Convincing whites that racism is a problem

[Robocommie]

I just got finished having something of an argument/debate between some friends of mine. I should say that we're all Euro descended. Somehow the question of racism in America and racial inequality became the subject, and it was said by a couple that they felt that too many people, black people in particular, blame whites for their problems and use racism and slavery as a crutch to lean on. I told them this was a problematic viewpoint because the truth was, racism was still very much alive and well and that what they were saying was the typical argument used to dismiss the experiences of people of color. I said it was extremely unfair to just assume that the complaints of injustice and inequality by whites were simply whining or shifting responsibility, that that kind of attitude it itself an example of the institutionalized racism in society.

One friend of mine in particular insisted that prejudice would never be done away with entirely, but that he felt we were now all racially equal in America and that people who try and promote black interests in America were doing so at the expense of every other racial group - which is racist.

The thing is, I'm sure you've all heard these kinds of things before. These kinds of attitudes, based on ignorance, I feel, are very common among whites in America. I'm sure in other parts of the world, where the racial dynamic is different, similar kinds of things are said about other ethnic groups.

My question then (and I'd be especially interested to hear the perspective of people of color on this) is what can be done to address this? Is there a rational argument you can use, or is this something that can only be understood through empathy and experience? I feel this is one of the biggest hindrances towards addressing racial discrimination in the US, the extreme stubbornness of most whites to even acknowledge the fact that racism remains a serious problem!

[¿Que?]

...and it was said by a couple that they felt that too many people, black people in particular, blame whites for their problems and use racism and slavery as a crutch to lean on.

And what about white people that blame immigrants for their problems (read, "They took our jobs").

How would your friends explain the higher incarceration rates among blacks and latinos than whites for similar offenses.

How would they explain the lower pay minorities receive for similar work.

Lower rates of promotion.
Denial of loans controlling for socio-economic status.
The perpetuation of racist stereotypes in the media.
etc. etc.

There are hundreds if not thousands of studies documenting racism and the effects of racism. Many argue that the problem has become more complicated as few people these days are overtly racist. Many people may not even be aware of their racist behavior, and when a lot of people like this start acting in concert, we end up with systematic racism. These people may not intend to marginalize disadvantaged groups, but they do, and that's a fact.

If you go to school, I suggest you get on JSTOR or Sociological Abstracts, and do a search for "racism". You'll find plenty of material supporting the idea that racism occurs, even when people have no intention of being racist.

[Crusade]

Sorry, but nothing can be done about it. Anyone who understands will understand. I know that seems like a cold way of looking at it, but there's far too many reasons for people not to WANT to understand. For a lot of people it's a "burden". For some people acknowledging that racism is a problem would make them "guilty". For some, the very argument that racism is a problem is somehow a direct insult to them and their wondrous achievements in life. Also, it's a mistake to believe that the only reason people would want to preserve racism is out of hatred. A lot of people would prefer to preserve racism out of pride. No one wants to go from being superior to being "equal".

And actually it's not acknowledging RACISM that's really a problem, it's acknowledging WHITE racism that's a problem. If you asked the very same people you were debating with earlier about BLACK racism, I'm sure they'd admit it was a serious problem that needed addressing. Honestly, as a black person, I'd prefer to debate a white supremacist who knows there's racism and WANTS to keep it that way, than a white person who talks down to me as if I'm making all this shit up. Honestly WHY would I make it up? What good could possibly come from this? Nowadays a black person even SUGGESTING racism played a part in something would generate just as much, if not MORE hostility than actual racism. From experience, someone either has the personality to WANT to understand or they don't.

There's been an anti racist backlash recently as well. People are more upset over the intolerance of racism than racism itself. Then again this is just going by the very narrow experience I've had for 19 years so it's not as if I have supreme understanding of the moral capacity of mankind, I just have never seen someone successfully convince a white person who doesn't believe racism is a problem, that racism is a problem. There's too many ways and reasons to ignore and deny all evidence presented to you.

sorry for my wall of text :unsure:

[Le Libérer]

Not until African Americans have the same exact opportunities as whites will racism in the US be eracticated.

What really bothers me is, the media i (http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/30/end-of-racism-oped-cx_jm_1230mcwhorter.html)s playing it as just because Obama has been elected president, it somehow ended racism and doesnt need to be addressed as a social issue any longer. Even headlines like, "It's been a year since Obama ended Racism". (http://trueslant.com/eliemystal/2009/11/04/its-been-a-year-since-obama-ended-racism-in-america/) imo is lying to white America about the issues stated by agustin.

But then again, if ever there was instances of a liberal media, these two articles would be it, pretend the issues dont exist and they will go away.

[counterblast]

My question then (and I'd be especially interested to hear the perspective of people of color on this) is what can be done to address this? Is there a rational argument you can use, or is this something that can only be understood through empathy and experience? I feel this is one of the biggest hindrances towards addressing racial discrimination in the US, the extreme stubbornness of most whites to even acknowledge the fact that racism remains a serious problem!

http://i47.tinypic.com/wlp08n.gif

[counterblast]

And what happens to sam when he is released?

http://i45.tinypic.com/fx71gm.gif

[Physicist]

Semi-New user wanting to chime in with a spectacular quote dissection.
Many people may not even be aware of their racist behavior, In my experience very few white people nowadays view blacks or any other minority for that matter as inherently inferior. Oh, I've encountered the occasional clown who tries to summarize complicated historical dynamics as a lesser race being subdued by whites, but I would be more honest in saying that whites remain ignorant about their standing in class relations. Let's also not confuse discrimination with racism. In my youth I often selectively chose not to participate with white children since I didn't think we could share common culture, but I was not being racist. I'm sure the same applies the other way around.
A lot of people would prefer to preserve racism out of pride. No one wants to go from being superior to being "equal". I don't see this at all, and nowadays most of my friends ... and family.... are white. The biggest disagreement between whites and blacks is over all the subject of affirmative action, which I myself am torn over since I see how it has no effect on rich white folks.
And actually it's not acknowledging RACISM that's really a problem, it's acknowledging WHITE racism that's a problem. If you asked the very same people you were debating with earlier about BLACK racism, I'm sure they'd admit it was a serious problem that needed addressing. This I can see. Unfortunately, I think it's a problem of human will more than anything else. I've been lurking this forum for a week or so and I noticed that some users have been insisting that black racism or female sexism doesn't exist. That, I think, is blatantly incorrect.

[Crusade]

New user wanting to chime in with a spectacular quote dissection. In my experience very few white people nowadays view blacks or any other minority for that matter as inherently inferior. Oh, I've encountered the occasional clown who tries to summarize complicated historical dynamics as a lesser race being subdued by whites, but I would be more honest in saying that whites remain ignorant about their standing in class relations. Let's also not confuse discrimination with racism. In my youth I often selectively chose not to participate with white children since I didn't think we could share common culture, but I was not being racist. I'm sure the same applies the other way around.

That's the thing, I actually don't give half a crap about racism on a personal level. My issue is racism within the state(such as police, politicians), the drug war, the prison industrial complex, wage gap, class relations(hence my leftism), and to a lesser extent, media inconsistencies with race portrayal(like calling white men who fly planes into buildings "someone who committed criminal acts" instead of "terrorist" like they'd do an Arabic man, the looting vs finding thing, etc). But some group of white guys out in some far away land talking about how black people get on their nerves isn't a problem. It actually annoys me to no end when people act as if THAT's what anti racist people are focused on. A bunch of people saying some fucking words. :rolleyes: I'm not an anti white person, I mean some of my best friends are white.(:lol: I've always wanted to say that) Most whites aren't racist I'm aware, but there are systems in place that ARE racist and they just happen to be controlled by white people.

[Die Rote Fahne]

I live in Canada. In Newfoundland to be exact. A place where, as far as I know, had little to do with the slave trade. This is a place where today maybe only a couple hundred African-Canadians live. We have a population of 500 000 in a province which has an area almost twice of the UK.

My grandmother is 80 years old. She lived here all her life. She probably never seen a black person until her 20's or 30's when she and my grandfather travelled the US. She's white, married a white man. She's an Evangelical Christian conservative.

She supports reparations for blacks. Wrap your mind around that. That tripped me out when I found out.

She was never tolerant of racism or racial bigotry.

I would bet you any money she would argue that racism is still a problem in the US today as I would.

It's easy to see the racial bigotry. Not just against blacks, but Arabs, Latinos, etc. Just turn on the news, or listen to people talk.

[Y-Love]

If we're going to talk about racism vis-a-vis white people (black/Latino person here, just saying), we're going to have to talk about the fact that whiteness is almost never discussed as the racial construct it is.

Being white is somehow "normal" or "average" and everyone else is "ethnic". When looked at through such a lens, then the "ethnic" people are at the losing end of a dichotomy. "Ethnic" people get discriminated against "by white people." End of story, and that makes racism far more simple than it actually is.

Convincing whites that racism is a problem begins by showing just how pervasive it really is. Anti-white racism and anti-black racism are really both descendants of the same demon. As is intra-racial prejudice based on color and inter-ethnic prejudice. Race itself is a social construct -- and this impacts Euro-American people as much as anyone else.

Once I was hanging out with some of my friends at a bar who were white. They were having a side conversation, reminiscing about how they went to college together. One of them had decided at one point to drop out for a year and go traveling, and was talking about how his parents flipped out and about how he took it to heart because -- "you know, the whole 'white male superstar' thing, I had to achieve, it really got to me". As if, he couldn't screw up, he was a white male, what would he blame his failure on? What did he have holding him back? Just being white was contributing to his anxiety and this guilt over non-achievement. That's GOT to be harmful (what, just being white means one should feel they're just NOT ALLOWED to fail at anything in life?) and it's a byproduct of the same racism...

[Jimmie Higgins]

De-facto segregation is the main way that the ruling class is able to promote the myth that racism doesn't exist or that oppressed groups are to blame for their own oppression. Things like racial profiling and so on basically ensure that white people and people of color have different experiences in regards to racism.

I don't know if too much can be done about the people who buy into this myth right now. I think we really need to focus not on them but rallying the people (of all backgrounds) who recognize racism and building movements against oppression. It wasn't a series of debates and arguments that challenged racism in the 60s - it was actions against systemic racism that were specific and sharp that then led people to question the racist staus quo (both rural and working class blacks who thought that racism counldn't be challenged and whites who either didn't question racism in society or were ignorant of it).

Movements against neoliberal cuts to services (which always hit opressed groups harder - the shrinking of the numbers of people of color in the University of California system, for example, is shocking and a crime); movements against the racist prison system/police; movements against racist hiring practices; movements for immigrant rights; and any number of other injustices will take the mainstream debate about racism out of the abstract post-modern arguments that allows people like DeSouza or Michelle Malkin to argue that racism is relative or non-existent. When racism is concretely exposed in this way, it becomes harder for the Limbaughs and Becks to make ridiculous arguments about anti-white racism or a lack of racism towards people of color.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Convincing whites that racism is a problem begins by showing just how pervasive it really is. Anti-white racism and anti-black racism are really both descendants of the same demon. As is intra-racial prejudice based on color and inter-ethnic prejudice. Race itself is a social construct -- and this impacts Euro-American people as much as anyone else.Good point. In fact I think a more society-wide example is how racism by the ruling class is always directly attacking X group - but is also used as the sharp edge of the wedge to attack the whole working class.

Racist images of "welfare queens" were used by Democrats and Republicans to dismantle welfare - when more white people were welfare recipients than other groups. Racial profiling and racist media representations were used to attack young males (mostly black and Latino) and justify "tough on crime" initiatives, more prisons, mandatory-minimum sentencing, police in public schools - so while males of color got the worst of it, the prison system, courts, and cops, have caused all services to be cut, have cause California to go into debt, and have allowed the state to have a freer hand at repressing everyone. Racism was used to promote the wars after 9/11 and this has caused misery across the board for the working class. Racism against immigrants has made bosses better able to exploit immigrant workers, but it has also helped them push a race to the bottom in regards to wages for all workers. In fact the whole domestic neoliberal agenda in the US has employed racism to take protections and services away from all workers while also lowering living standards across the board.

It's like when people say if white america has a cold, black america has the plague... we plagues are fucking contagious aren't they!

So this is one way to explain to white people how racism - while attacking one group - is an attack on all workers. This is also why solidarity is so important.

[counterblast]

I've been lurking this forum for a week or so and I noticed that some users have been insisting that black racism or female sexism doesn't exist. That, I think, is blatantly incorrect.

Do you think "reverse classism" (ie despising and destroying the ruling class) exists?

Oh wait, thats communism.

How ironic; when poor white men hate those who oppress them its a respectable social movement; but when poor black/nonwhite people or womyn hate their oppressors its "prejudice".

[counterblast]

Good point. In fact I think a more society-wide example is how racism by the ruling class is always directly attacking X group - but is also used as the sharp edge of the wedge to attack the whole working class.

Why do communists always distance themselves from the problem, when it involves racism? Always relaying racism back to the "ruling class" is convenient, but at some point poor white people need to realize that they're to blame for perpetuating racism, too.

[Crusade]

Just being white was contributing to his anxiety and this guilt over non-achievement. That's GOT to be harmful (what, just being white means one should feel they're just NOT ALLOWED to fail at anything in life?) and it's a byproduct of the same racism...

Actually, I think whiteness gives you MORE room for failure than anything else. If a person of color does anything wrong it will be attributed to his race. As a black person if I screw up in any way I'm screwing up for every black person in the world. If I succeed, then my success is just for myself. If people see me do something amazing, no one will think to themselves, "Wow honey, black people are amazing", they'll think "that guy is amazing". If I screw up, however, they'll think "damn black people are always screwing up". Whiteness FOR THE MOST PART gives you the liberty to be an individual. If anyone didn't have the ability to fail it'd probably be Asians.

I'm not sure if you can even call that white "privilege", that's just being treated and judged normally. There's nothing "extra" there. And that's the good part.

[Physicist]

Do you think "reverse classism" (ie despising and destroying the ruling class) exists?

Oh wait, thats communism.

How ironic; when poor white men hate those who oppress them its a respectable social movement; but when poor black/nonwhite people or womyn hate their oppressors its "prejudice".

I don't really see the point of your tangent as I'm completely supportive of racial egalitarianism. Likewise I don't for a second believe "anti-white" racism is an institutional problem, but at the individual level it does exist in limited quantities.

As a (mostly) white person, the problem I see with bringing whites into the camp for racial advancement are twofold. Yes, the benefits of being white naturally make us less likely to find appeal in combative social justice efforts, but secondly - and I think this was purposely constructed - the relief efforts conducted thus far have no impact on bourgeoisie whites. It's a cyclical problem where urban reform and affirmative action are perceived as being (and likely are) programs operated by wealthy whites to determine what's best for working class blacks and whites. While some good intentions and results may arise from these designated platforms, at the same time they lose credibility when it's the Warren Buffets of the world instructing "Joe Sixpack" (ugh) on how to treat and deal with the issue of racism. The bourgeoisie should not be mediators between the races.

[hammer&sickle]

society.


My question then (and I'd be especially interested to hear the perspective of people of color on this) is what can be done to address this? Is there a rational argument you can use, or is this something that can only be understood through empathy and experience? I feel this is one of the biggest hindrances towards addressing racial discrimination in the US, the extreme stubbornness of most whites to even acknowledge the fact that racism remains a serious problem!

I'm new to this forum but I think I have something, as a person of color(as the op put it) to add to the discussion.

Racism hasn't existed for as long as it has without some material..economic basis. The ideology of racism is based on the super exploitation of black and brown peoples, the genocide of the Native American people and the subjugation of all colonial people of color. It is an ideology to justify slavery and colonial rule..super exploitation. White people..even working class white people have economically benefitted from this super exploitation. The white southern poor sharecropper existence was barely above the slave..sometime worse but they could own a black slave (if they could afford one) solely on the basis of the color of their skin. This institutional law in the south was one of the material bases for racism.

No matter how bad things got for whites, the condition of black and brown people were worse."Last hired and first fired" was and is the order of the day.

The call for unity of black and white workers will and cannot succeed based on theory..people rarely fight for theory..they fight for their stomachs..their pocketbooks. As long as priviledge based on race exists thereis no possibility for unity. However, we are witnessing today something unique in American history..EVERYONE is losing their jobs, the ruling class is attacking the working class en mass..even sections of the managerial class. Suddenly white workers too are finding themselves equal to black and brown workers..they are all unemployed. This will lay the material base for unity.

[Crusade]

However, we are witnessing today something unique in American history..EVERYONE is losing their jobs, the ruling class is attacking the working class en mass..even sections of the managerial class. Suddenly white workers too are finding themselves equal to black and brown workers..they are all unemployed. This will lay the material base for unity.

Good post, but the part I quoted largely depends on how they respond to it. Things could get a lot better or way, way worse. Scapegoating is the easiest way to get around this and it's worked so much before. For example, take poor white support for slavery. No poor white person could even think about affording a slave, but they still supported it. Even if SLAVE LABOR meant NO JOBS for them they still supported slavery. I'm not sure America could be won over at this point for true leftism. If this should happen, however, I think it'd mean victory for socialism worldwide.

I think assata shakur's quote applies here

"Only a fool lets somebody else tell him who his enemy is....never let your enemies choose your enemies for you."

[hammer&sickle]

Good post, but the part I quoted largely depends on how they respond to it. Things could get a lot better or way, way worse. Scapegoating is the easiest way to get around this and it's worked so much before. For example, take poor white support for slavery. No poor white person could even think about affording a slave, but they still supported it. Even if SLAVE LABOR meant NO JOBS for them they still supported slavery. I'm not sure America could be won over at this point for true leftism. If this should happen, however, I think it'd mean victory for socialism worldwide.

I think assata shakur's quote applies here

"Only a fool lets somebody else tell him who his enemy is....never let your enemies choose your enemies for you."

You are correct..scapegoating has worked in the past and as things get way way worse(as they will) the ruling class will try the race card. It may take a different form as black Americans are so integrated in society..the military, police. It might be very difficult to scapegoat black Americans. The attack on "illegal aliens"..mostly latino, is the new attack based on white supremacy.

White supremacy is so ingrained in American society that any fascist attack against the working class will undoubtedly be accompanied by racist ideology. However, the material base for white supremacy has been weakened. When workers of all colors and races stand next to each other on the unemployment line a real basis for unity exists. It is up to revolutionaries to realize this material base for unity and constantly agitate for class unity.

The conditions today are different than they were during the Civil war and Reconstruction. I'm not so sure that the majority of poor southern whites supported slavery. I believe that about 15% of southern white soilders deserted, the belief that the war was a rich man's war was one of the major reasons for desertion..General lee stated that the desertions was one of the major reasons for his defeat. The southern populists first started out against lynch laws and promised to "erase the color line" Hoever the rapidly expanding capitalist economy and the colonial subjugation of Cuba, Phillipines and Latin America gave the capitalist ruling class the ability to maintain white priveledge..they don't have this ability today.

[The Red Next Door]

I think most of them do this because they feel like whenever a person bring up the issue of racism, we are blaming them or accusing them. When it is not the case at all, Most people want to live in this silly fantasy world that, there is no racism and everyone is equal in American. They are people who just like to drink the kool aid of happiness.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Why do communists always distance themselves from the problem, when it involves racism? Always relaying racism back to the "ruling class" is convenient, but at some point poor white people need to realize that they're to blame for perpetuating racism, too.Excuse me? Do you know what the fuck I think? Do you know what experiences I've had? Or do you just see "communist" and make a bunch of shallow brain-dead assumptions based on that.

There are also plenty of working class and poor people who think that capitalism is great and that schools should be privatized etc... so do we blame them for these ideas or do we recognize the source of these ideas and try and fight them systemically? I don't know maybe you go and handout fliers that say: "worker, you are the problem, take responsibility for your bad and harmful ideas."

In the neighborhood where i grew up there were immigrants living next door to ex-cons with nazi tatoos who would fly the confederate flag on their porch on MLK day, so don't fucking tell me what I think about racism or that I don't know that poor white people can be racists. There are working class racists, sexists, homophobes - but the question is what it the root of the problem - do working class racists create redlining? Do they stop funding to schools, are they the ones making decisions to push "tough on crime" at the expense of public school and other institutions used by all working class people. Do poor white people create bank policy to deney loans to people of color - do they push crooked sub-prime morgatages on minority groups?

Poor white people created racism? Poor white people in the south wanted reading tests to vote so they could disenfranchise black people and THEMSELVES?

If you want to try and stop racism on an individual basis - each fucking racist at a time, go ahead and be a liberal because this is the liberal's solution. They see racism as a personal thing, not part of a system to keep us all down and this implies ridiculous things such as "reverse racism". After all, if racism comes from poor white who have little power in society, then equally racism could come from immigrants or poor black people:rolleyes:.

To say that I am distancing myself from the problem of racism when I have been involved in the fight against the death penalty in California, the fight to save Tookie Williams, I have put my body on the line protesting the Minutmen, neo-nazis, and was involved in the protests and organizing after cops murdered Oscar Grant in my neighborhood... is just plain bullshit.

Get your head out of your sectarian ass if you think I'm distancing myself from fighting racism.

[Il Medico]

One a similar note, I was talking to a liberal feminist and another liberal leaning girl in my Public speaking class about various things. The feminist mentioned she was planning on doing one of her speeches on the history of Feminism. Anyways, as the conversation progressed we got to talking about sexism today, which rather to my surprise, the non-feminist girl said that the Feminist Movement wasn't really necessary anymore because sexism isn't a big problem anymore. Before I could say anything, the feminist girl said something along the lines of "Yeah, but the Feminist movement need to stay alive to guard the equality we have gained". I the found myself the only one in the group arguing that sexism is still a huge problem in society that needs to be combated by word and action. I mean wtf?

[Le Libérer]

One a similar note, I was talking to a liberal feminist and another liberal leaning girl in my Public speaking class about various things. The feminist mentioned she was planning on doing one of her speeches on the history of Feminism. Anyways, as the conversation progressed we got to talking about sexism today, which rather to my surprise, the non-feminist girl said that the Feminist Movement wasn't really necessary anymore because sexism isn't a big problem anymore. Before I could say anything, the feminist girl said something along the lines of "Yeah, but the Feminist movement need to stay alive to guard the equality we have gained". I the found myself the only one in the group arguing that sexism is still a huge problem in society that needs to be combated by word and action. I mean wtf?
It is still a huge problem, and what pisses me off is the media projecting just the opposite.

For instance, The Economist ran an article a few months back, where they announced that The Women's Revolution had been won. Their premise was, because women make up 50% of what they called, "The Rich World's workforce" some sort of women's revolution had been won. Then they proceeded to detail all the issues that have risen in the past, and what to expect (problematic) in the future regarding this so called Women's Revolution."

For instance to quote the article
When brute strength mattered more than brains, men had an inherent advantage. Now that brainpower has triumphed the two sexes are more evenly matched. The feminisation of the workforce has been driven by the relentless rise of the service sector (where women can compete as well as men) and the equally relentless decline of manufacturing (where they could not). The landmark book in the rise of feminism was arguably not Ms Friedan’s “The Feminine Mystique” but Daniel Bell’s “The Coming of Post-Industrial Society”. One obvious problem that proves theres not equality amongst workers, is that womens promises by her male counterparts have yet to be fulfilled. Women have been encouraged to climb up the ladder only to discover that the middle management is dominated by men and the upper rungs are out of reach. Only 2% of the bosses are women.The typical full-time female worker earns only about 80% as much as the typical male.

So no, feminism has not met equality amongst workers. And dont let anyone tell you differently.

[Y-Love]

Actually, I think whiteness gives you MORE room for failure than anything else. If a person of color does anything wrong it will be attributed to his race.

As a black person if I screw up in any way I'm screwing up for every black person in the world. If I succeed, then my success is just for myself. If people see me do something amazing, no one will think to themselves, "Wow honey, black people are amazing", they'll think "that guy is amazing". If I screw up, however, they'll think "damn black people are always screwing up". Whiteness FOR THE MOST PART gives you the liberty to be an individual. If anyone didn't have the ability to fail it'd probably be Asians.

I'm not sure if you can even call that white "privilege", that's just being treated and judged normally. There's nothing "extra" there. And that's the good part.

BELIEVE ME, I see what you're saying, but think about this: outside of certain black communities (where "trying to be white" is thrown around with as much gravity as "adulterer" in 17th-century England), is there ever an assumption of black DUTY-BOUND ACHIEVEMENT?

I don't even know if such a thing exists in the Asian community (and if it did, it would obviously have to do with being "Chinese" or "Korean" or "from Bangkok" or something only we call people by continents :D). It's almost like the flipside of the defeatist "the man is keeping me down" attitude, it's like a kid being raised to think "i'm the man and therefore i've GOT to be in a position of power, so therefore, I've got to go to school X number of hours a day".

Were a minority kid to feel the same pressure, it would likely be more related to "my family needs me" or "i can't let my people down/look bad in front of X people", I think.

The social construct of "whiteness" IMO is not just this entry pass to this paradisical life for white people when it comes to racism. It has its own BS and burdens like anything else. Yes, there's white privilege, don't get me wrong, but I'm sure it's a give-and-take...

[Crusade]

BELIEVE ME, I see what you're saying, but think about this: outside of certain black communities (where "trying to be white" is thrown around with as much gravity as "adulterer" in 17th-century England), is there ever an assumption of black DUTY-BOUND ACHIEVEMENT?

I don't even know if such a thing exists in the Asian community (and if it did, it would obviously have to do with being "Chinese" or "Korean" or "from Bangkok" or something only we call people by continents :D). It's almost like the flipside of the defeatist "the man is keeping me down" attitude, it's like a kid being raised to think "i'm the man and therefore i've GOT to be in a position of power, so therefore, I've got to go to school X number of hours a day".

Were a minority kid to feel the same pressure, it would likely be more related to "my family needs me" or "i can't let my people down/look bad in front of X people", I think.

The social construct of "whiteness" IMO is not just this entry pass to this paradisical life for white people when it comes to racism. It has its own BS and burdens like anything else. Yes, there's white privilege, don't get me wrong, but I'm sure it's a give-and-take...


Reminds me of Tim Wise's speech on white privilege, actually.

Oh and there's duty bound achievement for blacks in physical activity. If you get a video of a black male losing to a white male in any physical activity it'll get a million views in less than 20 minutes. Wait I think that danced around your point. Hold I'll probably edit in a sec, my girl wants to complain about her friend for a couple years.

[Il Medico]

It is still a huge problem, and what pisses me off is the media projecting just the opposite.

For instance, The Economist ran an article a few months back, where they announced that The Women's Revolution had been won. Their premise was, because women make up 50% of what they called, "The Rich World's workforce" some sort of women's revolution had been won. Then they proceeded to detail all the issues that have risen in the past, and what to expect (problematic) in the future regarding this so called Women's Revolution."

For instance to quote the article One obvious problem that proves theres not equality amongst workers, is that womens promises by her male counterparts have yet to be fulfilled. Women have been encouraged to climb up the ladder only to discover that the middle management is dominated by men and the upper rungs are out of reach. Only 2% of the bosses are women.The typical full-time female worker earns only about 80% as much as the typical male.

So no, feminism has not met equality amongst workers. And dont let anyone tell you differently.
Indeed. It is the same for most cases. The common conception I find among other people of my generation is that sexism, racist, and to a smaller degree homophobia is nothing but a problem of the past. They seem to think because the past was so much worse that somehow that makes the oppression now not oppression at all. Just because the shackles are looser doesn't mean they're gone. Why this is so hard to get arcoss to most people is beyond me.

[Crux]

Indeed. It is the same for most cases. The common conception I find among other people of my generation is that sexism, racist, and to a smaller degree homophobia is nothing but a problem of the past. They seem to think because the past was so much worse that somehow that makes the oppression now not oppression at all. Just because the shackles are looser doesn't mean they're gone. Why this is so hard to get arcoss to most people is beyond me.
Tell me about it. I live in Sweden, so the myth of sweden being equal is quite prevalent in the "national consciousness" so to speak.

[Le Libérer]

Indeed. It is the same for most cases. The common conception I find among other people of my generation is that sexism, racist, and to a smaller degree homophobia is nothing but a problem of the past. They seem to think because the past was so much worse that somehow that makes the oppression now not oppression at all. Just because the shackles are looser doesn't mean they're gone. Why this is so hard to get arcoss to most people is beyond me.
Right. Good luck with that when you have the media dumbing them down.

Doctor, face it, its going to be up to you to agigate, inform and anger these young women so they dont fall victim to the lie. :)