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View Full Version : Capitalism still developing?



jake williams
4th March 2010, 01:05
I'm wondering what folks think about two related questions that come up a lot for me. I'm well aware that they're not new or innovative questions, but I've never really seen them addressed.

1) Could capitalism still be developing? Either with respect to itself, or with respect to history in general (are these two even distinct)? It's probably been more than a century that it's been taken for granted, at least by some, that capitalism has achieved its highest level of development, and now we're just waiting for socialism. Every crisis is the last crisis, that sort of thing. Capitalism has thus far always resolved its crises, in basically all cases in the benefit of the bourgeoisie - by increasing the exploitation of the working class, by expanding its markets and profitability through imperialism, etc. And I don't see any serious explanation as to how it will stop being able to any time soon. There is still a huge chunk of the world where imperialist or capitalist expansion is still to be had. I read a lot of what are effectively the discussion organs of the ruling class; and both in the "layman" press and in more academic work, a huge focus is "poverty alleviation" where the authors and the readers are extremely open about how this is a way of achieving rapid profits compared to a stagnant metropolis.

2) If we indeed face a capitalism in the process of its own development, what are we as Marxists to do? I think everyone sensible accepts that history is not simply a direct and linear process of modes of production originating, expanding, and wearing themselves out in some sort of a methodological pattern. But at the same time, if capitalism is proving itself quite able, at the present time, quite able (of course with a lot of hurt and difficulty, even on the part of the ruling class) to resolve its own crises, what can we actually productively do?

I'm tempted to interpret Marxist anti-imperialism as an attempt to stem the capacity of capitalism to resolve its crises outside of developed capitalist countries, and to turn their viciousness inward, to radicalize the working class of industrialized countries and urge them forward to socialism. Is that actually what's going on? How conscious is it?

Psy
4th March 2010, 01:54
No, in terms of real surplus value capitalism has been mostly stagnant since the end of the long boom, and capitalism has not been really resolved crises so much as delayed them for example this current crisis can traced back to the falling rate of profits of the 1970's.

jake williams
4th March 2010, 02:09
No, in terms of real surplus value capitalism has been mostly stagnant since the end of the long boom, and capitalism has not been really resolved crises so much as delayed them for example this current crisis can traced back to the falling rate of profits of the 1970's.
"Resolved" was much to strong a term - the contradictions are certainly still there. But the rate of global industrial development, and that's mostly capitalist development, outside of the industrialized West has been massive since well after the end of the "long boom".

Psy
4th March 2010, 02:17
"Resolved" was much to strong a term - the contradictions are certainly still there. But the rate of global industrial development, and that's mostly capitalist development, outside of the industrialized West has been massive since well after the end of the "long boom".
Not really, remember as labor value falls in production so does the value of commodities thus the rise of China production has been offset by its low labor value resulting in negligible net increase in surplus value.

RadioRaheem84
4th March 2010, 03:27
No, in terms of real surplus value capitalism has been mostly stagnant since the end of the long boom, and capitalism has not been really resolved crises so much as delayed them for example this current crisis can traced back to the falling rate of profits of the 1970's.

I've always been surprised at how the policymakers were able to keep the economy going on for three decades! All of it mostly relying on debt finance too.

ZombieGrits
4th March 2010, 03:44
My unofficial, uneducated point of view is that capitalism has expanded all that it can in the developed world and now must depend on economic imperialism to keep itself alive, a process that has been underway pretty much ever since the fall of classical military imperialism.

No crisis we will see in our lifetimes will be the last one (if capitalism continues, that is). Capitalism can only function through constant expansion, and only once the entire world's markets are totally saturated and can no longer be exploited any longer will capitalism die of its own accord.

jake williams
4th March 2010, 05:11
Not really, remember as labor value falls in production so does the value of commodities thus the rise of China production has been offset by its low labor value resulting in negligible net increase in surplus value.
I'd like you to clarify this, and my knowledge of Marxist economic theory is not perfect, but I'd dispute this on the face of it. The development of capitalism in China has occurred on a pretty massive scale. It may be slowing down relative to the broader history of capitalism; but it's certainly growing, and I'd argue it's quite possible it's even at a faster pace than that historically. Obviously the growth is not sustainable in the long run, but it's happening now, and I think, may happen soon in other places at a similar pace.

Psy
4th March 2010, 11:19
I'd like you to clarify this, and my knowledge of Marxist economic theory is not perfect, but I'd dispute this on the face of it. The development of capitalism in China has occurred on a pretty massive scale. It may be slowing down relative to the broader history of capitalism; but it's certainly growing, and I'd argue it's quite possible it's even at a faster pace than that historically. Obviously the growth is not sustainable in the long run, but it's happening now, and I think, may happen soon in other places at a similar pace.
But it has been offset by lower labor value that results in lower commodity values that result in lower surplus value.

jake williams
4th March 2010, 15:20
But it has been offset by lower labor value that results in lower commodity values that result in lower surplus value.
Explain what this actually means, and why it happens.

chegitz guevara
4th March 2010, 15:50
I think that capitalism has pretty much exhausted itself under currently available investment avenues. Technology, however, could change that, by opening up the possibility of a new realm of profitable investment.

That does not mean capitalism isn't developing. It is a dynamic system, always changing, always in motion. Capitalism will continue to develop until it is overthrow or it destroys itself.

berlitz23
4th March 2010, 15:57
I think Gilles Deleuze and Guattari's Anti Oedipus projects a cone of light on the perpetual flux and trajectory of Capitalism: "Capitalism constantly counteracts, constantly inhibits, this inherent tendency while at the same allowing it free rein; it continually seeks to avoid reaching its limit while simultaneously tending toward that limit."
Since Capitalism is predicated on a falling rate of profit as well, it ultimately thrives on its self-induced crisis enabling it to maintain its rate of profit. Capitalism is conservative in its outlook, strictly embracing innovation when it does so therefore corporations manufacturing technological products that have greatly restricted our sphere of freedom, a freedom that is channeled towards social sanctioned avenues. Essentially, I don't know if we can label our contemporary socius as capitalist, yet something analgalous of corporatism, therefore capitalism has overbloated, cannibalizing and transmogrifying into a greater degenerate state.

Psy
4th March 2010, 21:24
Explain what this actually means, and why it happens.
The value of a commodity is determined by the average labor value required to produce it. This means as the proletariat is exploited more they produce less surplus value per unit of commodity.

This is not limited to the capitalist mode of production for example if you brought heavy industrialized means to extract gold back in time to a feudal economy the value of gold would go down drastically as you introduce heavy earth movers to drastically increase the rate of extracting gold while lowering the labor required per tonne of gold.