Greeks vs Riot Police, Coopted Union Boss, Austerity Legislation

[cyu]

Excerpts from http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/2010/03/06/206-how-to-take-out-a-riot-police-unit-a-play-in-10-acts/

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Excerpts from http://libcom.org/news/long-battles-erupt-athens-protest-march-05032010

All was quiet until the GSEE union boss Mr Panagopoulos took the microphone to address the protest. Before managing to utter more than five words, the hated union boss was attacked by all kinds of protestors who first heckled him and threw bottles of water and yogurt on his face and then attacked him physically like a giant swarm... the PASOK lackey struggled his way towards police lines... Finally he managed to hide behind the Presidential Guard and up the steps of the Parliament where the hated austerity measures were being voted. The crowd below encouraged him to go where he belongs, to the lair of thieves, murderers and liars.

This is the first time such a high ranking union boss is attacked at a rally that its union has called, and the act is widely believed to mark a new era in union history in greece.

During the clashes many riot shields and helmets were taken from the cops and burned along with other flaming barricades on the streets.

Further down on the way to Omonoia, protesters attacked a riot police squad that was guarding the National Legal Council. The riot police squad was cornered and attacked by means of sticks rocks and flares, before being forced to retreat inside the building

the workers of the National Printing Units have occupied the premises and refuse to print the legislation imposing the austerity measures.

[StalinFanboy]

So fucking sick.

[vyborg]

attcking the leader of the unions..what a gift to reformists..we saw it in Italy in 1977...not a way to convince union rank and file to change politics

[Delenda Carthago]

vyborg,first of all you dont have a fuckin clue of whats goin on here and whats the peoples idea about GSEE.

second of all,be greatful for 77.here in greece we are.

[cyu]

During clashes, riot police sprayed tear gas directly into the face of Manolis Glezos, the now aged hero of the Greek resistance and active member of the Left in Greece. The elderly man was trying to help a man from being arrested. He has been hospitalised in serious condition.

More at http://garizo.blogspot.com/2010/03/blog-post_5605.html

On May 30, 1941, he and Apostolos Santas climbed on the Acropolis and tore down the Swastika, which had been there since April 27, 1941, when the Nazi forces had entered Athens. That was the first act of resistance that took place in Greece, likely among the very first in Europe. It inspired not only Greeks, but all subjected people, to resist the occupation, and established them internationally as anti-Nazi heroes. The Nazi regime responded by sentencing Glezos and Santas to death in absentia.

Glezos was arrested by German occupation forces on March 24, 1942, and was subjected to imprisonment and torture. As a result of this treatment, he was gravely affected by tuberculosis. He was arrested on April 21, 1943 by the Italian occupation forces and spent three months in jail. In February 7, 1944 he was arrested again, this time by Greek Nazi collaborators. He spent another seven and a half months in jail, until he finally escaped on September 21 of the same year.

[vyborg]

vyborg,first of all you dont have a fuckin clue of whats goin on here and whats the peoples idea about GSEE.

second of all,be greatful for 77.here in greece we are.

all very tipical and all very chldish. phone me when you will be able to call a general strike as GSEE does.

As for 77 in Italy it meant the end of a revolutionary decade, the end of hopes of social changes...the return of the control of reformists and stalinist on the movement...

[FSL]

all very tipical and all very chldish. phone me when you will be able to call a general strike as GSEE does.

As for 77 in Italy it meant the end of a revolutionary decade, the end of hopes of social changes...the return of the control of reformists and stalinist on the movement...


You think GSEE is not controlled by reformists now? It' actually controlled by capital.

Having some people hit him isn't the best of actions (for the reasons individual terrorism isn't as well) but saying that he doesn't deserve that or even more is being insane.

[El Rojo]

this is fucking awesome. the greeksare an inspiration to us all. and the fact that the unionised printers wont print the legislation! case in point of worker's power

[Wanted Man]

all very tipical and all very chldish. phone me when you will be able to call a general strike as GSEE does.

The GSEE are, of course, not the only militant workers in Greece. Especially when you talk about their leadership. Wasn't there another general strike a few months ago where they called on workers to go back to work? After all, workers shouldn't do anything to hurt the "socialist" government. :rolleyes:

That's not to say that attacking those leaders (or occupying their offices, as happened in Dec. 2008) is commendable, but the fact that it happens shows just how many people are tired of getting "represented" by these guys. These acts aren't committed by cops, fascists, or whatever, but by the base of these unions.

[vyborg]

GSEE is controlled by reformists that is by the agent of capitalists inside the workers movement. it is just the same everywhere.

Attacking its leaders is not "commendable"? on the contrary! it is a basic duty of every communist. the point is the a phisical assault is not the correct way to do it. it plays in the GSEE leaderhip hands..we must attack them politically!

[Omi]

Great pictures anyway. :cool:

[Delenda Carthago]

all very tipical and all very chldish. phone me when you will be able to call a general strike as GSEE does.

As for 77 in Italy it meant the end of a revolutionary decade, the end of hopes of social changes...the return of the control of reformists and stalinist on the movement...

workers autonomy movement was the greatest revolutionary movement of the second half of 20th century.Other than that,two guys from Greece,with a big variety in political views,tell you one thing.You can act like you know everything and keep insisting to your opinion,or you can simply admit that you have no idea what is going on over here.Its not a bad thing,noone knows everything you know!And let me tell you,the majority of people was not only pro that,they were excited about it.

[vyborg]

I see, so Greek "autonomia" will take over the official labour movement. They had the same illusion in Italya in the 70s, they were a lot stronger politically and in the streets thatn their greek pale imitations. They even succeded in defeating militarly the PCI and CGIL armed street stewardship, and believe me, this structure was very very tough. Still...they didnt succed in crashing reformism out from the labour movement.

It is not enough to be right if you dont win the masses.

[Delenda Carthago]

OK.I didnt wanted to lesser the conversation,but I will! :)

What better example do you have to propose instead of autonomia?What you other italian communists has conquered so far?Becoming reformists and ending up in a Pronti?What have you given the last 30 years that took the revolutionary process further than what the autonomia movement did?

[vyborg]

The argument of what you did is not serious as reformists and stalinist are by far stronger than autonomia. So i will speak of autonomia's ideas and methods.

Well in Italy Autonomia meant many things. They started as the most radical tendency inside many factories and they ended as second level terrorists. I wrote an article about the ideas of 1977 but it is in italian (if you read italian I give you the site).

Theoretically speaking, autonomia was and is simply wildly childish. In practice, they were only able to beat the other tendency in the streets. That was all.

I think most of autonomia militans are quite honest and radical, but as I said, this is not enough...

[Delenda Carthago]

First of all,would you mind telling me where do you stand politicaly?It would help me understand your opinions.Obviously you are not a stalinist or a reformist,by no means you are not with autonomia and judging by your stance on it,you are not an anarchist either.

I dont know italian unfortunetly,but I would like to hear a strong critic on autonomia.Not that I would change my mind easily,but to have some food for thought.

What do you mean "childish"?what does that mean?I dont know any political term like that.Do you mean they where not very organised?They trusted human creativity more than what you think they should?

And what do you mean "second grade terrorists"?In an era when cops were shooting at demostrations and writers like Bonanno where going to prison for writing a book,what was the alternative?

[Delenda Carthago]

BTW,just to end with the Panagopoulos thing cause,as you said,there is no big deal,i translate you the answers under a youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEjM6O-fDIA&NR=1

killboy010:the rage of the people.enough said.
tsiminiera:good old days of yogurt throwing.
Morningstar91:he should got beaten,not dirty.
ftou1000kaka(known consernative vlogger):it was not nice,but he got what he deserved.
darkman542:hahaha!he deserved it.
jigger0017:he got what he deserved.he and his partners in crime are to blame for the decadance of Greece.
dimitrakis199:i feel sorry for him.noooot!
petrionas:poor guy!!
chousiself :yogurt,water,coffee!Full treatment!



every video on youtube has comments like this.Not even 1 out of 10 where against that action against that son of a *****.GSEE is known to sell out specialy to PASOK the workers stuggles!

[vyborg]

First of all,would you mind telling me where do you stand politicaly?It would help me understand your opinions.Obviously you are not a stalinist or a reformist,by no means you are not with autonomia and judging by your stance on it,you are not an anarchist either.

I dont know italian unfortunetly,but I would like to hear a strong critic on autonomia.Not that I would change my mind easily,but to have some food for thought.

What do you mean "childish"?what does that mean?I dont know any political term like that.Do you mean they where not very organised?They trusted human creativity more than what you think they should?

And what do you mean "second grade terrorists"?In an era when cops were shooting at demostrations and writers like Bonanno where going to prison for writing a book,what was the alternative?

I consider myself a Marxist.

I will not speak about theoretical matters, for now, as it is a long story and I dont think autonomia militans are very interested in it anyway.

Why second grade terrorist? I'm not speaking about street fighting. In Italy in the 70s normal street fighting was left to the kids (I mean 13 14 years old boys) because the "adults" were doing more serious stuff (that is shooting police). We had hundreds of people heavily armed during the demos..and normally they were not interested in attacking the police but more eac other.

Anyway, there is a logic in reducing politics to a riot: the more effective you are the better. So why restrain yourself to clubs and helmets? go for real business! take a gun! many very talented and brave comrades in Italy had the illusion that they could overthrow the system simply shooting cops, fascists and MPs.
Some group became very effective in this (BR etc.) other were more amateurs. They were not isolated lunatic, they had a wide support in sime layer of the class (normally the more backward).

After the defeat of 77s people were angry and mad. PCI and unions formed a wall that seemed invincible. So the easy way out was...starting to make fire...terrorist groups grew rapidly inside autonomia. We had terrorist group in every single town, sometimes in every single block of the country. normally brave, honest and determined people...to no avail.

Does all mean I'm against self defence on the streets? Of course not! We must be serious on that. If you are not able to defend your rally how can you defeat capitalism?

The problem is: I honestly ask you, comrades of autonomia in Greece, do you think a normal worker will be convinced to come to your side if you beat the leaders of GSEE? Workers are not pacifist, neither stupid, but this is not the way to convince them.

[cyu]

I honestly ask you, comrades of autonomia in Greece, do you think a normal worker will be convinced to come to your side if you beat the leaders of GSEE? Workers are not pacifist, neither stupid, but this is not the way to convince them.


Personally I think there are better tactics than bodily attacks on even corrupt officials, but you speak as if you assume that a "normal worker" is on the side of this union "leader". How can you tell? Have you polled all the non-capitalists in Greece? What if "normal workers" have already been convinced that most union "leaders" in the current capitalist system have been corrupted by capitalists?

[vyborg]

normal workers know that leaders are corrupt and inept! But this is not enough anyway.

Look, when in 1978 the BR in Italy killed Moro, even if the Communist Party, the Socialist Party and the unions trained their militants to explain this was very bad, a lot of ordinary workers were very happy. In Milan there was a strange episode: that night a group of workers were doing a rally for completely different reason. When the news was given, they started to sing, to laugh and to clap...
But the most experienced cadres said: we are fu**ed... because they understood what this meant in terms of political repression.

If you want the corrupt and inept leader pay to beat them up it is fruitless, even if a lot of people will enjoy this.

individual terrorism in its cruel or farcical form, is a counteproductive strategy