Self-defense in schools: Yay or Nay?

[Uppercut]

Me and a couple of my friends (one's a neocon) were talking about how we could improve our educational system. He recommended a mandatory gun safety course, which is a pretty good idea, I'll give him that.
I brought up self-defense and argued that it should be taught in schools (possibly in gym class) so students will be able to defend themselves if they ever happen to be attacked, whether in school or out of school.

Now, my other friend (a liberal) argued that it would just descend into chaos if we do that. "Do you really want the gangsters and the bullies to learn to to beat kids up? You're being too optimistic, it's a bad idea, you're wrong, just drop it, etc., etc.."
I then argued that there's a difference between actually fighting and defending yourself, and that we cannot always rely on the cops or the teachers/principles to fix our problems for us. Personally, I think it would be a major step forward if us students were trained in basic self-defense for later in life. It's also a great way to combat domestic disturbances and teach a generation of mothers how to defend themselves against criminals and abusive husbands/partners. Plus, I honestly don't believe it would slip into chaos. The way I look at it is if every kid knew how to fend for themselves, nobody would want to get into scuffles, knowing that the other person is prepared to fight back.

So comrades, tell me what you think. Is self-defense training in schools a good or bad idea?

[Dr Mindbender]

absolutely yay. If my school had taken a more pro active stance on self defence i probably couldve carried myself around in the playground a bit better and wouldve avoided a few ego bruising encounters in later life. I really dont understand why anyone would object to people knowing how to defend themselves from random predatory dickheads.

[Uppercut]

absolutely yay. If my school had taken a more pro active stance on self defence i probably couldve carried myself around in the playground a bit better and wouldve avoided a few ego bruising encounters in later life. I really dont understand why anyone would object to people knowing how to defend themselves from random predatory dickheads.

Well, they assume that certain assholes will abuse their training and just go around breaking peoples' arms. Lol I think it's a pretty bullshit argument, myself. Most bullies just pick on people that don't know how to defend themselves. If they did, we'd probably see a lot less fighting in our schools.

[Kuppo Shakur]

This obviously gets a yea from me. It's the same as the anti-gun restriction argument: If you attempt to take away the power of defense from everyone, only the people likely to abuse that power will attain it. Giving everyone that power is certainly the more logical solution, and will help these people down the road, in case they encounter muggers or something.

[The Red Next Door]

Yay but Martial Arts only.

[Demogorgon]

Quite apart from the danger you will end up making the violent kids more violent, you aren't actually going to benefit the less tough kids. You will just give them a class they will hate.

Not to mention teaching people to fight sort of goes against the policies schools have concerning violence. Such classes would be widely seen to sanction fighting and would send a mixed message and many kids would see it as deeply unfair when they are suspended or expelled for using a skill the school taught them.

[FreeFocus]

Everyone should be training actively in self-defense anyway. I'm not sure if schools are the venue for that, however.

Also, when I read the thread title, I thought you were referring to students having the right to defend themselves from teachers paddling them, which is still legal in some places, believe it or not.

[Invincible Summer]

At my high school, we had segregated PE classes. The girls learned self-defense, but the guys didn't. I always thought that was kind of sexist.

[bailey_187]

We had some Judo guy come in to teach us self-defense in PE in year 10 or 11. Your Liberal friend was right, it did descend into chaos and no one learnt any of the moves. But it was fun fighting everyone.

So i say: Yes!

[Comrade Gwydion]

Nay.

Even more nay on gun-course. School is not the fucking army. We should not promote violence to be something positive.

[bailey_187]

Nay.

Even more nay on gun-course. School is not the fucking army. We should not promote violence to be something positive.

You dont think Communists should learn these things though?

[The Vegan Marxist]

Most definitely Yay! Also, in reality, we must also learn to help teach students to defend themselves from abusive school cops, because there's been a good amount of police abuse taking place within public schools & universities.

[Uppercut]

Quite apart from the danger you will end up making the violent kids more violent, you aren't actually going to benefit the less tough kids. You will just give them a class they will hate.

How do you know that they will hate self-defense? If anything, they may get a much-deserved confidence boost knowing that they will be prepared if anything happens to them down the road.


Not to mention teaching people to fight sort of goes against the policies schools have concerning violence. Such classes would be widely seen to sanction fighting and would send a mixed message and many kids would see it as deeply unfair when they are suspended or expelled for using a skill the school taught them.

Well first off, it's not technically fighting. Fighting is when one person deliberately attacks another. Self-defense is learning to PREVENT fighting. And if someone does happen to misuse a skill on a friend or a random student, that student should be dealt with. I don't think these scenarios will appear that often, though, as everybody will be armed with the same techniques. People won't go around beating the shit out of each other, knowing full well that the other person is going to retaliate with hesitating.

[FreeFocus]

Proper martial arts training places a strong emphasis on discipline and respect. Not only would bullies be engaging in aggression, but if they were using techniques learned from a martial art, they'd be disrespecting the art. I just don't think this "self-defense" instruction would work well in anything lower than a college environment. Maybe as a high school elective or club, but most likely not as anything mandatory that everyone takes. It just wouldn't be complete instruction.

[Demogorgon]

How do you know that they will hate self-defense? If anything, they may get a much-deserved confidence boost knowing that they will be prepared if anything happens to them down the road.

I don't know how it is in America, but in this country, taking part in "rough" sports is pretty much a compulsory part of the early secondary curriculum and the less tough kids always hate it. Given you want them to take part in an even rougher "sport" I think it is pretty safe to say they won't find it much fun.


Well first off, it's not technically fighting. Fighting is when one person deliberately attacks another. Self-defense is learning to PREVENT fighting. And if someone does happen to misuse a skill on a friend or a random student, that student should be dealt with. I don't think these scenarios will appear that often, though, as everybody will be armed with the same techniques. People won't go around beating the shit out of each other, knowing full well that the other person is going to retaliate with hesitating.If that were true there would never be any war. You seem to be under the impression that everybody will be equally good at this "self defence" which is patently absurd. If anything what these classes would do would be to emphasise which kids aren't any good at fighting and identify soft targets.

[Robocommie]

You dont think Communists should learn these things though?

Communists yes, but they should train with their revolutionary cadres, not in schools. High school should be for reading books, making friends and getting ready for college. Introducing firearms training would be like turning the schools into some kind of Hitler Youth program.

However, I do think a martial arts program would be beneficial. Martial arts can be good for building character, and it's a good fitness exercise, and it's never a bad idea to teach people, especially young women, to defend themselves.

[Quail]

I would agree with martial arts classes, but it might be unwise to have it specifically for self-defense because until you get very good at a martial art (assuming it's one that teaches actual self-defense and is not just a sport) you're unlikely to be able to use the techniques properly or effectively in a real, unexpected situation. So in that way it could possibly give people false confidence and make them less cautious about making safe plans to get around. Of course, another issue at the moment is that students would need to get insurance for martial arts because they're so dangerous, which might not be realistic for schools to do.
Having said that though, martial arts are a good and most importantly, fun, way to get fit, as well as upping people's confidence and giving them tools to defend themselves.

[RedSonRising]

Some experimentation would be nice first. We can all make intuitive assumptions about what might happen if self-defense were taught at school, but a few behavioral case studies would help us better predict whether or not this policy would be largely positive or negative.

I personally think that basic self defense in physical education would benefit and empower students and level the playing field against bullies. Immediate action against bullies and strict non-initiative violence rules would have to correspond with the pumping of martial arts knowledge into the student body, but it would probably solve the bully problem, not perpetuate it.

Guns are too far in my opinion, with the exception of a rifle sports team. The mere presence of weapons has been shown to increase aggression in individuals...the militaristic implications aren't appropriate for a school environment, and the risk of accidents or access to firearms with harmful intentions from any student outweighs any benefit of having a student population of of gun-trained children.