Revolution

[redmist]

Hi, new member here. Just read a post on this forum that got me thinking about revolution. Specifically, where do you feel the revolution will start, and do any of you believe the revolution can be brought around at a faster speed?

If that isn't clear say. I've only just started taking a serious interest in Marxism and such recently, so I'm curious to see how different people view the revolution.

[pierrotlefou]

Hi, new member here. Just read a post on this forum that got me thinking about revolution. Specifically, where do you feel the revolution will start, and do any of you believe the revolution can be brought around at a faster speed?

If that isn't clear say. I've only just started taking a serious interest in Marxism and such recently, so I'm curious to see how different people view the revolution.
We'll know once the working class becomes more class conscious.

[ArrowLance]

Work hard and it could be tomorrow. That is what we have to struggle to do. A decade or two and who knows.

[scarletghoul]

Revolutionary situations arise in differant countries and regions at differant times. At the moment south asia and latin amerika seem to be the furthest on the way to revolution. Specifically, Nepal and Venezuela but theyve got movements all around in neighboring countries too. I'd guess that USA will be the last difficult revolutionary struggle, either because its so resistant that we will have to take the rest of the world first, or because once we get the USA the balance of global power will be on our side and the rest will be not too hard.

As for your second question yes definately revolution can be brought around at a faster speed. The revolutionary situation can at least, and we should take a policy of 'hastening while awaiting'; trying our best to speed up the arrival of a revolutionary situation but without jumping ahead and trying to win when the conditions are not there.

[Искра]

Advice to OP: Don't read bullshit people write here - read Marx. You'll learn more by reading some basic stuff, like Communist Manifesto, then you'll learn here reading post by some kids.

When will revolution start? It will start one day, when working class become aware of it's power. Also, it will start when working class say: fuck off, to every "revolutionary" opportunist vanguard and idiots who claim that bourgeoisie coup d'etat's are revolutions. Without that we will go around, around and around imprisoned in utopia's of people who claim "next time will be better". Yeah right.
(http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=24432)

[ArrowLance]

Advice to OP: Don't read bullshit people write here - read Marx. You'll learn more by reading some basic stuff, like Communist Manifesto, then you'll learn here reading post by some kids.

When will revolution start? It will start one day, when working class become aware of it's power. Also, it will start when working class say: fuck off, to every "revolutionary" opportunist vanguard and idiots who claim that bourgeoisie coup d'etat's are revolutions. Without that we will go around, around and around imprisoned in utopia's of people who claim "next time will be better". Yeah right.
(http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=24432)
Don't listen to this fellow, revolution doesn't 'just happen'. We work at it and seize the opportunities we can.

[Comrade Lucifer]

Naturally, I would say the labour movement - but I do think we're in a good position to seize the means of production. Well, presuming more support, of course. But yah, revolutionary unionism. That doesn't mean we should ignore other movements, though. Plus, i'm very biased.

[which doctor]

The revolution will only occur once the working-class have developed an adequate class consciousness. They need to be aware of their historical mission to destroy capitalism and create socialism, as the are the only ones in the position to do this.

The revolution will not happen suddenly, but will be the result of decades of education, agitation, and organization.

In most of the first-world, class consciousness is pitifully undeveloped, especially compared to where it was around the high point of the early 20th century. Essentially, we have to start back the ground level, building class consciousness out of a possibility that only remains a vague historical memory for most.

The task of the Marxist today, as it always ever has been, is to build class consciousness and every political action needs to reflect on whether or not completed this task. Did this action educate and politicize people? Did this action remind people that they have the capability to become an historical agent? etc.

This is how you bring a revolution around at a 'faster speed' and I think all Marxists become de facto intellectuals and form a type of vanguard, since they are the ones in the position of giving the revolution its necessary 'intellectual' character.

[redmist]

I agree with you which doctor, I do feel the 3rd world is important in bringing round the revolution though. I think 3rd world countries needs to be focused on, as they have the ability to bring in a lot of sympathizers.

By that I mean going out to these countries and helping the oppressed. Building schools, teaching, helping in any way they require. That doesn't mean go out there and attempt to force ideas on them or do it so you feel good in yourself, of course. But build for them, hopefully, the framework that will help them bring about revolution in their countries.

I do believe this should be something Marxists look to contribute to in some way. That is open to debate however.

[which doctor]

I agree with you which doctor, I do feel the 3rd world is important in bringing round the revolution though. I think 3rd world countries needs to be focused on, as they have the ability to bring in a lot of sympathizers.

By that I mean going out to these countries and helping the oppressed. Building schools, teaching, helping in any way they require. That doesn't mean go out there and attempt to force ideas on them or do it so you feel good in yourself, of course. But build for them, hopefully, the framework that will help them bring about revolution in their countries.

I do believe this should be something Marxists look to contribute to in some way. That is open to debate however.
That's nice and all, but don't fool yourself into believing that building infrastructure and doing human development work in the third-world is leftism. The task of the first-world leftist should be to build a left in the first-world. Only with an international left, can real solutions to the abject poverty so many people live in ever be proposed.

[RED DAVE]

Especially, read, read and read the basic Marxist stuff. Ask questions. Get active. Be critical, especially of old farts like RED DAVE.

RED DAVE

[Tablo]

Marx is wonderful an you should certainly read his works, but don't limit yourself to just him.

[Invincible Summer]

I agree with you which doctor, I do feel the 3rd world is important in bringing round the revolution though. I think 3rd world countries needs to be focused on, as they have the ability to bring in a lot of sympathizers.

By that I mean going out to these countries and helping the oppressed. Building schools, teaching, helping in any way they require. That doesn't mean go out there and attempt to force ideas on them or do it so you feel good in yourself, of course. But build for them, hopefully, the framework that will help them bring about revolution in their countries.

I do believe this should be something Marxists look to contribute to in some way. That is open to debate however.

You may be interested in reading about Maoism, as it is a very popular revolutionary movement in the developing world. Many Maoists are also trying to adapt the theories to work in developed countries as well.

Here are a couple of sites:
http://www.massline.info/
http://www.marx2mao.com/Mao/Index.html



That's nice and all, but don't fool yourself into believing that building infrastructure and doing human development work in the third-world is leftism. The task of the first-world leftist should be to build a left in the first-world. Only with an international left, can real solutions to the abject poverty so many people live in ever be proposed.
Of course, we should be defending movement developments in the 3rd World as well. You may be implying this, but I just wanted to clarify so that the OP does't think leftists in the West should just care about the West

[4N4RCHY]

The evolution of revolution requires a strong stroke of passion. Educating the proletariat is all well and good, but we need to give him passion. Then and only then will we wake the sleeping worker giant and bring Red Justice to the world.

[chegitz guevara]

Hi, new member here. Just read a post on this forum that got me thinking about revolution. Specifically, where do you feel the revolution will start, and do any of you believe the revolution can be brought around at a faster speed?

If that isn't clear say. I've only just started taking a serious interest in Marxism and such recently, so I'm curious to see how different people view the revolution.

I think it's pretty clear the next revolution will be in Nepal.

There's a revolutionary situation developing in Greece and a potential revolutionary situation exists in Iceland.

It remains to be seen whether the Venezuelan and Bolivian revolutions will be anything more than attempts to complete unfinished bourgeois revolutions.

[hammer&sickle]

That's nice and all, but don't fool yourself into believing that building infrastructure and doing human development work in the third-world is leftism. The task of the first-world leftist should be to build a left in the first-world. Only with an international left, can real solutions to the abject poverty so many people live in ever be proposed.

I tend to agree with your point about an international left. The US has taken on the role of world defender of private property. The situation in Haiti was a point in fact as was the events after Katrina. There was no way in hell that the US would allow the people to try and rebuild their lives without the supremacy of private property. Troops were sent in before aid supposedly to prevent looting and chaos. It is the task of the left in the first world, especially in the U.S. to educate their respective populations and build a truly international party.

[danyboy27]

Hi, new member here. Just read a post on this forum that got me thinking about revolution. Specifically, where do you feel the revolution will start, and do any of you believe the revolution can be brought around at a faster speed?

If that isn't clear say. I've only just started taking a serious interest in Marxism and such recently, so I'm curious to see how different people view the revolution.

welcome! I really dont know how it will happen, maybe you might be the one who will find the great idea to achieve it faster!

on another note, dont lets yourself indoctrinated by other member of this forum, be a free spirit, read and keep your mind open, dont seek an ideology too fast.

even in your lectures, dont limit yourselves to books who talk about the left, Knowledge is good for understanding, and by reading stuff from multiples political spectrum, including the right, you will gain significant knowledge, from this knowledge you will be able to make yourself an idea.

And, in book like in life, beward of the indoctrination.

welcome to the forum!

[redmist]

Rise Like Lions: All I feel now is that the workers in more developed countries shouldn't focus purely on their own country. I know personally for example, while I plan on becoming more active locally, I am in a "privileged" position that, being young and working, I can afford to probably spend time in other countries. Learning of their struggle as much as helping them.

I will be reading about Maoism at some stage, although I've just ordered a truck load of books and plan on ploughing through those first.

[ArmedGuerilla]

This can be answered by any one of Marx's great works... Specifically The Communist Manifesto. This is an extremely important read for any non-poser leftist.

[bcbm]

This can be answered by any one of Marx's great works... Specifically The Communist Manifesto. This is an extremely important read for any non-poser leftist.

i've skimmed it. never really found it to be all that useful; i've learned a lot more from discussing and reading newer works.

[which doctor]

Of course, we should be defending movement developments in the 3rd World as well. You may be implying this, but I just wanted to clarify so that the OP does't think leftists in the West should just care about the West
What's important to recognize is that we should not support third-world movements only by virtue of their being in the 'third-world.' This is a tactic the Left adopted in 1960's, when they thought the prospect for socialism in Europe had eclipsed, and that we should look to the third-world for the revolution. Of course, this mistake was more than disastrous, not only because it neglected leftist concerns in the first-world, but because it also ended up in support for very reactionary politics, such as in the case of the Iranian Revolution, which was heralded by the RCP and people like Foucault, but ended in an absolute slaughter of the Iranian Left and the creation of a reactionary, semi-feudal regime.

Although I use the word 'third-world' a lot, perhaps I shouldn't because it presupposes the idea that the first-world is of a fundamentally different nature than the third-world, which is false. Revolutions will not occur in isolated 'third-world' pockets like what many believe is occurring in Nepal right now, but can only come as a result of building a truly international Left, which for the individual, means focusing on building the framework for this international left in your own country.