So why is emigration illegal in Cuba?

[Drace]

I had an argument with someone over the controversy of the Cuban revolution.

While I was able to argue that it accomplished many things, that it was supported vastly by Cubans and the destruction of the Embargo, I was unable to answer why Cuba restricted travel to its citizens.

He argued that the strict emigration laws were completely repressive, that if people wanted to leave, they should be able to.
And that the benefits of the Revolution meant nothing if the government had to force its people to stay inside. That the laws would not be necessary if people didn't want to leave.

While many other countries practice the same emigration laws (having to get permission from the government to leave), he had a point. Its hard to say why Cuba would even restrict people from leaving if it had no necessity to.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Well, if Cuba uses the same policy that used to be in place in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, then emigration is not illegal. It's just expensive. The policy was that if you wanted to emigrate, you had to repay the state for the cost of your education (which you got for free). This was to avoid a brain drain.

Also, Cubans have more freedom to travel than many people realize. Just last summer I met a Cuban who was on vacation in the United States (he had to travel via Mexico, I think, because there is no direct travel between Cuba and the US). The only government he was worried about was the US government.

[Dermezel]

First, let's start with some empirical data: Is emigration illegal in Cuba? Is it expensive? Does anyone have any data on this?

[Dermezel]

because Castro allowed anyone who desired to leave the country to do so through the port of Mariel. Over 125,000 Cubans emigrated to the U.S. before the flow of vessels ended on 15 June

This is what I have found so far.

[Drace]

Well, from what I read, you need government permission to leave Cuba.

Also, apparently its a 3 year sentence if they catch you fleeing illegally, and 6 month if you are even heard talking about emigration.

Also, why do people have to leave by cheap sail boats then?

[Jazzratt]

Well, from what I read, you need government permission to leave Cuba.

How difficult is it to get such permission, do you know? Is it simply a case of most people getting rubber-stamped when they want to leave or of all but the most extrodinary cases being rejected?


Also, apparently its a 3 year sentence if they catch you fleeing illegally, and 6 month if you are even heard talking about emigration.

In the case of the sentence for trying to leave the country illegally I would consider it strange if they didn't have a method for punishing people who are, at the end of the day, breaking the (arbitrary and stupid) laws of the land. The 6 month sentence for "talking about emigration" is possibly the most transparent lie about Cuba I've ever read with the possible exception of the claim that there are no books there (yeah, fucking seriously).

[Nolan]

It isn't illegal. You just have to get state permission. There's a user on here now from Cuba, barbaro, who came legally.

[Outinleftfield]

Maybe in theory these countries would grant you permission as long as paid up for your education,
BUT
Considering the corruption and lack of accountability in most state capitalist countries I wouldn't be surprised if politics affects this more often than not. If they don't like you or they think you might say bad stuff about their country when you leave they probably wouldn't let you leave, unless you really really got on their case and then if they decided not to execute or throw you in jail you'd get kicked out. There was even a Czech protester who protested so much and was stirring up so much trouble the Czechoslovak dictator offered him deportation in exchange for prison but he turned it down because he was committed to his cause.

This might be a problem more or less depending on the government. Cuba has some issues but all in all its human rights is better than the US. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the time in Cuba if you got the education money to pay you're good to go (and I'm sure there's plenty of banks in the US who would be happy to give them loans if they don't have it right away).

[Comrade B]

In the communist manifesto it is very clearly stated that the property of emigrants and rebels must be confiscated.
In communism, their property belongs to the people. While Cuba is not a pure socialist country, it is trying to protect it's peoples' wealth.

[Comrade Anarchist]

It has to or else everyone would leave b/c there is only so many times you can see a 1950 chevy pulled by a donkey before you go fuck this.

[Drace]

It has to or else everyone would leave b/c there is only so many times you can see a 1950 chevy pulled by a donkey before you go fuck this.

Just this: :laugh:

[Comrade B]

It has to or else everyone would leave b/c there is only so many times you can see a 1950 chevy pulled by a donkey before you go fuck this.
As we always see happening in Cuba... no wait, that is Borat...

[Valeofruin]

Indeed, well, we can not forget the late 70's - early 80's... mariel boatlift... tons of people were not only allowed to leave but some were even deported... Cubas emigration policy is actually remarkably lax compared to other socialist nations.

As has been pointed out by other revleft users, cuba had to actually close its borders after leaving them wide open at the request of the us..

The amount of people that emigrated during this period was small... and the only reason people continue to emigrate is the us policy of accepting them without conditions, something mexicans no doubt would be thrilled to have. This all means a portion of those that come over are refugees and criminals, or have family here or something.

[R_P_A_S]

It's not illegal to emigrate. It's very expensive and the majority of Cubans don't have money to go on international vacations. I know a girl who moved to Spain and her Cuban parents go visit her once a year to Spain. They aren't as poor as most Cubans so they can afford it. But when I met them in 2008 they told me they had to wait almost 2 years to get a Visa to travel to Spain.

I remember when I lived in Mexico my mother tried 3 times to get us a Visa to emigrate to the US... The process is expensive and time consuming finally after a little over a year WITH A LETTER from my father who was a "Resident Alien" we were able to get a 5 year Visa to the U.S.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

A lot of claims made here but not one source to back them up.

Does anyone have any evidence of all this? Surely if you "read it somewhere" you could tell us where?

[Sam Da Communist]

The bourgeois and educated would want to leave to become the exploiters overseas.

And just like what somone said, criminals and other screwed up people would want to leave.

I'm sure not many people want to leave cuba, but want to move in.

Many people leave, and then end up being the proletariat, and i bet they want to go back. the same with the vietnamese refugees that left vietnam.

[Vanguard1917]

There are permanent restrictions on people leaving the country in Cuba, along with an abundance of other repressive laws, because Cuba is a tin-pot dictatorship of parasite bureaucrats in Havana who view the Cuban masses with distrust and, quite often, contempt.

[Sam Da Communist]

There are permanent restrictions on people leaving the country in Cuba, along with an abundance of other repressive laws, because Cuba is a tin-pot dictatorship of parasite bureaucrats in Havana who view the Cuban masses with distrust and, quite often, contempt.

But they have a good reason though, opening up migration would be harmful to a country so small, and freedom of migration should be there in the anarchist and pure communism stages.

International revolution would be nice, that is what cuba is waiting for.

PS. And you are a left comm i see, and you like sylvia, thats ok. a hate most of the pankhurst family, they are so screwed mate. Adela pankhurst (our aussie communist) became a fascist! her mother was a british conservative imperialist and sister a conservative christian, and sylvia was a left communist. And all were feminist.

[LeftSideDown]

The bourgeois and educated would want to leave to become the exploiters overseas.

And just like what somone said, criminals and other screwed up people would want to leave.

I'm sure not many people want to leave cuba, but want to move in.

Many people leave, and then end up being the proletariat, and i bet they want to go back. the same with the vietnamese refugees that left vietnam.

An interesting link about Cuba and immigration/emigration called: CUBA: Why Some Leave, or Want to, and Others Stay
By Dalia Acosta