Revolutionary Social Services.

[Little Bobby Hutton]

Hello Comrades, i recently had to spent a few nights in a homeless shelter and while there saw the horrible conditions a new underclass have to live and stagnate as no one wishes to hire homeless people.
There was a guy with horrendus smelling clothes who walked on crutches in the second shelter i stayed, the first was liberty house wich wasnt as bad, this guy was so alone that when i shook his hand he didnt let go for ages and was almost in tears i had spoke to him as a man not a tramp.
There were families forced to live in a small room next to people who were clearly drug dealers , on top of that the guy next to me screamed at himself all night, luckily for me i packed my red book and Mao got me through. I wanted to ask if anyone knew of any organisations that help people this hard on their luck, these guys i spoke to mostly turned to crime, they then get called scum and the like by most workers, but when your living in a hostel sit in with your door locked ANY MEANS NESCESARRY.

[Little Bobby Hutton]

The communist party should take over private flats etc and let people in free of rent and run it for the people, this would create not only huge propoganda victories but would genuinely help the homeless and most poor and desperate in our society.
If everyone in the CPB CPGB ML SP got together to help it would be a great thing and would spark conciousness and discussion in the working class communities.

[Organic Revolution]

I have spent a good amount of my life homeless, and have had many interactions with social service organizations. most are ineffective and pointless, although there are a few positives. I dont know if building "Revolutionary Solidarity" makes much sense, because it isnt gear towards reclaiming the means of a dignified life, but of putting a band-aid on the problem.

[Robocommie]

The communist party should take over private flats etc and let people in free of rent and run it for the people, this would create not only huge propoganda victories but would genuinely help the homeless and most poor and desperate in our society.
If everyone in the CPB CPGB ML SP got together to help it would be a great thing and would spark conciousness and discussion in the working class communities.

That's not a bad idea, but that kind of thing would take a lot of money to get started.

[Crux]

I know the CWI has done some emergency help work in kashmir and sri lanka. I mean I do think doing social work is a good idea, but, as has been noted, it would take a lot of resources. I know the anarcho-syndicalist youth organization in my city have been doing some "free lunch for the unemployed" thing that seems to have been pretty popular and worked well, so I guess it's doable.

[Little Bobby Hutton]

Not nescisarily comrade, all that is needed is men and women willing to participate, and im sure we could expropriate tesco for the food bedding etc that we would need to keep our newly formed peoples housing running.
Of course the filth would try and retake the properties so we would have to keep on taking more and more properties, on the ground action is what we need not Harpal or some other old Dogmatist theorising.
Just my opinion though Comrades, as i see it too many of us look to revolution, well without groundwork it willl never come.

[bayano]

ive participated in such stuff, and hear are some immediate thoughts

firstly, its important how its conceptualized. it shouldnt be 'social service.' concepts in the past have included 'revolutionary survival programs', 'revolutionary infrastructure.' to feel that revolutionaries are 'serving' the people is to create a power dynamic between the two, and to create a distinction. its important to fundamentally include a dynamic that allows people to build for themselves, consider themselves part of the process, and to not creat revolutionary:people dichotomies.

second, in the interest of constructing dual power and considering your user name, the Black Panthers did these extensively, but this was in direct relationship to the armed nature of the party. they constituted both the revolutionary survival programs and the armed organ of the population, and together these allowed them to become almost a second power in neighborhoods in contradiction with the state.

just some immediate thoughts

[Little Bobby Hutton]

As i see it the biggest problem is in europe it is illegal to own a pistol rifle etc, so in effect the defending of the aquired property would be through working class fists and boots, if say a towerblock a week (private owned) then we could keep momentum going and make the headlines, and if we do get beaten out by the pigs, well then we have video cameras showing the cops beating working class people, either way it will draw support from the people.

[#FF0000]

The Black Panthers did this and I always thought it was an excellent idea. I have a feeling this would work better as a local sort of thing, though, as opposed to a national or international organization.

Anyone have sources on how effective the Black Panthers were with their community things, though?

[the last donut of the night]

I think that it would be good at times of low-class consciousness, such as now, so that the party is known by the people and trusted by the people. I'm sure that if more working-class communities had a PSL or SPUSA base, more people would turn to socialism as it'd be easier to refute anti-communist slogans. People would think, "how can socialism be so bad if they're in my community and doing more than the government?" It would build a lot of trust. The problem is that a lot of organizations are cash-strapped and such a program is hard to accomplish on a regional or even national scale.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Due to the property bubble created in Ireland there are now over 15,000 empty hotel bedrooms than will never be occupied plus upwards of 150,000 houses and apartments lying idle.

One proposal put forward for the empty hotel bedrooms is to convert them into state run nursing facilities for the elderly (the going rate for nusing homes is about €2,000 a week) and step down beds for people convalescing from hospital treatment (thereby freeing up much needed hospital beds). Coversion would be minimal cost as the hotel rooms were already built to regulations for disabled people etc. The main cost would be for the provision of staff and given the unemployment rate that would be welcome.

Many of the empty houses and apartments could be used to house the 100,000+ families in ireland on the housing waiting list - the government already own the properties as a result of taking out the bad debts built up by tha banks and they would save close to €1billion a year that is currently going into the pockets of landlords in the form of rent allowance for private accomodation.

[Little Bobby Hutton]

The panthers also opened medical clinics to give vacines and to test kids for siclesemia, in USA where the most basic of human rights, ie healthcare are refused to the working class, this would not only save lives but earn the communist parties huge support. They also followed black people to the station when they were arrested and got them a lawyer etc and made sure they were not brutalised, they did all sorts for the communities they opperated in, and we must do the same.

[Little Bobby Hutton]

Would the communist party help or would they stop their members joining

[Crux]

As i see it the biggest problem is in europe it is illegal to own a pistol rifle etc, so in effect the defending of the aquired property would be through working class fists and boots, if say a towerblock a week (private owned) then we could keep momentum going and make the headlines, and if we do get beaten out by the pigs, well then we have video cameras showing the cops beating working class people, either way it will draw support from the people.
I do not think using fire arms against the police is politically possible at present, even if you have a very popular house occupation. But filming when the police arrive, or better yet make sure the media is already there is always a good idea. I have taken part in a number of house occupations here in sweden. They have all had a more or less "social" character with people's kitchen's and whatnot. One of the most successful was the occupation of a youth center, where both neighbors, the kids who used to hang there and some of the personell partook. During the time the occupation was in effect it also resumed working as a youth center.

[Little Bobby Hutton]

[QUOTE=Mayakovsky;1689500]I do not think using fire arms against the police is politically possible at present, even if you have a very popular house occupation. But filming when the police arrive, or better yet make sure the media is already there is always a good idea. I have taken part in a number of house occupations here in sweden. They have all had a more or less "social" character with people's kitchen's and whatnot. One of the most successful was the occupation of a youth center, where both neighbors, the kids who used to hang there and some of the personell partook. During the time the occupation was in effect it also resumed working as a youth center.[/QUOTED
Did the youth understand why the things weere happening or did they just participate for fun ie, were they politically aware?.

[Crux]

There was a pretty high consciousness overall. Some were very aware for such young ones. No love for the police either.

[Little Bobby Hutton]

Taking over newly developed tower blocks would be a good idea, lots of room for hundreds of homeless people-, would be a media fair too, but im sttill thinking about how this could be pulled off and how usefull it would be.

[Invincible Summer]

I'm not sure if they have something like Food Not Bombs in Europe, but that could be a way to provide food services. Although you do get ticketed and stuff a lot for not being certified to distribute food. Also, most people involved in that are lifestylist anarchists with no clear socialist message. But you could change that.

[bailey_187]

Would the communist party help or would they stop their members joining

This is something i can imagine the Revolutionary Communist Group doing. Get in contact with them

[No pasarán]

I'm not sure if they have something like Food Not Bombs in Europe, but that could be a way to provide food services. Although you do get ticketed and stuff a lot for not being certified to distribute food. Also, most people involved in that are lifestylist anarchists with no clear socialist message. But you could change that.

I bet you still eat there food though... anyways, FNB does exist over here and usually goes down fairly well with the local community usually although of course it mostly attracts the converted.

The tactic of mass squatting/ ocuppying a council estate has been tried in London more than twice over the last year. Unfourtuantely trendy 'art' squating students are much more likely to attract attention from the media, than genuinely homeless families. Because the mainstream media are of course a shower of ****s.

Anyways here are some london groups who I recon are relevant to the topic who are definately making strong links localy.

http://www.lcap.org.uk/
http://hackneyunemployedworkers.wordpress.com/

Funnily enough they were both started by groups of 'lifestyle' anarchists...

[Invincible Summer]

I bet you still eat there food though... anyways, FNB does exist over here and usually goes down fairly well with the local community usually although of course it mostly attracts the converted.

I'm not sure what you mean by "I bet you still eat there [sic] food."

About it only attracting "the converted" - I find that interesting, because although that is certainly partially the case here, there are quite a few members of poor communities that take part in FNB/take advantage of the food. It's not just those who know about it.


Because the mainstream media are of course a shower of ****s. Please don't use that word.



Anyways here are some london groups who I recon are relevant to the topic who are definately making strong links localy.

http://www.lcap.org.uk/
http://hackneyunemployedworkers.wordpress.com/

Funnily enough they were both started by groups of 'lifestyle' anarchists...When I mentioned the anarchists that were generally involved in FNB over here, I referred to them lifestylists because they seem to be all smug in being counter-culture and seem to look down on those who aren't into squatting and doing shit like that. Even if you're a revolutionary, I've met some criticism just because I'm from a middle class background.

Obviously anarchists can create useful organizations, there's no doubt about that. But "lifestylists" don't seem to have a socialist/communist goal in mind, which is problematic IMO

[Little Bobby Hutton]

I would be a bit aprehensive about doing this type of thing, i am slightly woried it will just end in the brutalization and even higher represion of the Urban proletariat, and would not create a stable base for the homeless and the proletariat at large.
It could work but would need alot of support from the various socialist parties.

[No pasarán]

Rise like Lions please don't take me too personely. I was just taking a wee bit of the piss. As for 'lifestylers', well it depends on your definition of that. To me it could also mean someone who is livin their political views to the full.As for those who choose to look down on you...well I've had shit of them becaus-, I have a child, I don't have holes in me trousers, I no longer squat, I'm not off me face the whole time, having a job... sometimes I'm jealous of their lifes though since I've been heavily involved with some of them. Best to just find the ones you can work with.

Also why can't I use the 'C' word, its not considered as offensive in my culture, although I was obviously used it to describe my total contempt for the mainstream media.

[No pasarán]

I would be a bit aprehensive about doing this type of thing, i am slightly woried it will just end in the brutalization and even higher represion of the Urban proletariat, and would not create a stable base for the homeless and the proletariat at large.
It could work but would need alot of support from the various socialist parties.

Ok sorry, maybe I'm thick, but I barely understood I word of that. Are you basicly saying that in theory people should go out and and liberate the 'Urban proletariat', but that you wouldn't risk such things as squatting or occupying properties? Maybe I missed you there somewhere.

[Little Bobby Hutton]

Ok sorry, maybe I'm thick, but I barely understood I word of that. Are you basicly saying that in theory people should go out and and liberate the 'Urban proletariat', but that you wouldn't risk such things as squatting or occupying properties? Maybe I missed you there somewhere.

Sorry if my post was a bit confusing, all i meant was, i am aprehensive about carrying out militant activity like taking over tower blocks and defending them from the pigs, because i am unsure of the success it would garnerand would be worried it would just lead to those workers and homeless people who join us being further brutalized, beaten, thrown in jail etc. I think arming ourselves first is the only way it could work, and most comrades arent ready to devote to something that heavy atm.

[No pasarán]

Sorry if my post was a bit confusing, all i meant was, i am aprehensive about carrying out militant activity like taking over tower blocks and defending them from the pigs, because i am unsure of the success it would garnerand would be worried it would just lead to those workers and homeless people who join us being further brutalized, beaten, thrown in jail etc. I think arming ourselves first is the only way it could work, and most comrades arent ready to devote to something that heavy atm.


Ok, what they have done in London, is target estates where part or more of the estate is set for demolition. They have then moved in mass and stuck their section 6's (legal document that allows you to squat a building in the uk). Of course local authorities have been known to smash the inside of these buildings up or heavily bricked up the entrances to stop their buildings being squated. but once you are inside and have changed the locks that means you have at least tempory legal possesion of the building. Then a court order is needed to get you out.

[Little Bobby Hutton]

this dosent involve forcefully taking private property and gaining mass support/ media attention.
squatting and lawfully residing isnt revolutionary comrade, its for Anarchist posers to bury their head in the sand.
BTW that wasnt meant as a dig to real, revolutionary Anarchists, but to the hair dying alternative college teens.

[No pasarán]

Squatting isn't revolutionary? Maybe not but I have been forced to squat several times in the past, because I couldn't afford to rent. You seem to have discounted what this group of squatters actually did because they are 'Anarchist posers to bury their head in the sand'?? These groups of squatters included families, refugees, single mothers with several children and activists ranging from 17- 70? Some of these people indentified themselves as anarchists, but most didn't.

Personely I have chosen to now live in housing co-ops, since I'm not able to get a council flat and I don't want to rent from a private landlord. I was born into a council flat and I will probably die having never owned a property. If I have to I'll go back to squating.

As for armed revolt... well its a nice idea in theory and without giving too much away about myself I have family who have done that. But in the end, they lost the support of their own communities. I've fought coppers, fascists, hunters (well their stewards). I could write meself a nice long list of actions I've taken against the state and other oppressers, but then I might end up giving too much away. And I'm not here to blow smoke up my own hole. Sometimes its better to be more practical and squatting is a practical way to gain property, also doing actions like community kitchens, working with the actual homeless, the unemployed... and of course the working class is practical. And it gains you more support for later actions.

You should check out LCAP and the Hackney Unemployed workers, before you dismiss them out of hand.

[Little Bobby Hutton]

No doubt their helping people comrade, please dont think i meant any offence, but it isnt contributing to any coherent class struggle or gaining mass involvement, to do that we need political parties, weapons, we need revolutionaries to bring socialist thought into the houses of the proletariat, the problem is all the people who say they are revolutionary are scared of going to the pridons or risking their life or career in the name of starting grasswork militant struggle.
Well like Fred Hampton said, you can jail revolutionaries, but you cant jail a revolution.
Insurection can start in a tower block with a few marxists and end with the toppling of the Bourgesie, unless we start real millitant activism, then why bother claiming the title of Revolutionary Comrade.
Or maybe you do not agree with my thoughts..... Let me know how you think the left should act .
Power to the people.

[No pasarán]

Don't worry, I'm not taking you personelly. It's just a debate after all.

As for how the left should act, well it needs to have more support from the actual people. And that starts with grass roots actions, actually doing something for these people not telling what they need or what they want but providing for them and winning their support and trust. And those who consider themselves to be activists need to be going out and commiting relevant acts, that will get the attention of the masses, but mostly importantly actually fucking work!

Untill any movement actually has some serious numbers and support behind it though its mostly gonna be preaching to the converted no matter how succesful it is. Red Action/ AFA (and later Antifa), Jesus even fuckin Class War... were a fuck lot more real than the SWP were to me when I was younger because. The SWP ain't ever done nothing for me except try to sell me a paper.

Look at the links that I posted, cos I recon they're relevant to the topic and I recon you might apprciate what they're doing even if your polotics totally differ.

[Little Bobby Hutton]

Ill give them a look now Comrade, also how did classwar help people, i thought Ian Bone was very much a bit of an idiot who swears every minute, But i dont really know know much about him or his Group, though i hear they fucked some pigs up at the poll tax riot.

[No pasarán]

Ill give them a look now Comrade, also how did classwar help people, i thought Ian Bone was very much a bit of an idiot who swears every minute, But i dont really know know much about him or his Group, though i hear they fucked some pigs up at the poll tax riot.

See that is part of why I liked them haha... Ian Bone is alright, I enjoy his sense of humour and don't take him too seriously. Most of what he says is for impact, I mean...

http://www.notmytribe.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/classwar-new-homes-rich.gifhttp://radicalgraphics.org/albums/Stencils/classwar.gif

Can't take it too seriously, but what a great image. But if you can cut through all the stuff that is said for the reaction he does have some good points to make occasionaly. As for the current class war.. well they're not doing anything new really are they? I could be a lot more critical but I don't think its worth it. I've got mates who were involved with class war in the 'glory days' and I love the idea of actions like "moon the monarchy"...

[No pasarán]

Fuck that image wasn't supposed to be so big... shite... can't seem to shrink it either?

[Little Bobby Hutton]

Nice picture, i also liked Bonws whole, "we have no demands to make of you, our banners read homely, beware, your future executioners", plus id love to have a pint with the man., cant say that about anyone at the other groups haha.
PS i never went to college or uni im working class too COMRADEE

[Little Bobby Hutton]

To add to the part about revolutionaries being jailed, it would be important to radicalise the working class in prison, when revolutionaries get sent to the pig cages, like the Black Panthers Black Guerrilla Fam etc, it is a fertile breeding ground for marxist analysys of inmates.
Most in prison are in due to circumstances of proletarian strife.