second Industrial Revolution?

[La Comédie Noire]

Today, Lovins argues, that situation is reversed: we have too many axes, but we are running out of trees. Hence, we need a Second Industrial Revolution which will reflect these changed realities. Just as the First Industrial Revolution got 200 times more productivity out of each worker, the Second Industrial Revolution will get 200 times more efficiency out of its raw materials.

http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/2005/11/169-future-gets-complicated.html

The author recognizes this could have profound social and political effects, which he calls "Neo Capitalism"(obviously he suffers from a lack of imagination)Putting that aside, what do you think this could mean for the possibility of Communism?

In fact let this be an open invitation to share what you consider significant advances in the means of production.

[pranabjyoti]

What Mr. Lovins actually calling for is a social revolution, without which the industrial revolution can not take place. We can extract atmospheric heat and can convert that into electricity and thus can get nearly unlimited energy without harming the environment. We can have the scientific basis of growing crops without soil and thus we can return the most the world to the other species. But, that social structure need to be drastically different from the social structure of today to contain that scientific and technological progress.

[Dr Mindbender]

I think before there is a 'second industrial revolution' there needs to be a 'second renaissance' of sorts, ie. a rebirth of thinking of life without capitalism. I think most people agree that capitalism is flawed and needs to go, the problem is too few people can agree on what to replace it with which is why we're stuck with it. Our entire relationship with industry is based upon the mechanics of scarcity distribution. So a second industrial revolution under those terms will be meaningless to most people.

[ComradeOm]

I'm afraid its already happened (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Industrial_Revolution) ;)


Lovins is on the right track because, as JD says, our current society is appallingly wasteful. In the book Natural Capitalism, Lovins and his co-authors give countless examples of how to eliminate this waste with a combination of new technologies, better design, new cultural attitudes and pure common sense. Lovins reckons that pretty much everything produced by industry today is very badly designed, which is true. Examples of good design include the Prius, this custom-made fridge, and the book Cradle to Cradle, which is made not out of paper but from a water-resistant synthetic material derived from plastic resins and inorganic fillers. (Link: http://www.mcdonough.com/cradle_to_cradle.htm).Which is pretty much bullshit. Most devices/products in the world today are extremely well designed, as are the manufacturing systems that produced them. The difference is that they are designed to (ultimately) minimise cost... but then such mundane economic concerns are of no interest to the author

[bcbm]

The author recognizes this could have profound social and political effects, which he calls "Neo Capitalism"(obviously he suffers from a lack of imagination)

i think you're being too generous. it isn't a lack of imagination, but exactly the opposite. capital has pushed itself almost as far as it can go in its current manifestation, so the ruling class and their theorists are determining how to reorganize the system while holding on to power. if we can learn anything from past reorganizations, it is that we should be extremely skeptical of these developments and do everything in our power to destroy capital before they can be enacted.

[AK]

Hell, what you're asking for is just plain old communist revolution.

[pranabjyoti]

Actually, what Mr. Lovins is advocating is just slight improvement over the present day available products and technologies. He had no idea about real breakthroughs that can really make difference.

[La Comédie Noire]

Actually, what Mr. Lovins is advocating is just slight improvement over the present day available products and technologies. He had no idea about real breakthroughs that can really make difference.

What breakthroughs do you have in mind?

[pranabjyoti]

What breakthroughs do you have in mind?
First, use of atmospheric heat as the source of electricity. US patent no 6,938,422 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6938422.PN.&OS=PN/6938422&RS=PN/6938422) is just the beginning. There are a lot more efficient ways of extracting atmospheric heat. Moreover, the possibility of hydroponic agriculture, with which we can grow almost any fruit or crop or vegetable anywhere in the world.