widely accepted.

[Dimentio]

I thought I'd write about this because it's something that has been on my mind a lot and it's kind of philosophical.

I've been a communist for quite some time but it's all started to fly out the window in the past year. I've never liked working which is what got me interested in Socialism when I was younger, but I do want to have a comfortable life where I can do whatever I want . So I thought I'll start a business that way I won't have to go to work and I'll turn it into a co-op when it becomes more successful.

So for the past year I've been reading on the mindset to be a successful business owner and how to really create a business that will last. At first no one thought my business would survive even two months, but I've kept plugging away at it.

Now the business is slowly starting to succeed and the very same people who thought my business would die are asking me for jobs.

It makes me wonder why you never see communists start businesses. Apparently we all understand the capitalist system and how it works, but all the communists I know are fucking poor and don't know how to use money. Don't say you don't wanna start a business because you don't wanna exploit people either haha. The only way you can stop working before your 30 in the day and age is by owning a company.

My once rosy view of how communist society might be has changed, you really need dedicated people to make stuff work.

I know one communist who is a successful business owner in my home town. He is owning a small software company and at the same time is a member of a trotskyist party.

The main reason for me to not support a capitalist system is that it requires exponential growth which is leading to the depletion of its own foundation, which would mean that the environment basically would collapse due to the need to constantly replace natural eco-systems with mono-cultural production regions (like currently in Borneo). Moreover, we could theoretically reduce the amount of labour needed by each individual with 80% if we abolished the bottleneck which also is known as private control over the means of production.

http://en.technocracynet.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=155&Itemid=103

[The Douche]

Where did you get the start up capital?

Sure I would love to own my own business and have a decent idea, but I have no money to invest in it, and the bank is not going to give me a loan, and I don't know anybody with enough money to invest.

Seems to me like somewhere along the line you had more luck than good ideas/work ethic, but your ideas and work ethic helped carry your luck through.

Sorry, I don't support economic systems which rely on luck disguised as "hard work".

[RHIZOMES]

"The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." -- Lenin

[Physicist]

Most of the communists I know are either in college or teaching at college, so I don't know what that quantifies as in terms of abstract notions like "stress" or "hard work." I'd think it really funny to come across a commie boss, but to each their own. I've started up a worker cooperative before, and I guess that makes me "petty" (intentional) bourgeoisie.

[Raúl Duke]

It makes me wonder why you never see communists start businesses. Apparently we all understand the capitalist system and how it works, but all the communists I know are fucking poor and don't know how to use money. Don't say you don't wanna start a business because you don't wanna exploit people either haha.

That may not be necessarily true...
There's also other factors...if we were rich than we have benefited from the system and see little to no motivation seeking to overthrow it. So a rich communist is...a slight oxymoron. True, there are some well-off radicals who are getting good college educations, but they're not going to start a company at this point yet that doesn't mean they don't know how to handle their private finances per se.

[ZeroNowhere]

Your social relations are independent of you and ruling over you embodied as things. Have a nice day.

[nickdlc]

I hope you don't go bankrupt as you seem to have partially sincere intentions My intentions are pretty selfish, I just don't want to work anymore.


If I had the social skills or the entrepreneurial spirit I might have tried my hand at starting a business. Nah man look at the alternative of working a shit job your whole life just scraping by.


The main reason for me to not support a capitalist system is that it requires exponential growth which is leading to the depletion of its own foundation, which would mean that the environment basically would collapse due to the need to constantly replace natural eco-systems with mono-cultural production regions (like currently in Borneo) Communists have always had some theory why capitalism will end humanity. Personally I don't think that's gonna happen. The green movement is doing just fine within capitalism the earth will survive what were doing to it. By the way my business is a composting company.


Where did you get the start up capital? I saved up $10,000 over a year and a half. I'm not making the big bucks either. I made $13/hour but after taxes and deductions its about 25% less. I'm working on getting government loans but not starting a business just cause the government won't give you money is a losing game.

What I'm getting at is that I'm starting to see Communist philosophy has a bit of a "loser mentality". Everyone's talking about why there is no point to starting a businesses cause on "average" you'll fail. So what if 9 out of 10 businesses fail ... that means you'll have to start at least 9 businesses until you get one that works. This seems like a much better strategy to me then waiting for a revolution.

I'm not saying you guys are all losers I'm saying why not play the fucking game we know the rules.

[Raúl Duke]

Some might have played the game and formed co-operatives with friends.
Some might have tried the game, and failed; whether or not they were communists before or after.
Some might not be interested at all in starting a business.

The issue of business is that for every winner there's many losers. Also, if I remembered correctly, most small businesses fail.

If you want to start a business go ahead, we can't stop you. good luck, although depending on the nature of the business you'll probably become a member of the petit-bourgeoisie and I'm not sure why would you want to continue to be a communist (unless you think "that if a revolution were to happen, than maybe I should be on the side that I think would win, and I think the commies/working class will win")

[The Douche]

I saved up $10,000 over a year and a half. I'm not making the big bucks either. I made $13/hour but after taxes and deductions its about 25% less. I'm working on getting government loans but not starting a business just cause the government won't give you money is a losing game.

There isn't a single entry level position that I know of in my town that pays 13/hour, thats like years of raises around here. I just got a promotion and I make 9/hour and my friends flipped out.

How did you save up $10,000 in a year and a half? Were you living somewhere for free? Were you paying for health insurance at that time? Paying tuition? Buying your own food? Making a car payment?

I dunno what kind of a business you're starting but $10,000 may not even be that much depending on what you're doing.



I am an assitant manager, and my promotions have certainly been more luck than hardwork, I just happend to get the job at the right time, and get along well enough with the people who make descisions. All I did was work just hard enough to not look like a slacker.

[Elfcat]

Revolution Books, AK Press, the Niebyl-Proctor Marxist Library, Pacifica, various non-profit orgs are all businesses.

[Jimmie Higgins]

It makes me wonder why you never see communists start businesses.Well this is a straw-man because many do - Peter Camejo got successful by founding a "social justice" accounting firm. In the US from the late 1800s to the 1930s, most socialist and anarchist press like "Appeal to Reason" were run as private businesses rather than being party presses.


Apparently we all understand the capitalist system and how it works, but all the communists I know are fucking poor and don't know how to use money. Don't say you don't wanna start a business because you don't wanna exploit people either haha. The only way you can stop working before your 30 in the day and age is by owning a company.This might work on an individual basis or it might fail, but you are missing the big picture. So this is your answer for working people? We should all just start our own business? How will that work? Who will work for you if we all own our own businesses? How do you negate capitalist competition and the pressures that create monopolies that drive other businesses out of the market?

Only a little more than 7% of people in the US are self-employed and there is a very high failure rate even before the economic crisis. So I fail to see how communinsts not being self-employed is a "communist problem". It seems the failure of small business is a systemic capitalist problem.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/small-business-2009-08.pdf

Most people don't like working for a boss and dream of or try to start their own businesses, play the lotto, engage in get-rich-quick schemes, flipping houses, etc. but it simply is idealist to think that they could all be self-employed even if they all had the best training, good ideas, start-up cash etc. The pressures of capitalism itself drives businesses under even when they are useful and competition pushes companies towards monopolies. On top of this is the crisis of overproduction in which recovery of the capitalist economy usually comes in the form of larger firms buying up their competitors.

So if you can make a go at it for a while, all the best to you, but it doesn't solve the systemic problems of a system based on wage-slavery and inequality. It won't prevent imperialism and competition between capitalist countries from bombing population centers in wars to gain more markets or more influence. It won't prevent the inherent problems of capitalism which drive most businesses under and cause misery for millions of workers.

[Physicist]

Some might have played the game and formed co-operatives with friends.
Some might have tried the game, and failed; whether or not they were communists before or after.
Some might not be interested at all in starting a business.

The issue of business is that for every winner there's many losers. Also, if I remembered correctly, most small businesses fail.

If you want to start a business go ahead, we can't stop you. good luck, although depending on the nature of the business you'll probably become a member of the petit-bourgeoisie and I'm not sure why would you want to continue to be a communist (unless you think "that if a revolution were to happen, than maybe I should be on the side that I think would win, and I think the commies/working class will win")

Probably will just become a petit-bourgeoisie socialist like me, haha.

[Scary Monster]

Communists have always had some theory why capitalism will end humanity. Personally I don't think that's gonna happen. The green movement is doing just fine within capitalism the earth will survive what were doing to it. By the way my business is a composting company.

Lol. Capitalism does quite enough mass damage to the earth and its population with its full scale wars, starving people, people being tortured and bombed, democratically-elected governments being overthrown by the US, UK etc. for a dictatorial puppet government to gain access to business interests, and so on. The Green movement doesnt get rid of the root cause of environmental destruction.


I saved up $10,000 over a year and a half. I'm not making the big bucks either. I made $13/hour but after taxes and deductions its about 25% less. I'm working on getting government loans but not starting a business just cause the government won't give you money is a losing game.

How in the HELL did u save up 10 grand on $13/hour within a year??? I guess you dont pay rent, have any kids/dependents or transportation? 13 an hour is like less than 23,000 a year...if u live in the US, your statement is very hard to believe. Not that there's anything wrong with this, but most people just arent in your position to be saving that much money so quickly.


I'm getting at is that I'm starting to see Communist philosophy has a bit of a "loser mentality". Everyone's talking about why there is no point to starting a businesses cause on "average" you'll fail. So what if 9 out of 10 businesses fail ... that means you'll have to start at least 9 businesses until you get one that works. This seems like a much better strategy to me then waiting for a revolution.

Hah, theres plenty of business owners and successful commies on this site, just as in real life. The whole reason why we are communists is because it's a fact that workers are payed less than the value of their labor, and that we know that the first world's excess material wealth only exists because of the third world's subjugation to the first world, and numerous other reasons. We fight for world wide social justice (sorry for the sloganeering :P), and to us, communism is the most practical and logical way of achieving that.