Test to use blue?

[Dimentio]

It could sound a bit silly, but why not test to replace red tablecloth and banderolls with blue tablecloth and banderolls for one day, just to see if the public are reacting differently?

[Kuppo Shakur]

That does sound a bit silly. Although colors do have slight affects on people, I doubt that seeing a few communists wearing blue instead of red would actually cause any significant difference in people's first impressions of the idea. I mean, why not green, or orange? There are definitely much more important things to focus on when presenting communism.

[Dimentio]

That does sound a bit silly. Although colors do have slight affects on people, I doubt that seeing a few communists wearing blue instead of red would actually cause any significant difference in people's first impressions of the idea. I mean, why not green, or orange? There are definitely much more important things to focus on when presenting communism.

I think people today are attracted to such things which are looking neutral and sounding neutral.

[Meridian]

I think stuff like this does have an effect. Not so much the color blue itself, although that certainly does have an effect.

More the fact that using blue as a color representing radical leftism would be 1) surprising, fresh, new, radical? 2) taking a "motif" of capitalism and using it for own ends, 3) a turn from what many workers regard as "outdated", color of soviet, etc. 4) it's a nice color.

[Bandito]

I think people today are attracted to such things which are looking neutral and sounding neutral.
Revolution is not neutral, so, no point of behaving in a populist manner.

[Taikand]

I don't really like the idea of using blue just out of nowhere, if there is a mass of arguments for it, it's worth a try.

[Dimentio]

Revolution is not neutral, so, no point of behaving in a populist manner.

If people are attracted by a showcase of dancing pink elephants, get those elephants! :)

[Dr Mindbender]

I'm not sure blue would necessarily be better because people associate it with the right wing.

If we're going to test alternative colours why not go with day glow yellow?

[Dimentio]

I'm not sure blue would necessarily be better because people associate it with the right wing.

If we're going to test alternative colours why not go with day glow yellow?

That is maybe an idea. ^^

[Meridian]

I'm not sure blue would necessarily be better because people associate it with the right wing.

If we're going to test alternative colours why not go with day glow yellow?
I think people maybe miss the point that using blue is actually using the enemy's color. That can be a very potent tactic. I would love to for example see hammer and sickles on a blue background.

This reminds me of what coca-cola and so many other companies did with the whole red theme, and the red star everywhere. The point is that it disempowers any alternative political movement by redirecting the meaning of a symbol.

Additionally, in my opinion day glow yellow is rather unpleasing to the eye.

[Dermezel]

Use strong intimidating colors like Red and Black. Always a very scary color combination for the bourgeoisie. This is especially important if Communism is under constant siege by corporate culture. Gothic type architecture was created to build a siege mentality among the peasantry. It is always good to retain such as a part of our cultural identity- we are under siege- constantly.

[Dimentio]

Use strong intimidating colors like Red and Black. Always a very scary color combination for the bourgeoisie. This is especially important if Communism is under constant siege by corporate culture. Gothic type architecture was created to build a siege mentality among the peasantry. It is always good to retain such as a part of our cultural identity- we are under siege- constantly.

And after the revolution? Would we use white and green then?

[Dermezel]

And after the revolution? Would we use white and green then?

You use whatever you want then. Won't matter one way or another.

[An archist]

It's just a color, in fact last week, I was at an anti-fascist protest where a group of communists were wearing blue jackets.
http://www.dewereldmorgen.be/sites/default/files/imagecache/3col_nocrop/2010/03/05/3_1.jpg

[Tifosi]

If you are going to change colour's then go for something powerful. Red and Black are good colours as they are energetic, powerful and most importantly revolutionary. I don't see why we should remove these colours to make a few people happy. If people care about left-wing politics they won't care what colour the flag or symbol is, will they? If you are going to change the colours I would go for a Purple. Purple is still a powerful colour.


And after the revolution? Would we use white and green then?

Would we need colours for symbols after the revolution?


I think people maybe miss the point that using blue is actually using the enemy's color. That can be a very potent tactic. I would love to for example see hammer and sickles on a blue background.

The Nazi's did that, Hitler used Lenin's looks as a template for his look. They look very different but Hitler used Lenin as Lenin's look is iconic, as is Hitler's. The Nazi's also used red in their flags and banners.

[Dimentio]

The difference was that red was popular in those days in Europe. Today, its almost seen as a contagious warning signal (look up, we are radical). We should really strive to paint those in power as dangerous radicals, and we ourselves as the reasonable moderates.

[Tifosi]

The difference was that red was popular in those days in Europe. Today, its almost seen as a contagious warning signal (look up, we are radical). We should really strive to paint those in power as dangerous radicals, and we ourselves as the reasonable moderates.

Well Labour are in power in the UK and they use red a lot of the time.

[Dimentio]

Well Labour are in power in the UK and they use red a lot of the time.

They are also calling themselves "new labour" and always trying to move in on the middle.

[Tifosi]

They are also calling themselves "new labour" and always trying to move in on the middle.

Yes I know, but they still use the colour red, which this thread is about.

[Dr Mindbender]

actually, coca cola did not use red as their main colour for politcal reasons. The coca nuts and cola leaves that were used to make the recipe were orginally shipped in red barrels, hence the use of the colour red.

On a lighter note its also the origin of the design for Santa's clothes. ^_^

[Dr Mindbender]

actually, in 2001 the SWP had a pet project called 'Globalise Resistance' which used orange as its main color.

It wasnt a massive success.

[Meridian]

actually, coca cola did not use red as their main colour for politcal reasons. The coca nuts and cola leaves that were used to make the recipe were orginally shipped in red barrels, hence the use of the colour red.

On a lighter note its also the origin of the design for Santa's clothes. ^_^
Yeah, I didn't claim that they did it intentionally. Though, every designer and marketer in the world is aware of what a red star symbolizes in terms of politics.

[Dr Mindbender]

Yeah, I didn't claim that they did it intentionally. Though, every designer and marketer in the world is aware of what a red star symbolizes in terms of politics.

You think that is heineken's reasoning? :lol:

[Meridian]

You think that is heineken's reasoning? :lol:
I have no idea about Heineken, though am sure it would be easy to find out how they got their symbol.

Anyway, I did not mean to suggest that companies always do this purposefully. No need to mix causation in with correlation. What I meant to suggest was that there is a correlation; between companies using revolutionary symbols, and the symbols losing their revolutionary potency.

This simply because people think "oh, Coca Cola", instead of "oh, socialism". Well, not necessarily, but you get my point.

This is why it is a functional tactic.

[PHUNX]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:USgN_S0IYNUQCM:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Eureka_Flag.svg/640px-Eureka_Flag.svg.png
A lot of australian leftist groups and trade unions use blue because of the rebel blue aka Southern Cross the australian republican flag first raised in the eureka rebellion 1854 and at later at the Shearer’s strike 1891 Australia’s first big industrial dispute and almost every industrial dispute since.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4546
(eureka stockade 1854) Rebel bule aka Southern Cross being raised for first time and swearing allegiance to it
"I called on all miners irrespective of nationality, religion or colour to salute the Southern Cross as a refuge of all the oppressed from all countries on Earth." -Raffaello Carboni

"We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other and fight to defend our rights and liberties." -eureka oath

(ACTU) Australian Council of Trade Unions
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:LZovoBJNGckIvM:http://www.automotivetraining.org.au/images/actulogo1.jpg
(AWU) Australian Workers Union
http://www.awu.net.au/atwone/static/logo.gif
(BFL) Builders Labourers Federation http://www.blfq.org/
http://www.framework-of-flesh.com.au/images/wa_blf.jpg
(TWA) Transport Workers Union
http://www.atlasnavigator.com/atlas/imagecache/main/sites/atlas/4/TWU.jpg
(MUA) Maritime Union of Australia http://www.mua.org.au/
http://www.socialchange.net.au/client_solutions/case_studies/images/keysite_mua.gif
(UNITE) fast food and retail workers union
http://www.labortribune.net/Portals/0/Content/Images/unite.gif
(CFMEU) Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union http://cfmeu.asn.au/
http://gippslandtlc.com.au/Images/FFTS_logo.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4552
(CEPU)Communications, Electrical & Plumbing Union
http://www.unionshopper.com.au/unions/ceputas/ceputas_logo.gif
(ETU) Electrical Trades Union http://www.etu.asn.au/
http://www.crwflags.com/FOTW/images/a/au_etu.gif

just to name a few trade unions of the left in Australia that have adopted the Eureka Flag as one of its logos

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/226/489396371_f550f05c37.jpghttp://www.blfq.org/sites/default/files/images/Picture%2010.jpg
http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4540http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4646
http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4652http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4651
http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4536http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=550&pictureid=5199

http://www.revleft.com/vb/album.php?albumid=532

[ilikebacon3000]

I'm not sure blue would necessarily be better because people associate it with the right wing.

If we're going to test alternative colours why not go with day glow yellow?

Hmmm.. I always thought they associated blue with left wing politics in America and red for right?
I mean I always knew Commies were known as "Reds" over here in the US, but republicans have always been represented by red, haven't they?


Yes, I know Democrats and Republicans are both supporting the same 2 party, right wing system at the basis of things, but do you see my point?

[PHUNX]

Hmmm.. I always thought they associated blue with left wing politics in America and red for right?
I mean I always knew Commies were known as "Reds" over here in the US, but republicans have always been represented by red, haven't they?


Yes, I know Democrats and Republicans are both supporting the same 2 party, right wing system at the basis of things, but do you see my point?

the american left your funny :laugh:

[Dr Mindbender]

The irish revolutionary left also uses the starry plough flag which is blue.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/StarryPlough.svg/728px-StarryPlough.svg.png

[ilikebacon3000]

the american left your funny :laugh:

Ah... Everything is backwards here.. Measurements, the structure of sentences, and now even colors... Damn.

[ZombieGrits]

I really like that southern cross. if only america had something unique as a symbol instead of the fifteen-billionth rehash of some old soviet symbol

[PHUNX]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=550&pictureid=5208http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=550&pictureid=5209

it also comes in anarchist black and socialist red and thay cant say its un-american


By and by there was a result, and I think it may be called the finest thing in Australasian history. It was a revolution — small in size; but great politically; it was a strike for liberty, a struggle for principle, a stand against injustice and oppression....It is another instance of a victory won by a lost battle. It adds an honorable page to history; the people know it and are proud of it. They keep green the memory of the men who fell at the Eureka stockade, and Peter Lalor has his monument.
—Mark Twain

[AK]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:USgN_S0IYNUQCM:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Eureka_Flag.svg/640px-Eureka_Flag.svg.png
A lot of australian leftist groups and trade unions use blue because of the rebel blue aka Southern Cross the australian republican flag first raised in the eureka rebellion 1854 and at later at the Shearer’s strike 1891 Australia’s first big industrial dispute and almost every industrial dispute since.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4546
(eureka stockade 1854) Rebel bule aka Southern Cross being raised for first time and swearing allegiance to it


(ACTU) Australian Council of Trade Unions
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:LZovoBJNGckIvM:http://www.automotivetraining.org.au/images/actulogo1.jpg
(AWU) Australian Workers Union
http://www.awu.net.au/atwone/static/logo.gif
(BFL) Builders Labourers Federation http://www.blfq.org/
http://www.framework-of-flesh.com.au/images/wa_blf.jpg
(TWA) Transport Workers Union
http://www.atlasnavigator.com/atlas/imagecache/main/sites/atlas/4/TWU.jpg
(MUA) Maritime Union of Australia http://www.mua.org.au/
http://www.socialchange.net.au/client_solutions/case_studies/images/keysite_mua.gif
(UNITE) fast food and retail workers union
http://www.labortribune.net/Portals/0/Content/Images/unite.gif
(CFMEU) Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union http://cfmeu.asn.au/
http://gippslandtlc.com.au/Images/FFTS_logo.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4552
(CEPU)Communications, Electrical & Plumbing Union
http://www.unionshopper.com.au/unions/ceputas/ceputas_logo.gif
(ETU) Electrical Trades Union http://www.etu.asn.au/
http://www.crwflags.com/FOTW/images/a/au_etu.gif

just to name a few trade unions of the left in Australia that have adopted the Eureka Flag as one of its logos

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/226/489396371_f550f05c37.jpghttp://www.blfq.org/sites/default/files/images/Picture%2010.jpg
http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4540http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4646
http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4652http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4651
http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=532&pictureid=4536http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=550&pictureid=5199

http://www.revleft.com/vb/album.php?albumid=532
It's a shame that now the Eureka flag is used as a nationalistic symbol by many.

[AK]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=550&pictureid=5208http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=550&pictureid=5209

it also comes in anarchist black and socialist red and thay cant say its un-american
I do like the red version though; I'm going to use it as my avatar.

And un-American? We live in Australia, you do realise...

[PHUNX]

It's a shame that now the Eureka flag is used as a nationalistic symbol by many.
we should create a group dedicated to taking it back im thinking the (ELF) Eureka Liberation Front

The Eureka Youth League (EYL) was a youth organisation associated with the Communist Party around in the forties and fifties, it engaged in campaigns for peace and rights for young people, as well as organising camps, carnivals and sporting activitiesand was a founding member of the World Federation of Democratic Youth (WFDY) a anti-imperialist left-wing organisation that still exists the last event held in Venezuela 2005. Resistance (Youth of Democratic Socialist Perspective and Socialist Alliance) is a member.


"We pledge that we shall remember this unity, forged in this month, November 1945
Not only today, not only this week, this year, but always Until we have built the world we have dreamed of and fought for We pledge ourselves to build the unity of youth of the world All races, all colors, all nationalities, all beliefs To eliminate all traces of fascism from the earth To build a deep and sincere international friendship among the peoples of the world To keep a just lasting peace To eliminate want, frustration and enforced idleness We have come to confirm the unity of all youth salute our comrades who have died-and pledge our word that skilful hands, keen brains and young enthusiasm shall never more be wasted in war" — Pledge of the World Federation of Democratic Youth


i thought australia was the 51st state of america any way :laugh:

[PHUNX]

http://www.lib.monash.edu/exhibitions/communism/com032.jpg
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/images/pd221/221,487PD.jpghttp://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/images/pd221/221,491PD.jpg

[AK]

http://www.lib.monash.edu/exhibitions/communism/com032.jpg
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/images/pd221/221,487PD.jpghttp://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/images/pd221/221,491PD.jpg
Why are they flying the flags of the UK, USA and the Republic of China?

[PHUNX]

Why are they flying the flags of the UK, USA and the Republic of China?
i have no idea and i cant remember where i got that pic from. but i found these from mayday parade 1945
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3081/3096276905_b9fc7df075_o.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3160/3097118398_0604e7f435.jpg

[AK]

They seem to have been pretty big back in their heyday

[Kléber]

Why are they flying the flags of the UK, USA and the Republic of China?
According to Comintern parties, WWII had been a "people's war" against fascism since the USSR became involved, and in May 1945 the Chinese Civil War was still on hold for the Second United Front. The USSR had given large quantities of military support to the ROC and had a hard time abandoning it since the Nationalists still appeared stronger in 1945; Soviet recognition and the call for a coalition government did not cease until the Nationalist government fled to Taiwan 1949.

[Forward Union]

It doesn't sound silly to me. We need to use neutral and friendly colours. We are after all, people's friends. The aggressive gothinc Nazi-esque red and black can be easily misused/overdone and certainly puts people off.

White, blue, green, flicks of red all look very salable and most parties and unions also apply colours like this.

The IWW UK has a much bluer imagery than other counterparts. www.iww.org.uk

[MarxSchmarx]

The people's flag is deepest red,
It shrouded oft our martyr'd dead
And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold,
Their hearts' blood dyed its ev'ry fold.

Then raise the scarlet standard high,
Within its shade we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Red_flag.svg/800px-Red_flag.svg.png

[PHUNX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKj4upY1VYI