Another setback for the cause ????

[Che a chara]

Europe officials urge new international court for communist crimes

[JURIST] An international court to prosecute crimes against humanity committed by communist regimes should be created by the European Union (http://europa.eu/) (EU) [official website], the participants of the Prague Crimes of the Communist Regime Conference (http://www.crimesofcommunism.eu/home.html) [official website] said in a joint statement (http://www.ustrcr.cz/en/international-conference-crimes-of-the-communist-regimes) [text] Friday. The participants in the conference, organized by the Institute for the Study of Totalitarian Regimes (http://www.ustrcr.cz/en/the-institute) [official website], said that the new court should be established because such crimes, which are not subject to a statute of limitations under international law, fall outside the jurisdiction of current international courts. The statement also characterized the prosecution of communist crimes over the past 20 years as "extremely unsatisfactory." The three-day conference, attended mostly by government officials from eastern and central Europe, focused on current communist regimes and their threat to democracy. In the statement, the participants also called for the erection of a memorial to the victims of communism in Europe and the dedication of European-wide Day of Remembrance of the victims of all totalitarian and authoritarian regimes on August 23.

Last year, prosecutors from the five major international tribunals called on member states (http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2009/11/international-prosecutors-call-for.php) [JURIST report] "to seriously consider the adoption of a convention on the Suppression and Punishment of Crimes against Humanity." The statement came at the end of a three-day convention and reiterated the need to fight against impunity for perpetrators of serious international crimes. Representatives from the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (http://www.ictr.org/) (ICTR), the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia (http://www.icty.org/) (ICTY), the Special Court of Sierra Leone (http://www.sc-sl.org/) (SCSL), the Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia (http://www.eccc.gov.kh/) (ECCC), the International Criminal Court (http://www.icc-cpi.int/Menus/ICC) (ICC), and the Special Tribunal for Lebanon (http://www.stl-tsl.org/action/home) (STL) [official websites] attended the colloquium, which was held in Rwanda and hosted by the ICTR. The statement, which was unanimously adopted by the participants, also called on states to ensure their legal systems can effectively prosecute international crimes, to provide full cooperation to the all international criminal tribunals, and to become a party to the Rome Statute (http://www.icc-cpi.int/NR/rdonlyres/EA9AEFF7-5752-4F84-BE94-0A655EB30E16/0/Rome_Statute_English.pdf) [text, PDF] of the ICC, if they have not already done so.

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2010/03/europe-officials-urge-new-international.php

[Che a chara]

Looks like there is no let up in the criminalisation of communism. Though the regimes during that period where working under the guise of communism and not in the name and ideology of communism, no doubt this will be used as a good propaganda tool for right wing scum.

[Nolan]

Psssht.

I've got a message for the EU:

http://randazza.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/middle-finger.jpg

[Scary Monster]

I hope this idea gets nothing more than an LOL. Communist crimes against humanity? :lol::lol: Has it ever occured to these numbskulls to punish the US government for their countless crimes: sending waves of B52s to indiscriminately bomb north vietnam (after they saw their puppet regime was failing embarrassingly), funding and supporting apartheid governments (such as in the wars in Angola), giving military aid to Israel to blatantly bomb Palestinian civilians, and funding coups and conducting assassinations against democratically-elected Arab and Latin governments for the past 50 years, etc.....literally countless cases of the US supporting and directly contributing toward mass deaths of entire nations. All this to maintain their economic interests to sustain capitalism.
I guess this is another case of the victors getting to rewrite history.

[Nolan]

I hope this idea gets nothing more than an LOL. Communist crimes against humanity? :lol::lol: Has it ever occured to these numbskulls to punish the US government for their countless crimes: sending waves of B52s to indiscriminately bomb north vietnam (after they saw their puppet regime was failing embarrassingly), funding and supporting apartheid governments (such as in the wars in Angola), giving military aid to Israel to blatantly bomb Palestinian civilians, and funding coups and conducting assassinations against democratically-elected Arab and Latin governments for the past 50 years, etc.....literally countless cases of the US supporting and directly contributing toward mass deaths of entire nations. All this to maintain their economic interests to sustain capitalism.
I guess this is another case of the victors getting to rewrite history.

Not to mention the lebensraum conducted against the Native Americans.

[Che a chara]

I hope this idea gets nothing more than an LOL. Communist crimes against humanity? :lol::lol: Has it ever occured to these numbskulls to punish the US government for their countless crimes: sending waves of B52s to indiscriminately bomb north vietnam (after they saw their puppet regime was failing embarrassingly), funding and supporting apartheid governments (such as in the wars in Angola), giving military aid to Israel to blatantly bomb Palestinian civilians, and funding coups and conducting assassinations against democratically-elected Arab and Latin governments for the past 50 years, etc.....literally countless cases of the US supporting and directly contributing toward mass deaths of entire nations.
I guess this is another case of the victors getting to rewrite history.

spot on SM.

The bastards get to draw the line and define who and what is a victim and who is the 'culprit', despite being guilty of the same and more 'crimes'.

The people need to bloody wake up. But the truth it seems would be too much for many to swallow so they're happy to live in ignorance and denial. :cursing:

[Che a chara]

Not to mention the lebensraum conducted against the Native Americans.

I think it's time for us to write up our own report documenting right-wing capitalist crimes and human rights abuses and have it authenticated and sent off so the world can have an eye opener.

CAPITALIST AND IMPERIALIST SCUM SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR MASS MURDERS AND SEVERE HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES !!!!

[Nolan]

I think it's time for us to write up our own report documenting right-wing capitalist crimes and human rights abuses and have it authenticated and sent off so the world can have an eye opener.

CAPITALIST AND IMPERIALIST SCUM SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR MASS MURDERS AND SEVERE HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES !!!!

Problem is, they'll talk about alleged and real communist crimes on CNN forever. Anything we produce will be limited to google searches.

[Drace]

I hope this idea gets nothing more than an LOL. Communist crimes against humanity? http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/laugh.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/laugh.gif Has it ever occured to these numbskulls to punish the US government for their countless crimes: sending waves of B52s to indiscriminately bomb north vietnam (after they saw their puppet regime was failing embarrassingly), funding and supporting apartheid governments (such as in the wars in Angola), giving military aid to Israel to blatantly bomb Palestinian civilians, and funding coups and conducting assassinations against democratically-elected Arab and Latin governments for the past 50 years, etc.....literally countless cases of the US supporting and directly contributing toward mass deaths of entire nations. All this to maintain their economic interests to sustain capitalism.
I guess this is another case of the victors getting to rewrite history. Your missing...

-Death squads in Guatemala.
-Training and financing the Contras.
-Supporting dictator Maximilian in El Salvador.
-Aiding Pinochet's coup against democrat president Allende in Chile, and providing financial aid.
-Occupying Haiti for over 20 years.
-Supporting Papa Doc, dictator of Haiti.
-Overthrowing democratically elected progressive Haitian leader Artisde.
-Overthrowing democratically elected president of Iran in 1953. Replacing it with the Shah.
-Supporting, financing and training extremists in Afghanistan (mujahideen).
-Supporting the Taliban
-Supporting dictator Hussein. Supplying with chemical weapons and other aid in war.
-Overthrowing Hussein and the war in Iraq.
-War in Afghanistan.
-Supporting Saudi Arabian dictatorship.
-Occupying Philippines and supporting dictatorship.
-Occupying and overthrowing progressive government in Nicaragua and New Granada.
-Rigging elections in Bulgaria, destabilization campaign.
-Sanctions and war on Iraq (First Gulf War)
-Unjust war in Vietnam
-Unjust war in Korea.
-Secret carpet bombings in Cambodia.
-Use of chemical warfare in Vietnam (specifically Agent Orange)
-Intervention against the Bolsheviks.
-Overthrowing democratic Greece president, replaced with dictator.
-Bombing and destabilization of Yugoslavia.

Just off the top of my head...
Anyone want to do some serious research in how many deaths this has caused?

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Is it a coincidence that this effort seems to be spearheaded by the government of the Czech Republic, the country with the largest communist party in Europe outside of the former USSR? Heh. The Czech bourgeoisie is a little scared, perhaps?

You should be aware that East European governments suffer from a chronic crisis of legitimacy. Most people here do not believe that our bourgeois governments have any right to rule, and tolerate them only by lack of an alternative. I suspect that East European capitalists are so eager to criminalize communism because they are desperate for something - anything - to justify their power in the eyes of the working class. East European capitalists are not in any danger at the moment, of course, but their position is extremely fragile, and they know it. If a revolution were to start anywhere around the region, they would all fall like a house of cards.

[Scary Monster]

Is it a coincidence that this effort seems to be spearheaded by the government of the Czech Republic, the country with the largest communist party in Europe outside of the former USSR? Heh. The Czech bourgeoisie is a little scared, perhaps?

You should be aware that East European governments suffer from a chronic crisis of legitimacy. Most people here do not believe that our bourgeois governments have any right to rule, and tolerate them only by lack of an alternative. I suspect that East European capitalists are so eager to criminalize communism because they are desperate for something - anything - to justify their power in the eyes of the working class. East European capitalists are not in any danger at the moment, of course, but their position is extremely fragile, and they know it. If a revolution were to start anywhere around the region, they would all fall like a house of cards.

Hmm i seee. So this proposal is just a sign of weakness and desperation of the current east european capitalist governments?

[Bud Struggle]

Is it a coincidence that this effort seems to be spearheaded by the government of the Czech Republic, the country with the largest communist party in Europe outside of the former USSR? Heh. The Czech bourgeoisie is a little scared, perhaps? So you see a plot?


You should be aware that East European governments suffer from a chronic crisis of legitimacy. Most people here do not believe that our bourgeois governments have any right to rule, and tolerate them only by lack of an alternative. And the Communist had a similar problem. Maybe it's best to bring back the Czar and the Hapsburgs?


I suspect that East European capitalists are so eager to criminalize communism because they are desperate for something - anything - to justify their power in the eyes of the working class. East European capitalists are not in any danger at the moment, of course, but their position is extremely fragile, and they know it. If a revolution were to start anywhere around the region, they would all fall like a house of cards. You know as well as anyone else that if a Revolution were started in Eastern Europe at this present time the chance that it would go Fascist would be much greater than Communist.

[Nolan]

So you see a plot?

What we have here is a case of the winners writing history to their advantage to discourage any alternatives to the system they've set up. If that's seeing a plot, then he's guilty as charged.


And the Communist had a similar problem.Not really.


You know as well as anyone else that if a Revolution were started in Eastern Europe at this present time the chance that it would go Fascist would be much greater than Communist.I don't think that's necessarily the case. We have more support there than most people realize. I think the threat of the nazi boogeyman tends to be overplayed here.

[Bud Struggle]

What we have here is a case of the winners writing history to their advantage to discourage any alternatives to the system they've set up. If that's seeing a plot, then he's guilty as charged. That indeed has always been the case.


Not really. I don't see the Communists showing up for 50 years in the 2000 year history of Europe then disappearing in the blink of an eye as being truly legitimate. They come closer to being called a glitch.


I don't think that's necessarily the case. We have more support there than most people realize. I think the threat of the nazi boogeyman tends to be overplayed here. Even here in America Stormfront is 10 times the size of RevLeft. Fascists are definite players in the anti-culture of Europe. If they were nothing would Revleft's antifas secetion be so rabid?

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Hmm i seee. So this proposal is just a sign of weakness and desperation of the current east european capitalist governments?
Yes. However...


You know as well as anyone else that if a Revolution were started in Eastern Europe at this present time the chance that it would go Fascist would be much greater than Communist.
Bud is right. The capitalists are weak, but the communist movement is even weaker (where it exists at all). So capitalism survives. There are social convulsions, but those tend to be unfocused, without any clear plan for change, and mostly nationalist/fascist oriented.

Still, if you're a capitalist, it's dangerous to be in a position where your power is so fragile that any serious challenger could overthrow you. Even if you have no serious opposition today, who knows what might happen tomorrow? You can't just sit around and hope that no challenger comes along. You have to do something to strengthen your position. That's what this criminalization of communism is all about.


So you see a plot?
The Czech government tried to ban communist organizations before. It's not like the "plot" is secret or anything. They want to make it illegal to be a communist. I mean, they pretty much said so!

[Nolan]

Even here in America Stormfront is 10 times the size of RevLeft. Fascists are definite players in the anti-culture of Europe. If they were nothing would Revleft's antifas secetion be so rabid?

Why stormfront is bigger is not a secret.

1. They have had greater media coverage.

2. They've been around longer.

3. They're closer to the political mainstream. Racism is still firmly entrenched in some parts of society

4.They are being monitored by almost every government. We, on the other hand, are off the radar for all but possibly the U.S. and U.K.

5. The left has not taken advantage of the possibilities of the internet as thoroughly as the right. Most leftists have never heard of Revleft, whereas Stormfront is common knowledge among the fash. We need to advertise.

[Wolf Larson]

Looks like there is no let up in the criminalisation of communism. Though the regimes during that period where working under the guise of communism and not in the name and ideology of communism, no doubt this will be used as a good propaganda tool for right wing scum.

Right wing scum will not let their elite adversaries be prosecuted so long as there is a small chance capitalism will go out of favor in their lifetime. I'm surprised they went after the NAZI's. Glad but surprised. Besides it's very ungentlemanly to execute fellow elitists. Why do you think Napoleon was put on an island in lieu of being hung?

Did Tony Blair get off the hook yet? I haven't been paying attention to the dog and pony show.

[Wolf Larson]

Why stormfront is bigger is not a secret.

1. They have had greater media coverage.

2. They've been around longer.

3. They're closer to the political mainstream. Racism is still firmly entrenched in some parts of society

4.They are being monitored by almost every government. We, on the other hand, are off the radar for all but possibly the U.S. and U.K.

5. The left has not taken advantage of the possibilities of the internet as thoroughly as the right. Most leftists have never heard of Revleft, whereas Stormfront is common knowledge among the fash. We need to advertise.
Explain that in this thread:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/should-have-been-t129897/index.html?p=1684559#post1684559

[RGacky3]

Is it a hypocritical to not include United States and British Imperialist crimes against humanity? Most definately.

Did Lenininst regiems comming crimes against humanity? Yes they did.

Is this a set back for the movement? Only if your part of a Lenin fellating movement that wants a USSR style system. But not for me, not for most Leftists.

[Green Dragon]

Still, if you're a capitalist, it's dangerous to be in a position where your power is so fragile that any serious challenger could overthrow you. Even if you have no serious opposition today, who knows what might happen tomorrow? You can't just sit around and hope that no challenger comes along. You have to do something to strengthen your position. That's what this criminalization of communism is all about.


Its probably more along the lines recognising what Communism what did, understanding what they are about, and taking steps to ensure the disaster never repeats itself.

[Zanthorus]

Its probably more along the lines recognising what Communism what did, understanding what they are about, and taking steps to ensure the disaster never repeats itself.

Maybe you could tell us what commmunism did, is about and what disaster they don't want to repeat again?

[Comrade Anarchist]

This is purposeless. Everyone knows that communist regimes have killed millions. Holding a bunch of fuck-tards on trial for murders that have been committed for over 60 years is just stupid. The idea of governments condemning governments is fucking hilarious considering all governments lead to moscow. Can you read into what im saying? They all become weapons of the mob leading to the sacrificing of individuals for the benefit of others.

[IcarusAngel]

^^ This coming from a guy who advocates corporate feudalism.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

what Communism did
I wasn't aware that abstract ideas could take action and do things. Talking about "communism" doing stuff is like declaring war on "terror."

[RGacky3]

Can you read into what im saying? They all become weapons of the mob leading to the sacrificing of individuals for the benefit of others.

Yeah, you'd prefer the "mob" being sacrificed for the few individuals.

[Nolan]

This is purposeless. Everyone knows that communist regimes have killed millions.

Argumentum ad populum. And how do they know that?


Holding a bunch of fuck-tards on trial for murders that have been committed for over 60 years is just stupid. The idea of governments condemning governments is fucking hilarious considering all governments lead to moscow. Can you read into what im saying? They all become weapons of the mob leading to the sacrificing of individuals for the benefit of others.

No. You're an idiot. Please leave Revleft.