Advice for a political newbie

[JacobVardy]

A friend of mine in the US is going to be be going to his first political meeting: a 'socialist club' is starting on his campus. Without knowing anymore than this i advised:

meeting other lefties is always good;

ideologues can not always be avoided, just try to ignore them;

and, anyone who proposes something obviously illegal is probably a cop.

Any other suggestions?

[Jia]

Try to tell him he doesn't have to agree with everything they say just because they are leftist. A problem I had at a younger age was I became factionalism and simply agreed with everything and my mind didn't say any different. It would be good for him to speak out and challenge and ask questions on the views put forward, so he can understand them more greatly.

[scarletghoul]

I agree with the above poster that its important to ask questions. Socialists are ALWAYS happy to educate people

ideologues can not always be avoided, just try to ignore them;
No. It's important to understand peoples idealogical differances (i think thats what you mean?) to get a fuller understandng of things in general. Don't let these differances split everything up, but don't ignore them either because they exist for a reason.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

Don't let yourself be pressured into joining a group unless you're completely sure you agree with their ideas and tactics.

[RED DAVE]

The most important thing is to see how they are relating to the working class.

If the talk about foreign countries more than the US, talk about the student movement or identity politics or community organizing more than working in and with the working class, it's a sure bet they're a petit-bourgeois group.

RED DAVE

[mollymae]

No. It's important to understand peoples idealogical differances (i think thats what you mean?) to get a fuller understandng of things in general. Don't let these differances split everything up, but don't ignore them either because they exist for a reason.

As long as the people with different opinions are not only there to be obnoxious.

[StalinFanboy]

The most important thing is to see how they are relating to the working class.

If the talk about foreign countries more than the US, talk about the student movement or identity politics or community organizing more than working in and with the working class, it's a sure bet they're a petit-bourgeois group.

RED DAVE
yes cause students aren't working class, right?



stuuupid

[whore]

good first suggestions in the first post. think for yourself is another great bit of advice.

dont be afraid of disagreeing, and not going ahead with something. if a group wants to organize in a manner which you disagree, or against/for somehing, and you disagree, dont be afraid to not be part of that

if some asshole questions your commitment to the group, ignore them, and/or leave the group. if they question your commitment to socialism, tell them to fuck off, and that their opinions are wrong. oh, and fuck off.

[mikelepore]

ideologues can not always be avoided, just try to ignore them;

That would be everybody in the world, since "it's necessary to do x" and "it's not necessary to do x" are equally "ideological."

[RED DAVE]

The most important thing is to see how they are relating to the working class.

If the talk about foreign countries more than the US, talk about the student movement or identity politics or community organizing more than working in and with the working class, it's a sure bet they're a petit-bourgeois group.
yes cause students aren't working class, right?(1) The social class of students is, in general, the class of their families.

(2) What I am referring to is working with the working class as a working class, not as students, community members, members of the armed forces, etc., which means, primarily union and workplace organizing and working with the unemployed.

RED DAVE

[The Ungovernable Farce]

(1) The social class of students is, in general, the class of their families.

(2) What I am referring to is working with the working class as a working class, not as students, community members, members of the armed forces, etc., which means, primarily union and workplace organizing and working with the unemployed.

RED DAVE
Do you really not see community struggles as being a vital part of class struggle? I thought pretty much everyone accepted that. What about this (http://libcom.org/news/victory-seasol-tenants-kasota-01022010) or the Movement for Justice in el Barrio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movement_for_Justice_en_el_Barrio)? Clearly important, direct class struggles, but nothing to do with workplace organising.

[RED DAVE]

(1) The social class of students is, in general, the class of their families.

(2) What I am referring to is working with the working class as a working class, not as students, community members, members of the armed forces, etc., which means, primarily union and workplace organizing and working with the unemployed.
Do you really not see community struggles as being a vital part of class struggle?No, I don't, especially not in an early period like. I have extensive experience with community organizing, going back to the rent strike struggles of the 1960s. Community organizing, in the absence of another movement, are not effective methods of organizing mass working class movements, recruiting to revolutionary organizations, etc. Over a period of time, what happens is that the organization ends up doing, essentially, social work.


I thought pretty much everyone accepted that.Not so and for very good reasons.


What about this or the Movement for Justice in el Barrio? Clearly important, direct class struggles, but nothing to do with workplace organizing.In my experience, again, in the absence of a larger movement, such work tends to be labor intensive, short-term and ephemeral. Practically every left group around, from the Socialist Party to Progressive Labor, ERAP, CORE, etc., did community organizing during a time when there was a mass, working class based civil rights movement and an antiwar movement. Not one of them was able to build a movement that lasted long and burn-out was common.

The essence of working class work is that workers have power: they are organized at the workplace and have the ability through strikes, work actions, etc., to exercise that power. Workers as tenants have no such power. Rent strikes, unless they are backed up with a mass movement, probably the labor movement, end up being bogged down in the courts.

RED DAVE

[JacobVardy]

No. It's important to understand peoples idealogical differances (i think thats what you mean?) to get a fuller understandng of things in general. Don't let these differances split everything up, but don't ignore them either because they exist for a reason.

True, i'll emphasise that to Brendan. What i meant by 'ideologues' is people who refuse to allow others to disagree with them.

And thanks to everyone else for the advice.