The invention of writing in the Eastern Hemispher

[MarxSchmarx]

Writing systems are believed to have arisen independently three times: In the Mid East, in the Yucatan (Maya, possibly earlier), and in the Yellow River valley (China).

However, there is much debate about whether or not Chinese and Middle Eastern writings arose independently or whether one was inspired by the other. The argument goes that a surprisingly great deal of technology was exchanged between the two cultures, and the timing of writing being invented coincides with technological transfers in things like, for example, domesticated animals, the wheel, possibly currency, and crops. Moreover, given how fluid writing systems are and were in Eurasia (Manchurian, for example, uses an Arabic derived script), it seems quite natural that this invention would spread if it has a common origin. Moreover, the writings that exist from the earliest period in both China and the middle east appear to be arrangements of series of strokes.

HOWEVER, there is no direct evidence linking the two. Absent such evidence, the parsimonious account is that writing arose independently in the two cultures.

Finally, there is the Indus writing system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_script This is one for which there seems to be a real debate about whether it originated independently. But what sort of evidence do you all think counts for something like this?

So, what do comrades think? Was writing independently invented in China, the Indus valley, and the MIddle East, or did one or the other invent it first?

[Dimentio]

There are actually evidence that writing existed one thousand years before the pharaohs in Egypt, and several hundred years before the writing systems in Sumer. The main reason that the Sumerian theory is paraded as the most plausible one, is/was that European explorers in the 19th century were unwilling to admit that Africa could generate advanced cultures independently. They even claimed that Egypt had been founded by Sumerian exiles, a claim which recently has been debunked by the fact that advanced city-states existed in the Nile Valley millennia before Egypt became a unified monarchy.

[RED DAVE]

There are actually evidence that writing existed one thousand years before the pharaohs in Egypt, and several hundred years before the writing systems in Sumer. The main reason that the Sumerian theory is paraded as the most plausible one, is/was that European explorers in the 19th century were unwilling to admit that Africa could generate advanced cultures independently. They even claimed that Egypt had been founded by Sumerian exiles, a claim which recently has been debunked by the fact that advanced city-states existed in the Nile Valley millennia before Egypt became a unified monarchy.Could you post a link?

RED DAVE

[MarxSchmarx]

There are actually evidence that writing existed one thousand years before the pharaohs in Egypt, and several hundred years before the writing systems in Sumer. The main reason that the Sumerian theory is paraded as the most plausible one, is/was that European explorers in the 19th century were unwilling to admit that Africa could generate advanced cultures independently.

From what you said, it seems likely that if anything sumer copied what was of the nile valley. Do you know if anyone has advanced this point? ronically enough,n re:

In re: many of the prejudices you note, Dimentio, it's worth noting that also, the Sumerians of 3000 years ago were no more "european" than the people of the nile valley were "middle eastern".

[RedStarOverChina]

The earliest discovered Chinese script, the "Oracle script" was already well-established and looked as if it's been there for quite some time.

However, there has been no indications of written language prior to Oracle script in the region.

[A.R.Amistad]

One of my favorite examples of societies in History is the Haudenosaunee Confederation, which was very much an example of a socialist society. They were of course very "civilised" even by western standards and dogmas, they rarely endured famine or lack of resources and were connected throughout the American continents through various trade with other nations, yet they never saw the need for a written language. Why is it that some great cultures don't adopt a written language at all?

[Kléber]

There are many other less-known independent alphabets that people don't talk about much, like the undeciphered Linear A and B, and Rongorongo (which nobody will probably ever be able to read :(). Also, there are disputed scripts that may or may not have been widely used like the Vinča symbols and there are strange forms of inscriptions similar to some Inca artifacts that nobody has been able to decipher but some have argued is an actual language, although most people think that the only Inca "writing" system was a system of colored strings tied to sticks.

IIRC, the Sumerian script changed a lot in the same period as the development of Egyptian writing, and became more defined. However, from what I know, and just from looking at its beautiful simplicity, the Sumerian script seems to have started out on its own, as simple manner of trade accounting through ticks and wedges, then eventually developed into a full-on language.

Also, the Phoenician script basically grew out of Egyptian hieroglyphics, using preexisting hieroglyphic ideograms to represent proto-Sinaitic sounds, in a manner similar to how Japanese monks modified elements of Chinese pictographic script and slowly turned them into a more suitable syllabic language for themselves.

There were a great number of independent alphabets invented by kings and/or small governments in the 1800's or 1900's, similar to the way in which the Korean Hangul script was created by royal decree, but few of them have been that successful.

A.R.Amistad: Scripts have basically arisen as historical oddities, coming out of the activities of traders or priests, then spreading to wider use as the society developed. While there were trade links running up and down the Americas, I don't believe that the Iroquois trade economy was developed enough to have a merchant class needing to categorize all its activities nor had they developed a substantial slave-owning class of priests. That said, Sumeria and China weren't very developed 3000+ years ago either, so I guess they got historically un/lucky.

[Dimentio]

From what you said, it seems likely that if anything sumer copied what was of the nile valley. Do you know if anyone has advanced this point? ronically enough,n re:

In re: many of the prejudices you note, Dimentio, it's worth noting that also, the Sumerians of 3000 years ago were no more "european" than the people of the nile valley were "middle eastern".

http://www.hierakonpolis.org/