Age of Consent?

[sarmchain]

what do you think the age of consent for sex should be? and what do you think should happen to people who break it?
i think anybody who is interested in sex should be allowed to particapate regardless of their age or their partners age as long as its in not way forced and both sides consent 100%

[Crusade]

Consent is more than just simply making a yes or no decision. If you're a child then for the most part decisions "happen" to you and you don't really make them. You don't understand enough about your body or personal relationships(let alone intimate relationships) to make that decision. Especially concerning young female-adult male relationships that could cause serious physical damage to the woman. Then again I'm 19 and I've always found older women attractive, even at a young age. :wub: EDIT I voted 18 btw.

[red cat]

Mental maturity should be the only factor.

[Crusade]

Mental maturity should be the only factor.

If a mature 10 year old girl and a 40 year old man were involved in a sexual relationship, would you consider it appropriate? Also, how would you measure maturity?

[red cat]

If a mature 10 year old girl and a 40 year old man were involved in a sexual relationship, would you consider it appropriate? Also, how would you measure maturity?

Do not try to judge relationships by the parameters the present society provides.

Measuring maturity is a problem. But once more people agree to do away with social prejudices, a method can surely be found out.

[sarmchain]

most 10 year old girls are not interested in sex however if one is and fully consents to having sex with a 40 year old man then i see no problem

[ArrowLance]

How can it be based on maturity level? So the state gets to say when it is OK to start having sex on an individual basis?

In all honesty this is a non-question that can not be answered as social constructs will be radically reworked when the revolution comes.

Also all this extra things.

[¿Que?]

I think the fundamental question to ask has to be whether or not the relationship is exploitative. I know this doesn't really answer anything but instead opens up another can of worms (namely, what constitutes exploitation) but the key to adequately confronting this issue lies in this very question.

Approached from this perspective, the issue is divorced from the narrative of lost innocence as the central concern has less to do with age or maturity level than it does with relations involving power differentials.

On the other hand, I may be broadening the lens too much?

[Le Libérer]

most 10 year old girls are not interested in sex however if one is and fully consents to having sex with a 40 year old man then i see no problem
Except that sex with a 10 year old is rape. And a 40 year old who would even do such a thing is a pedophile.

Ten year olds are in no way mature enough to conceptulize what they would be getting into, no matter how much that 40 year old projected onto them their intentions.

Fucking disgusting.

[Crusade]

Except that sex with a 10 year old is rape. And a 40 year old who would even do such a thing is a pedophile.

Ten year olds are in no way mature enough to conceptulize what they would be getting into, no matter how much that 40 year old projected onto them their intentions.

Fucking disgusting.

Well I guess that's a better way of putting it. :thumbup1:

[Le Libérer]

Well I guess that's a better way of putting it. :thumbup1:
I worked as a child protection investigator. I have seen with my own eyes what sexual coersion to an innocent child is like. There is nothing worse than an adult who will rip the childhood from an innocent.

[sarmchain]

rape = forcing yourself on someone, i was talking about if both sides agreed on it yes most (if not all) 10 year olds are not mature enough to be even interested in sex yet in a world of 7 billion people there are bound to be a few unqiue cases if the child seeks to indulge there sexual curiousity and is attracted to the adult i see no problem as long as there is NO pressure from the adult for the act and what about 12 years old should they be able to? what about 13?15? or should we ban it all to protect the child from the "evils" of sex

[DesertShark]

rape = forcing yourself on someone, i was talking about if both sides agreed on it yes most (if not all) 10 year olds are not mature enough to be even interested in sex yet in a world of 7 billion people there are bound to be a few unqiue cases if the child seeks to indulge there sexual curiousity and is attracted to the adult i see no problem as long as there is NO pressure from the adult for the act and what about 12 years old should they be able to? what about 13?15? or should we ban it all to protect the child from the "evils" of sex
Rape is also coercion, a different type of force I guess (also, having sex with someone without their consent, regardless of force or coercion is also rape - see laws about the ability to consent when intoxicated).

I find it extremely hard to imagine a situation where a 10 (or 15, for that matter) year old wants to have sexual relations with an adult, where the child has never been violated, mistreated, abused, etc. by some other person before this desire arouse [you can't unfuck a child, besides is it even bologically possible for most 10 year old to be aroused? <-I don't actually care to know, but it just seems that their bodies wouldn't be mature enough for the possibility]. I agree that any adult in that situation is a pedophile, I couldn't even imagine a normal adult that would agree to sex with a consenting non-violated non-coerced 10 year old (that's just really disturbing actually). Now if two 12 year olds consented to sex with each other and neither one had any sort of prior abuse or such, that makes more sense; two kids trying something out without really knowing what they're getting into, but that's thing, they probably really don't understand the full extent of the situation.

[khad]

The pedophile liberationist has been banned. It is a time of rejoicing, for children everywhere.

[¿Que?]

I am probably going to pay for saying this, but it's got to be said.

While I in no way condone pedophilia (as my post suggests) I am concerned over the all too easy moral posturing that often accompanies these types of discussions, often as has occurred here in the States more than once, resulting in innocent people being jailed due to a combination of highly impressionable children and over zealous prosecutors.

[Crusade]

Wow sarm was banned? I enjoyed his posts :(

[Le Libérer]

Wow sarm was banned? I enjoyed his posts :(
Well yeah sorry, thats what happens when someone says a 10 year old can consent to sex as an adult.

[Bitter Ashes]

Informed consent is vital to all sexual relationships. A child cannot be informed properly when they're taught to respect the wishes of adults above thier own. Whatever the established age of majority is, should be the age of consent. In most cases that's 18.

Just hang back and think to yourself if thier was your son or daughter, or sister/brother/etc. Do you really think that in thier early teens and younger they were capable of making rational descions on stuff that could dictate how they potentialy live the rest of thier lives? Pre-puberty they wouldnt understand cause and effect, during puberty they're wrestling with hormones which screw up even the most rational of people.

[Meridian]

In that case the poll should be altered. As it stands now, most of the options warrants a banning.

I think 16 is a good age of consent, by the way. Many people (girls and boys) make a mistake then, but by 16 most people should be able to learn something from it.

[bayano]

This is a silly poll. Forgive me if im wrong, but i think no one has pointed out the big glaring mistake. age of consent has to be defined on gradations. as in, you cant have an arbitrary age and no qualifications. if the age of consent if 17 or 18, an 18 year old gets arrested for having sex with a 16 year old. so you have to have a difference in age built in, for example.

i actually approve of age of consent laws. strongly. and shove it in those spartacist league pedophiles' faces whenever i see them. but age of consent laws cannot be based on one arbitrary ages.

also, i understand dating someone older of younger. ive dated 8 year differences both ways. but lets be real, as we mature, what we find attractive really should as well. it is a sign of societal mental sickness that we cant figure that out. when i was 16, 12 year olds looked like little kids. when i was 20, 16 year olds looked like little kids. when i was 24, 18 year olds looked like little kids. 28:21. etc etc. and as i grow older, i am interested in people circa my age consistently, and find older folks (within 15 years of my age) more attractive, while younger folks less. im not saying you should beat yourself up if your level of attraction isn't developing healthfully, but you should fess up to yourself that it is because you are stuck on society's beauty standards and sexual illness.

[Dean]

I voted for only sex after marriage. I was going to go for the lowest choice but it just felt wrong.

[OldMoney]

What if an adult marries a 13 year old and has sex with them then hey. As was the case in the turn of the 20th century america, adult males would often be married to "children" 13, 14, 15. Now because they were married in the eyes of god does that make it alright for the adult male to have sex with the child? It all depends on where the social moral compas of the time is pointing at I guesse. Thats the problem with the question, It all depends on too many fluctuating circumstances that pinpointing a rule thats fair and equitable for everyone is impossible. Then again, lifes not fair, and there should be regulation in place to protect those who would be exploited sexually.

[counterblast]

I worked as a child protection investigator. I have seen with my own eyes what sexual coersion to an innocent child is like. There is nothing worse than an adult who will rip the childhood from an innocent.


How can you call yourself a radical, while reciting conservative (not to mention, Euro-centric/Judeo-Christian) rhetoric of the child's "innocence"?

The myth of children needing to remain "innocent" (or more accurately, ignorant and uninvolved in "adult" matters) is the reason children are so prone to unreported sexual assault and unable to distinguish between consent/nonconsent (rape) in the first place.

Do you consider yourself a feminist? If so, how can you not see the parallel to womyns history? We too were denied viewed as "innocent". We too were unable to distinguish and articulate rape because of our exclusion from the social power structure and our perceived ignorance.

[Crusade]

Well yeah sorry, thats what happens when someone says a 10 year old can consent to sex as an adult.

As disgusting the opinion is, couldn't there have been a warning first? Deleted post? :(

[Quail]

I don't see how you can really specify an age of consent. No matter what it is set to, there are people below that age who will have sex. How can you stop them?

I also don't think that you can set an arbitrary age where someone is or isn't mature enough to have sex with an "adult" (what constitutes an adult exactly?) because it varies in case to case, and in some cases there may be coercion - but regardless of the ages of the people involved, any coercion in a sexual manner is abuse/assault, so why does an age limit matter? The psychological effects of sexual assault or abuse are devastating to anybody, although in less experienced (or "innocent") people there is a possibility that it could have more of an effect on their future relationships because they may have never experienced healthy relationships/sexual relations.

[Le Libérer]

How can you call yourself a radical, while reciting conservative (not to mention, Euro-centric/Judeo-Christian) rhetoric of the child's "innocence"?

The myth of children needing to remain "innocent" (or more accurately, ignorant and uninvolved in "adult" matters) is the reason children are so prone to unreported sexual assault and unable to distinguish between consent/nonconsent (rape) in the first place. Do you consider yourself a feminist? If so, how can you not see the parallel to womyns history? We too were denied viewed as "innocent". We too were unable to distinguish and articulate rape because of our exclusion from the social power structure and our perceived ignorance. a 40 year old coercing a 10 year old to have sex has nothing to do with feminism. And no I dont see a correlation between feminism (equality among workers) and hurting the psyche and possible physical body of a child.

counterblast, would you have sex with a 10 year old? And to do so, would that make you a feminist?

I really would like to know how you could justify the two.

[Il Medico]

A better question ***** X is why you decided to ban sarmchain when other members here have made equally controversial statements about age of consent.

[Crusade]

A better question ***** X is why you decided to ban sarmchain when other members here have made equally controversial statements about age of consent.


Not to mention the polls.

[khad]

A better question ***** X is why you decided to ban sarmchain when other members here have made equally controversial statements about age of consent.
No one is perfect, but we aim to strive towards a better implementation of board policy. That said, anyone expressing such pedophile liberationist beliefs is a problem. Overt propaganda linking leftism to pedophilia is going to warrant a ban.

Furthermore, I don't exactly see the relevance of bringing the past into this when we are dealing with a member right now who is promoting an extremely questionable agenda. All it means is that a few degenerates have slipped through the cracks.

And regarding this argument about treating children as innocent leading to child abuse--it's a completely retrograde notion. There was a time when children were treated as little adults. They were called the middle ages, when it was perfectly fine to impregnate your 12-year-old wife.

[red cat]

This poll itself is an extremely controversial one. It should be either modified or trashed altogether, since even the options in the poll can be used as propaganda against us.

Many of us seem to have misconceptions regarding how a communist society would work. While not having any strict age of consent, the educated and conscious masses would stop paedophilia and every other crime. With proper education and social security available, it won't be possible for a forty year old to coax a child into having sex with him in the first place.

Lastly, I request the mods to consider unbanning sarmchain. Her previous posts contain nothing offensive, and I am sure that what she really meant in her last post must have been that the chance of a ten year old having sex with a forty year old in a communist society is zero.

[khad]

Lastly, I request the mods to consider unbanning sarmchain. Her previous posts contain nothing offensive, and I am sure that what she really meant in her last post must have been that the chance of a ten year old having sex with a forty year old in a communist society is zero.
Yes, supporting black markets and organ trading is nothing offensive. :rolleyes:

[red cat]

Yes, supporting black markets and organ trading is nothing offensive. :rolleyes:

Didn't notice those. Had she been warned ?

[khad]

Didn't notice those. Had she been warned ?
No, but I rejected this person from the Anti-Zionist group for this very reason. No way am I letting someone like that in when Israel illegally harvests organs from Palestinians.

[Crusade]

Something seems so wrong about it though :crying: While I understand your reasoning for the banning I can't help but think sarm deserves another chance. I think warnings in all cases should be issued before banning for those who's intentions aren't to disrupt or offend(trolling).

[whore]

Yes, supporting black markets and organ trading is nothing offensive. :rolleyes:
yes, because god forbid that anyone would take action against the current state regulated market. or want to work less, and thus pay less for items that are currently heavily taxed. etc.

i support black markets, because i object to government and capitalism.


on topic: i consider maturity and understanding to be the most important aspect of any sexual relationship. i also think that both are important when using drugs (including alcohol).

i think that the current system of punishing people who have sex with others who are slightly younger (or even the same age if both are under age) is compleatly crazy.

i think that in a free society, there will be much less absurdity around sex, sexual relations and similar. it wont be shameful, or disgusting to have sex with others. children will be educated about what sex is, and what consent is, etc. (actually, that happened to me from when i was about 10).

i would personally find it really odd if a 10 year old in such a free society (or in todays society), would be at all interested in having sex with anyone outside their own age group (if at all).

however, in such a free society, where a child understood the implications, was treated as an independent being, with thoughts and feelings. where a child was treated, not as some sort of property, or animal too stupid not to run into the traffic (and thus needing to be tied or locked up).

in such a society, a 10 year old could make their own decision (possibly in consoltation with an other adult they trusted, e.g. a teacher or parent) whether they wanted to have sex. whether that is with another 10 year old, a 12 year old, or a 40 year old.

i dont see it happening though, especially not with a 40 year old.

now, with all that, i await my banning because i dare challange the correct moral teachings that we should all adhere to.

[whore]

Well yeah sorry, thats what happens when someone says a 10 year old can consent to sex as an adult.
umm, funny, they didnt say that. they said that if a child could understand fully the implications, and they consent, then there is nothing wrong with a child having sex with an adult.

quite different from saying that a child should be treated as an adult.


a little bit more to add. a 10 year old is likely to be pre-pubesent. why would the consent to sex anyway? there is nothing in it for them. they might consent to a bit of touching, but not full out and out sex.
yeah, i dont see it happening, and i doubt that sarmchain could see it happening either.

but come on, we are meant to be at least radicals here. we are meant to challange the status quo. we want to bring about massive social changes. and we cant even discuss whether or not a child is likely to even want to consent to having sex with an adult?

[red cat]

i support black markets, because i object to government and capitalism.



Black marketing requires creating shortage of essential commodities like medicines artificially. It cannot be supported in any way.



i dont see it happening though, especially not with a 40 year old.



Exactly my point.

[Martin Blank]

I have removed the poll from this thread because it was obvious flamebait and an invitation to scrutiny by the capitalist state. In addition, consider this a blanket verbal warning to those who might want to "push the issue" in this thread. One more round of nonsense from anyone and I will close and trash this thread. Period.

[counterblast]

a 40 year old coercing a 10 year old to have sex has nothing to do with feminism. And no I dont see a correlation between feminism (equality among workers) and hurting the psyche and possible physical body of a child.

counterblast, would you have sex with a 10 year old? And to do so, would that make you a feminist?

I really would like to know how you could justify the two.

Anyone coercing anyone to have sex has nothing to do with feminism.

It should be a no-brainer to anyone here that rape is anti-feminist.

Whether I personally would have sex with a child, is irrelevant to the issue at hand. (I wouldn't, by the way :rolleyes:) Again, I never suggested that having sex with children is somehow inherently feminist; what I said is that there is an undeniable link between the exploitation and sexual repression of women and the exploitation and sexual repression of children.

We as radicals must be the foremost advocates of youth liberation on all fronts, sexual or otherwise.

Simply being a so-called "advocate" for children means advocating for childrens absolute freedom. Advocating for children based on how it benefits adults is not revolutionary whether it be NAMBLA advocating for sexual emancipation of children but not political emancipation, or a "radical" here on RevLeft advocating "youth liberation" but immediate condemning (or flat out denying) any attempt for a child to express him/herself sexually.

I'm not saying we allow children to have sex tommorrow. What I am saying is that children must be given political freedom, no longer denied access to knowledge, & THEN allowed to make sexual decisions for themselves.

[Il Medico]

No one is perfect, but we aim to strive towards a better implementation of board policy. It is board policy to ban someone for stating that they support a low age of consent or none at all? If so we should have one less admin.
That said, anyone expressing such pedophile liberationist beliefs is a problem.Supporting the abuse of children should indeed be a bannable offense. However, I do not think that is what sarmchain was supporting. They seem to be supporting the position that young people should be able to have sex with anyone they want, taking to the extreme example of a sexually aware 10 year old's (however unlikely that may be) right to choose to have sex with anyone, even a 40 year old.

Furthermore, I don't exactly see the relevance of bringing the past into this The relevance is the possible double standard in how member with controversial beliefs about age of consent should be dealt with.

There was a time when children were treated as little adults. They were called the middle ages, when it was perfectly fine to impregnate your 12-year-old wife.
There are still cultures around the world who have very young girls who are married off to older men. There was recently a case where a man was arrested in my state after a neighbor saw him kissing his 13 year old wife. Police arrested him and the prosecution has put him on trial despite the protest of the girl, her mother and other family. The people in question come from a small tribe indigenous to Honduras, where this is standard practice. (within the tribe not honduras).

[khad]

It is board policy to ban someone for stating that they support a low age of consent or none at all?
Since when are pedophiles allowed? And the hypothetical situation with a 10 year old kid is invariably child abuse, and no amount of rationalizing is going to change that. How the hell does someone who hasn't even gone through puberty have sexual awareness?


The relevance is the possible double standard in how member with controversial beliefs about age of consent should be dealt with.Well, it is being dealt with now. I guess you can hope for more consistency in the future. That's as much as I can say to you.

[The Essence Of Flame Is The Essence Of Change]

What is wrong with the conservatism on this site lately??:blink:I could post loads of arguements of why age of consent is a total bullshit but I only respect this:

In addition, consider this a blanket verbal warning to those who might want to "push the issue" in this thread.
I still find it disturbing that most people here would have happily had sent me in jail for my first sexual relationship which was with a 21 y.o girl (at my 15).Ye, drawing a line at a certain age is gonna help really much, don't you know you just pass one day and then ding you are mature?Because everyone knows that all adults are mature enough to form non-abusive relationships and people beyond the limit just can't handle that:rolleyes:

[Bitter Ashes]

You can't think clearly and rationaly with your loins when you're new to hormones. Therefore you're automaticly incapable of bieng in a sound enough state of mind to give informed consent.

If somebody was under the influence of alchohol, or drugs when they gave consent, then we wouldnt be having this conversation. It'd be unanomous that it'd be rape. Bieng under the influence of that many hormones is certainly mind altering, especially when it comes to sex.

Prime example was when I was 15 seeing a classmate set fire to his own pubic hair for a bet because he believed he'd get head from my friend. That sort of shit only ever happens when you're drunk, stoned, or otherwise of impaired judgement.

[Le Libérer]

What is wrong with the conservatism on this site lately??:blink:I could post loads of arguements of why age of consent is a total bullshit but I only respect this:

I still find it disturbing that most people here would have happily had sent me in jail for my first sexual relationship which was with a 21 y.o girl (at my 15).Ye, drawing a line at a certain age is gonna help really much, don't you know you just pass one day and then ding you are mature?Because everyone knows that all adults are mature enough to form non-abusive relationships and people beyond the limit just can't handle that:rolleyes:
WTF ever. I was 15 years old when I was coerced into believing I was mature enough to have sex. He was 23. I got pregnant. My parents made me marry this man. Did I think all that thru when he was coercing me? Fuck no.

These days just the age difference would land him in jail. I sure thought I knew the consequences and I love my son. But I have struggled all my life to be a mother to someone who could have easily been my little brother. So dont tell me about the powers that be. I know all too well.

Do I give a fuck you were 15 when you had a relationship with a 21 year old? No.

What I do care about is, contrived senarios on this board. Its highly monitored by the police, especially police in the US. I am not going to sit here and watch this board go down and this server be confiscated because some of you want to explore what ifs.

I dare say you wont find one admin who disagrees with me either. So on that note, thread closed.