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red cat
8th March 2010, 13:26
Return of the natives



(http://www.newstatesman.com/writers/slavoj_zizek)
Published 04 March 2010


Beneath the idealism and political correctness of Avatar, in the spotlight at the Oscars on Sunday, lie brutal racist undertones.



http://images.newstatesman.com/articles/2010//20100303_2010+10avatar_w.jpg



James Cameron's Avatar tells the story of a disabled ex-marine, sent from earth to infiltrate a race of blue-skinned aboriginal people on a distant planet and persuade them to let his employer mine their homeland for natural resources. Through a complex biological manipulation, the hero's mind gains control of his "avatar", in the body of a young aborigine.


These aborigines are deeply spiritual and live in harmony with nature (they can plug a cable that sticks out of their body into horses and trees to communicate with them). Predictably, the marine falls in love with a beautiful aboriginal princess and joins the aborigines in battle, helping them to throw out the human invaders and saving their planet. At the film's end, the hero transposes his soul from his damaged human body to his aboriginal avatar, thus becoming one of them.


Given the 3-D hyperreality of the film, with its combination of real actors and animated digital corrections, Avatar should be compared to films such as Who Framed Roger Rabbit (1988) or The Matrix (1999). In each, the hero is caught between our ordinary reality and an imagined universe - of cartoons in Roger Rabbit, of digital reality in The Matrix, or of the digitally enhanced everyday reality of the planet in Avatar. What one should thus bear in mind is that, although Avatar's narrative is supposed to take place in one and the same "real" reality, we are dealing - at the level of the underlying symbolic economy - with two realities: the ordinary world of imperialist colonialism on the one hand, and a fantasy world, populated by aborigines who live in an incestuous link with nature, on the other. (The latter should not be confused with the miserable reality of actual exploited peoples.) The end of the film should be read as the hero fully migrating from reality into the fantasy world - as if, in The Matrix, Neo were to decide to immerse himself again fully in the matrix.


This does not mean, however, that we should reject Avatar on behalf of a more "authentic" acceptance of the real world. If we subtract fantasy from reality, then reality itself loses its consistency and disintegrates. To choose between "either accepting reality or choosing fantasy" is wrong: if we really want to change or escape our social reality, the first thing to do is change our fantasies that make us fit this reality. Because the hero of Avatar doesn't do this, his subjective position is what Jacques Lacan, with regard to de Sade, called le dupe de son fantasme.


This is why it is interesting to imagine a sequel to Avatar in which, after a couple of years (or, rather, months) of bliss, the hero starts to feel a weird discontent and to miss the corrupted human universe. The source of this discontent is not only that every reality, no matter how perfect it is, sooner or later disappoints us. Such a perfect fantasy disappoints us precisely because of its perfection: what this perfection signals is that it holds no place for us, the subjects who imagine it.


The utopia imagined in Avatar follows the Hollywood formula for producing a couple - the long tradition of a resigned white hero who has to go among the savages to find a proper sexual partner (just recall Dances With Wolves). In a typical Hollywood product, everything, from the fate of the Knights of the Round Table to asteroids hitting the earth, is transposed into an Oedipal narrative. The ridiculous climax of this procedure of staging great historical events as the background to the formation of a couple is Warren Beatty's Reds (1981), in which Hollywood found a way to rehabilitate the October Revolution, arguably the most traumatic historical event of the 20th century. In Reds, the couple of John Reed and Louise Bryant are in deep emotional crisis; their love is reignited when Louise watches John deliver an impassioned revolutionary speech.


What follows is the couple's lovemaking, intersected with archetypal scenes from the revolution, some of which reverberate in an all too obvious way with the sex; say, when John penetrates Louise, the camera cuts to a street where a dark crowd of demonstrators envelops and stops a penetrating "phallic" tram - all this against the background of the singing of "The Internationale". When, at the orgasmic climax, Lenin himself appears, addressing a packed hall of delegates, he is more a wise teacher overseeing the couple's love-initiation than a cold revolutionary leader.

Even the October Revolution is OK, according to Hollywood, if it serves the reconstitution of a couple.


In a similar way, is Cameron's previous blockbuster, Titanic, really about the catastrophe of the ship hitting the iceberg? One should be
attentive to the precise moment of the catastrophe: it takes place when the young lovers (Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet), immediately after consummating their relationship, return to the ship's deck. Even more crucial is that, on deck, Winslet tells her lover that when the ship reaches New York the next morning, she will leave with him, preferring a life of poverty with her true love to a false, corrupted life among the rich.


At this moment the ship hits the iceberg, in order to prevent what would undoubtedly have been the true catastrophe, namely the couple's life in New York. One can safely guess that soon the misery of everyday life would have destroyed their love. The catastrophe thus occurs in order to save their love, to sustain the illusion that, if it had not happened, they would have lived "happily ever after". A further clue is provided by DiCaprio's final moments. He is freezing in the cold water, dying, while Winslet is safely floating on a large piece of wood. Aware that she is losing him, she cries "I'll never let you go!" - and as she says this, she pushes him away with her hands.


Why? Because he has done his job. Beneath the story of a love affair, Titanic tells another story, that of a spoiled high-society girl with an identity crisis: she is confused, doesn't know what to do with herself, and DiCaprio, much more than just her love partner, is a kind of "vanishing mediator" whose function is to restore her sense of identity and purpose in life. His last words before he disappears into the freezing North Atlantic are not the words of a departing lover, but the message of a preacher, telling her to be honest and faithful to herself.


Cameron's superficial Hollywood Marxism (his crude privileging of the lower classes and caricatural depiction of the cruel egotism of the rich) should not deceive us. Beneath this sympathy for the poor lies a reactionary myth, first fully deployed by Rudyard Kipling's Captains Courageous. It concerns a young rich person in crisis who gets his (or her) vitality estored through brief intimate contact with the full-blooded life of the poor. What lurks behind the compassion for the poor is their vampiric exploitation.


But today, Hollywood increasingly seems to have abandoned this formula. The film of Dan Brown's Angels and Demons must surely be the first case of a Hollywood adaptation of a popular novel in which there is sex between the hero and the heroine in the book, but not in its film version - in clear contrast to the old tradition of adding a sex scene to a film based on a novel in which there is none. There is nothing liberating about this absence of sex; we are rather dealing with yet more proof of the phenomenon described by Alain Badiou in his Éloge de l'amour - today, in our pragmatic-narcissistic era, the very notion of falling in love, of a passionate attachment to a sexual partner, is considered obsolete and dangerous.


Avatar's fidelity to the old formula of creating a couple, its full trust in fantasy, and its story of a white man marrying the aboriginal princess and becoming king, make it ideologically a rather conservative, old-fashioned film. Its technical brilliance serves to cover up this basic conservatism. It is easy to discover, beneath the politically correct themes (an honest white guy siding with ecologically sound aborigines against the "military-industrial complex" of the imperialist invaders), an array of brutal racist motifs: a paraplegic outcast from earth is good enough to get the hand of abeautiful local princess, and to help the natives win the decisive battle. The film teaches us that the only choice the aborigines have is to be saved by the human beings or to be destroyed by them. In other words, they can choose either to be the victim of imperialist reality, or to play their allotted role in the white man's fantasy.


At the same time as Avatar is making money all around the world (it generated $1bn after less than three weeks of release), something that strangely resembles its plot is taking place. The southern hills of the Indian state of Orissa, inhabited by the Dongria Kondh people, were sold to mining companies that plan to exploit their immense reserves of bauxite (the deposits are considered to be worth at least $4trn). In reaction to this project, a Maoist (Naxalite) armed rebellion exploded.
Arundhati Roy, in Outlook India magazine, writes that the Maoist guerrilla army


is made up almost entirely of desperately poor tribal people living in conditions of such chronic hunger that it verges on famine of the kind we only associate with sub-Saharan Africa. They are people who, even after 60 years of India's so-called independence, have not had access to education, health care or legal redress. They are people who have been mercilessly exploited for decades, consistently cheated by small businessmen and moneylenders, the women raped as a matter of right by police and forest department personnel. Their journey back to a semblance of dignity is due in large part to the Maoist cadres who have lived and worked and fought by their sides for decades. If the tribals have taken up arms, they have done so because a government which has given them nothing but violence and neglect now wants to snatch away the last thing they have - their land . . . They believe that if they do not fight for their land, they will be annihilated . . . their ragged, malnutritioned army, the bulk of whose soldiers have never seen a train or a bus or even a small town, are fighting only for survival.
The Indian prime minister characterised this rebellion as the "single largest internal security threat"; the big media, which present it as extremist resistance to progress, are full of stories about "red terrorism", replacing stories about "Islamist terrorism". No wonder the Indian state is responding with a big military operation against "Maoist strongholds" in the jungles of central India. And it is true that both sides are resorting to great violence in this brutal war, that the "people's justice" of the Maoists is harsh. However, no matter how unpalatable this violence is to our liberal taste, we have no right to condemn it. Why? Because their situation is precisely that of Hegel's rabble: the Naxalite rebels in India are starving tribal people, to whom the minimum of a dignified life is denied.


So where is Cameron's film here? Nowhere: in Orissa, there are no noble princesses waiting for white heroes to seduce them and help their people, just the Maoists organising the starving farmers. The film enables us to practise a typical ideological division: sympathising with the idealised aborigines while rejecting their actual struggle. The same people who enjoy the film and admire its aboriginal rebels would in all probability turn away in horror from the Naxalites, dismissing them as murderous terrorists. The true avatar is thus Avatar itself - the film substituting for reality.


http://www.newstatesman.com/film/2010/03/avatar-reality-love-couple-sex


Slavoj Žižek is a philosopher and critic
The Academy Awards ceremony is on 7 March

Belisarius
8th March 2010, 18:34
Zizek always seems to have enlightening views on contemporary society.

x359594
9th March 2010, 16:13
I was waiting to read what Zizek had to say about this movie. It makes up for his strained reading of 300.

Kléber
9th March 2010, 16:46
I was waiting to read what Zizek had to say about this movie. It makes up for his strained reading of 300.
Yeah, that was weird

The Vegan Marxist
9th March 2010, 17:55
I love his comparison to the Naxalites. This speaks more truth than one would want to know.

kalu
11th March 2010, 15:45
I thought it was interesting how he connected Avatar to Cameron's other film (Titanic) through the theme of the "reconstituted couple." I was glad at least it was an original piece, I mean I think there are several very obvious criticisms of Avatar that were presented with flare by even our own posters in the previous thread. But the ending of this article was a nice restatement. Kudos to Zizek, haven't read much of his stuff.

red cat
11th March 2010, 15:50
I love his comparison to the Naxalites. This speaks more truth than one would want to know.

Zizek became very interested in Naxalism last year after reading a book entitled "The Red Sun" or something like that which gives a lot of statistics on Indian Maoists.

x359594
11th March 2010, 16:50
I thought it was interesting how he connected Avatar to Cameron's other film (Titanic) through the theme of the "reconstituted couple."...Kudos to Zizek, haven't read much of his stuff.

The "reconstituted couple" trope comes from the criticism of Raymond Bellour (acknowledged by Zizek in other places.) Zizek always intersperses criticism of popular culture throughout his writings and he's even made a movie, The Pervert's Guide to Cinema. His readings are always interesting even when they're way off the mark.

Dimentio
11th March 2010, 17:17
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/12/evo-morales-praises-avata_n_420663.html

Invincible Summer
11th March 2010, 22:01
I've always noticed how in movies and TV people seem to love the "rebel" character, but when groups actually rebel in real life, people are like "Wtf are you doing?"

I guess people have problems associating groups like the Naxalites or EZLN with the Rebel Alliance because it actually challenges their values.

ZombieGrits
12th March 2010, 03:57
Slavoj, you da man :thumbup1:

I never even saw avatar, the plot is so cliched that it's not even worth watching. but then again, since when has creativity ever come before profit in Hollywood? :rolleyes:

Sendo
12th March 2010, 04:38
I've always noticed how in movies and TV people seem to love the "rebel" character, but when groups actually rebel in real life, people are like "Wtf are you doing?"

I guess people have problems associating groups like the Naxalites or EZLN with the Rebel Alliance because it actually challenges their values.

That's probably the best to take out of it--that the real "Avatar" story is in in India with the Maoist rebels. They aren't princesses. They're blacked out or demonized. They're rag-tag warriors whose plight isn't worthy of our attention or art. They definitely challenge our values. While Avatar attempts this with allegory, many bourgeois-minded moviegoers imagine, non-materially, that "we will never end up this bad, because this is universally wrong a la the Holocaust."

It's one thing to say we shouldn't colonize alien worlds in the future, but when it comes to alien nations in the present, the movies are again swept under the rug, or assaulted (look at something left-liberal like JFK), and the the films that "neutrally" champion the courage of the imperialist side and our side are praised (see "The Hurt Locker"). I say "imperialist side and our side", because the colonized have neither the capital to produce films nor the interest of the denizens of the imperialist powers.

Dermezel
13th March 2010, 10:25
I think most got the message of anti-imperialism from the movie:

<li class="g">Bookworm Room » Is Avatar just another anti-imperialist film with ... (http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/11/11/is-avatar-just-another-anti-imperialist-film-with-fancy-special-effects/comment-page-1/)

Nov 11, 2009 ... Bookworm Room Conservatives deal with facts and reach conclusions; liberals have conclusions and sell them as facts.
www.bookwormroom.com/...avatar...anti-imperialist.../comment-page-1/ - Cached (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:BAAewa8yq0kJ:www.bookwormroom.com/2009/11/11/is-avatar-just-another-anti-imperialist-film-with-fancy-special-effects/comment-page-1/+avatar+anti-imperialist&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
<li class="g" style="margin-left: 3em;">Bookworm Room » Is Avatar just another anti-imperialist film with ... (http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/11/11/is-avatar-just-another-anti-imperialist-film-with-fancy-special-effects/)

Nov 11, 2009 ... 60 Responses to “Is Avatar just another anti-imperialist film with fancy special effects? *UPDATED*”. on 11 Nov 2009 at 4:11 pm 1 Charles ...
www.bookwormroom.com/.../is-avatar-just-another-anti-imperialist-film-with-fancy-special-effects/ - Cached (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:0bMo_D-Z6REJ:www.bookwormroom.com/2009/11/11/is-avatar-just-another-anti-imperialist-film-with-fancy-special-effects/+avatar+anti-imperialist&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
<li class="g">Avatar: the most expensive piece of anti-American propaganda ever ... (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100020721/avatar-the-most-expensive-piece-of-anti-american-propaganda-ever-made/)

Avatar is anti-imperialism not anti American. Most American people are not imperialistic. tstar29 on Dec 29th, 2009 at 12:32 am. Report comment ...
blogs.telegraph.co.uk › News (http://www.google.com/url?url=http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/&rct=j&ei=2GebS7vANYGeswPS6o2uAQ&sa=X&oi=breadcrumbs&resnum=3&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CAsQ6QUoAA&q=avatar+anti-imperialist&usg=AFQjCNHaX6tvz09j7sTIQsUrp7zPXijsGg) › World (http://www.google.com/url?url=http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/category/world/&rct=j&ei=2GebS7vANYGeswPS6o2uAQ&sa=X&oi=breadcrumbs&resnum=3&ct=result&cd=2&ved=0CAwQ6QUoAQ&q=avatar+anti-imperialist&usg=AFQjCNFjP7QLLkZdDy-NB7rynf5asql4Vw) › Nile Gardiner (http://www.google.com/url?url=http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/author/nilegardiner/&rct=j&ei=2GebS7vANYGeswPS6o2uAQ&sa=X&oi=breadcrumbs&resnum=3&ct=result&cd=3&ved=0CA0Q6QUoAg&q=avatar+anti-imperialist&usg=AFQjCNH-2nrq6IHrGIM4gY0RHOZHKDHCkQ) - Cached (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:VxCAt5zIkaoJ:blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100020721/avatar-the-most-expensive-piece-of-anti-american-propaganda-ever-made/+avatar+anti-imperialist&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
<li class="g">Green Left - Review: Avatar: Anti-imperialism in 3D (http://www.greenleft.org.au/2010/823/42318)

Avatar: Anti-imperialism in 3D. Nagesh Rao. 22 January 2010. Avatar is a visually stunning marvel of film technology, as many reviewers will tell you. ...
www.greenleft.org.au/2010/823/42318 - Cached (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:6oJ6RsuaP3UJ:www.greenleft.org.au/2010/823/42318+avatar+anti-imperialist&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
<li class="g">Anti-imperialism in 3-D | SocialistWorker.org (http://socialistworker.org/2010/01/07/anti-imperialism-in-3D)

Jan 7, 2010 ... Anti-imperialism in 3-D. There is much more to Avatar than the spectacular special effects, says Nagesh Rao. January 7, 2010 ...
socialistworker.org/2010/01/07/anti-imperialism-in-3D - Cached (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:MohhRk4V_ggJ:socialistworker.org/2010/01/07/anti-imperialism-in-3D+avatar+anti-imperialist&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
<li class="g">Editorial Observer - Next-Generation 3-D Medium of 'Avatar ... (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/26/opinion/26sat4.html)

Dec 26, 2009 ... In the James Cameron blockbuster “Avatar,” 3-D cinematography is the ... The plot is firmly in the anti-imperialist canon, a 22nd-century ...
www.nytimes.com/2009/12/26/opinion/26sat4.html
<li class="g">Arabdemocracy: 'Avatar': An Anti-Imperialist Epic? (http://www.arabdemocracy.com/2010/02/avatar-anti-imperialist-epic.html)

Feb 8, 2010 ... 'Avatar': An Anti-Imperialist Epic? By Joseph El-Khoury. The bad habit of carpet bombing: Apocalypse Now 1979. Avatar starts on a depressing ...
www.arabdemocracy.com/2010/02/avatar-anti-imperialist-epic.html - Cached (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:ImJpdjiFj7oJ:www.arabdemocracy.com/2010/02/avatar-anti-imperialist-epic.html+avatar+anti-imperialist&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
<li class="g">Links: Avatar Racist? Anti-Imperialist? | Ernesto Aguilar (http://ernestoaguilar.org/avatar-racist-anti-imperialist/)

James Cameron's film Avatar has had the blogosphere talking about race and imagery in film. Is Avatar a racist tale or an anti-imperialist parable?
ernestoaguilar.org/avatar-racist-anti-imperialist/ - Cached (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:T2OdoqvqAQsJ:ernestoaguilar.org/avatar-racist-anti-imperialist/+avatar+anti-imperialist&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
<li class="g">[A-List] FW: Avatar's anti-imperialism (http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/a-list/2009-December/078496.html)

[A-List] FW: Avatar's anti-imperialism. Nadja Tesich nadjatesich at hotmail.com. Sun Dec 27 14:25:02 MST 2009. Previous message: [A-List] Avatar's anti- ...
lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/a-list/2009-December/078496.html - Cached (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:COvh9d4XsY0J:lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/a-list/2009-December/078496.html+avatar+anti-imperialist&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
<li class="g">OpEdNews - Article: AVATAR (2009): Anti-Imperialism Sells (http://www.opednews.com/articles/AVATAR-2009--Anti-Imperi-by-Joe-Giambrone-100113-404.html)

Jan 13, 2010 ... Anti-imperialism is the underlying theme of Avatar, the biggest box office hit in world history.
www.opednews.com/.../AVATAR-2009--Anti-Imperi-by-Joe-Giambrone-100113-404.html - Cached (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:QRMxSTBikp0J:www.opednews.com/articles/AVATAR-2009--Anti-Imperi-by-Joe-Giambrone-100113-404.html+avatar+anti-imperialist&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

Dermezel
13th March 2010, 10:27
Also: http://www.socialistappeal.org/content/view/813/67/


As I was sitting in my seat I came an hour early to get, sporting my Buddy Holly inspired 3-D glasses, I distinctly remember looking around and saying “wow.” But it wasn’t a wow in the way we sarcastically overuse the word, it was an actual “wow.” I really did feel “excitement, interest, and great pleasure,” just like the dictionary said I should. Arrows were whizzing past my head; dragon-like creatures were encircling the most modern human-made flying machines; massive wild beasts were attacking mercenaries who were armed and armored to the teeth; it was, as a friend would later say, an intense summation of the many historical examples of conquerors being defeated by those who were to be conquered. I couldn’t help but be moved.

I’m referring, of course, to James Cameron’s Avatar. More specifically, the scene in which the local population, the Na’vi, drive the invaders, corporate America and their mercenaries, off their planet. Avatar is a smashing success, so far grossing over one billion dollars worldwide. Never before in history has such an uncompromisingly anti-imperialist message been delivered to so many people across so many parts of the world.

The story follows a paralyzed former Marine who goes from being an insider for the invaders to a leader of the invaded. That shift in consciousness, shared by several characters, was key to the plot, although it has not been commented on by most who have reviewed the film. We have a group of people who essentially become traitors. A scientist picks up a gun and attacks his corporate bosses. A mercenary hijacks her helicopter, paints it in rebel colors, and attacks her commanding officers. We can see these shifts develop from the beginning and they add an interesting layer to a plot that some have criticized for being “too simple.” Far from simple, the world Cameron creates is surreal. The plot allows you to become enveloped in this world without getting lost in flashbacks, artsy camera angles, and numerous other temptations that no doubt arose.

The success at the box office has not gone without notice. The usual defenders of imperialism have been quite critical. This is no surprise as they have yet to learn the simple lesson history has tried to teach them time and time again. Succinctly put, if you attempt to dominate a people’s land and resources, no matter what sort of guise you put on your efforts, you will be met with resistance. These folks are still waiting for the people of Iraq to greet them with flowers.

On the other hand, some left-leaning commentators have also had issues with the film. Much like children passing naughty notes across a classroom, they have been on a mission to shock each other by upping their criticisms with each review. According to them, Avatar is racist, sexist, etc. Sure, there are weaknesses in the film. But thankfully, their sectarian scribbles are lost on the general public, who connect with the core issues raised in the film, and the theaters continue to sell out.

When everything is said and done, Avatar has a good chance at being the top grossing movie of all time (it is already number two, behind Titanic, another, much worse, Cameron film). That would mean a movie promoting desertion and armed resistance against a corporate run military establishment is the most popular film of all time. I think that is pretty damn cool.

Anyways Zizen is a Freudian and a Stalinist. Sounds like a pseudoscientist to me.

Invincible Summer
13th March 2010, 21:16
That Socialist Appeal article is calling the more critical comments on Avatar "sectarian?" Okay... ???

It seems to be defending Avatar simply on the fact that "It's cool cuz ppl rebelled and it made lots of money."


Although I was sort of eyes-glazed-over for some of Zizek's critique, I really really liked his point that when actual rebellions take place, people don't support them, but will pay to watch a rebellion on a big screen.

Dermezel
14th March 2010, 04:46
That Socialist Appeal article is calling the more critical comments on Avatar "sectarian?" Okay... ???

It seems to be defending Avatar simply on the fact that "It's cool cuz ppl rebelled and it made lots of money."


Although I was sort of eyes-glazed-over for some of Zizek's critique, I really really liked his point that when actual rebellions take place, people don't support them, but will pay to watch a rebellion on a big screen.

That's kind of a regressive/right-wing stance on the issue that presumes the proletariat already have the power but just refuse to use it. He knows damn well they lack both resources and class consciousness, and that the bourgeoisie actively prevents them from acquiring resources of class consciousness.

It is akin to blaming slaves in the Colonial period for supporting a story of rebellion (even, gasp, paying money to see/read it) or peasants for doing likewise. If they could, they would, and I wouldn't criticize them or call them racist for it.

For some people it is all they can do to keep morale. And such cultural mechanisms can help expand class consciousness even if they are imperfect because they are progressive relative to the other fiction being churned out.

Likewise Zizek fails to mention the fact that unlike other ethnocentric films like The Dark Knight or The Hurt Locker, Avatar has done very well in the international markets (in fact most of its revenues are international) . Most US films only do well in the domestic market.

khad
14th March 2010, 05:01
That Socialist Appeal article is calling the more critical comments on Avatar "sectarian?" Okay... ???

It seems to be defending Avatar simply on the fact that "It's cool cuz ppl rebelled and it made lots of money."


Avatar has done very well in the international markets (in fact most of its revenues are international) . Most US films only do well in the domestic market.
http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Thinking/thinking-018.gif

x359594
16th March 2010, 01:23
...Zizek fails to mention the fact that unlike other ethnocentric films like The Dark Knight or The Hurt Locker, Avatar has done very well in the international markets (in fact most of its revenues are international) . Most US films only do well in the domestic market.

Of course The Dark Knight was a huge international hit.

As for most US films only doing well in the domestic market (and I presume you mean Hollywood product and not independent and a-g pictures made in the US), that's true, but it's only Hollywood features that break-out to do well overseas. Not even a Jacky Chan feature has been able to capture the international market the way a Hollywood movie has done.

Returning to Avatar, there's the aesthetic question to consider. Here the movie has a cinematic style that's the equivalent of low grade pop novel prose. That's its principal drawback for me.

Sendo
18th March 2010, 15:11
Of course The Dark Knight was a huge international hit.

As for most US films only doing well in the domestic market (and I presume you mean Hollywood product and not independent and a-g pictures made in the US), that's true, but it's only Hollywood features that break-out to do well overseas. Not even a Jacky Chan feature has been able to capture the international market the way a Hollywood movie has done.

Returning to Avatar, there's the aesthetic question to consider. Here the movie has a cinematic style that's the equivalent of low grade pop novel prose. That's its principal drawback for me.

Not exactly. Japan, South Korea, China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong can have movies and TV shows which become region-wide blockbusters. This cna sometiems engulf all of East Asia. In the Philippines there were equal parts Pinoy, East Asian, and Western culture.

A lot of non-US movies will even become international successes, and yes it's rarer than Hollywood's, but usually the US will be the one country to miss out too.

RED DAVE
18th March 2010, 17:03
Why is it that even when I largely agree with Zizek, he pisses me off. Does the man even understand the concept of self-criticism?

RED DAVE

x359594
18th March 2010, 23:03
...Does the man even understand the concept of self-criticism?

Not by the evidence so far. In everything that I've read by him I find something insightful and something disagreeable if not downright idiotic. Still, I continue to read Zizek with interest.

CartCollector
19th March 2010, 04:41
I've always noticed how in movies and TV people seem to love the "rebel" character, but when groups actually rebel in real life, people are like "Wtf are you doing?"

I guess people have problems associating groups like the Naxalites or EZLN with the Rebel Alliance because it actually challenges their values.
It extends beyond movies and TV. Take a look at the hugely successful Obey line of products by Shepard Fairey. Most, if not all, of it is based off of 20th century propaganda posters. Some of it is directly copied from those posters. The message is stripped out and the worthless propaganda-looking husk is sold to mindless teenagers who think it's "cool." The phrase I've heard to describe this is "revolutionary chic," but I think it's better summed up by the phrase "Disney World propaganda"- the style is there, and it sells well and makes money, but it lacks any substance beyond getting people to buy. Just like the elaborate scenery at Disney World.

bricolage
19th March 2010, 16:52
Anyways Zizen is a Freudian and a Stalinist. Sounds like a pseudoscientist to me.

In what way is Zizek a Stalinist?

Dermezel
22nd March 2010, 17:53
In what way is Zizek a Stalinist?

Apparently the media thinks he is Stalinist because he notes that Stalinism is not nearly as evil as Nazism. So a lot of BS rumors are floating around which I was taken in by.

In any case, I like Avatar because:

1- It is pro-technology. The "marine" Jake uses high-technology to overcome his limitations.

2- It is pro-environmentalist. Just like how socialists are the truest environmentalists.

3- It is integrationist. Some humans were allowed to stay with the natives depending on what side they chose.

4- It is anti-imperialist. And most importantly shows itself as such in an uncompromising manner. This is extremely important for the morale of the proletariat in an era where progressive, anti-imperialist films are almost non-existent.

5- It is not racist, so much as pro-tribal. This comes not from condemning but overemphasizing tribal people and their Darwinian nature.

In fact Jared Diamond argues convincingly that hunter-gatherer civilizations are on average more intelligent then farming based. This is because their leading cause of death is murder, (death from murder/warfare rates get as high as 30% in some super-violent tribes, whereas it is less then .5% for modern nation states) and because they have a better diet. They also live longer healthier lives then any agrarian society on average until well until the period of an industrial revolution, and they live a relatively egalitarian life.

Avatar also has an internationalist appeal as people world wide can relate to it, seeing as most people in the world have had to struggle against colonialism.

khad
22nd March 2010, 19:52
In fact Jared Diamond argues convincingly that hunter-gatherer civilizations are on average more intelligent then farming based. This is because their leading cause of death is murder, (death from murder/warfare rates get as high as 30% in some super-violent tribes, whereas it is less then .5% for modern nation states) and because they have a better diet. They also live longer healthier lives then any agrarian society on average until well until the period of an industrial revolution, and they live a relatively egalitarian life.
Jared Diamond's sociobiology is based on racist and flawed anthropology implicitly backed by neocolonial multinational corporations. It is an OI which has been documented extensively and debunked by leftwing sources.

http://www.stinkyjournalism.org/latest-journalism-news-updates-165.php
http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2009/05/12/jared-diamond-the-new-yorker-magazine-and-blood-feuds-in-png-conclusion/

bricolage
22nd March 2010, 21:05
1- It is pro-technology. The "marine" Jake uses high-technology to overcome his limitations.
Technology is also used extensively to butcher the native population on the planet, ironically they are defeated by animals and bows and arrow. I don't think 'pro-technology' is in itself a necessarily good thing anyway.


4- It is anti-imperialist. And most importantly shows itself as such in an uncompromising manner. This is extremely important for the morale of the proletariat in an era where progressive, anti-imperialist films are almost non-existent.
It also relies on a white guy leading the anti-imperialist struggle, I admit it is nice that they win in the end but at the same time it is still saying 'you can win, but only if we help you win', there is no attempt to assert the agency of the subaltern only their need to be lead.


5- It is not racist, so much as pro-tribal. This comes not from condemning but overemphasizing tribal people and their Darwinian nature.
It's very Orientalist in this way, othering the non-humans and presenting them as inherently good. It's a weak sweeping generalisation that many people still apply to the non-Western world today.

Additionally struggles against colonialism still continue today and the problem is that Avatar by presenting the oppressed a glorified 'good' group presents an unrealistic ideal by which to measure real struggles. Not only would they not be supported by James Cameron and his like anyway but seeing as they aren't living in a tree and shit it's another reason to not do so.

Psy
22nd March 2010, 21:26
Technology is also used extensively to butcher the native population on the planet, ironically they are defeated by animals and bows and arrow. I don't think 'pro-technology' is in itself a necessarily good thing anyway.

It also does not show the proletariat linked to technological production (industry). It would have been possible since the whole point the imperialist humans care about the plant is to extract resources that would mean industrial workers, thus we get a imperial struggle over industrial production without talking about industrial workers.

M-26-7
30th June 2010, 16:08
I thought this was interesting:


He opens a copy of Living in the End Times, and finds the contents page. "I will tell you the truth now," he says, pointing to the first chapter, then the second. "Bullshit. Some more bullshit. Blah, blah, blah." He flicks furiously through the pages. "Chapter 3, where I try to read Marx anew, is maybe OK. I like this part where I analyse Kafka's last story and here where I use the community of outcasts in the TV series Heroes as a model for the communist collective. But, this section, the Architectural Parallax, this is pure bluff. Also the part where I analyse Avatar, the movie, that is also pure bluff. When I wrote it, I had not even seen the film, but I am a good Hegelian. If you have a good theory, forget about the reality."

Apparently I am unable to post links, but this is from an interview with Zizek that was published in The Observer section of The Guardian newspaper on Sunday 27 June 2010.

Foldered
30th June 2010, 19:24
I thought this was interesting:



Apparently I am unable to post links, but this is from an interview with Zizek that was published in The Observer section of The Guardian newspaper on Sunday 27 June 2010.
So he did it for the lulz. Žižek, my man, you've done it again!

Seriously though, I think it's funny.

M-26-7
30th June 2010, 21:43
Whatever else he is, he is always entertaining. The entire Guardian interview is worth reading.

Foldered
30th June 2010, 23:47
Whatever else he is, he is always entertaining. The entire Guardian interview is worth reading.
Definitely. I find him intellectually stimulating sometimes (other times not), but yes, he is, in the least, entertaining.

Deny
2nd July 2010, 21:24
My favorite thing about Zizek is that he admits that the reason he publishes so many books, does so many interviews, etc., and generally repeats himself all the time is that he's literally afraid to stop producing material. If a movie goes un-psychoanalyzed, then he'll disappear!

And I agree that what he's saying isn't always that fantastic, but I still feel like I need to keep up with everything he puts out. & my personality and his are pretty similar, like when he sees video of himself and says "oh god I hate that face, but as I was saying [ramble....]". :cool: