Gems of Mises.org

[Agnapostate]

In the spirit of the "Gems of Stormfront" thread, let's present the gems of mises.org! My most recent favorite... (http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/14487.aspx)


Hello all, long-time mises.org fan first time poster here. If you’re short on time, just skip to the last paragraph.

As an Austro-libertarian student, I am something of an oddball amongst the teeming masses of hippies and statist do-gooders that dominate the college scene here in Tally. I enjoy being an outsider to the extent that it differentiates me from the conformists, but I’m having a bit of a problem.

As many of you may know, community college is kind of like the thirteenth grade. Many people attend it because they do not have the credentials or the willpower or whatever is necessary to attend a four-year university. The one I attend is more of a place for social interaction than an institution of higher learning. I know some folks who go there just to mope around and could care less about their academic futures. Many of these people have vociferous opinions on a wide range of issues. They are very zealous but very uneducated.

Given these conditions, how is one to debate? I regularly engage people in friendly arguments, but once I bring up ideas above the level of high school economics courses people start to look at me with contempt. Anything intellectual is “uncool.” Emotion-based rhetoric (epitomized by President Obama and talk radio) is the only socially-acceptable method of argument. I like being an outsider, but if social exile is the price of espousing liberty-minded ideas then I’m not sure if it is worth the pain. Humans are social creatures, and if I am to spend the next few semesters with these bozos then I need to at least find a way of connecting with them lest I turn into a cave-dwelling hermit.

So how does one debate the willfully ignorant? How does one make the ideas of Mises and Rothbard appealing to an underachiever who considers wearing his pants around his knees to be the epitome of coolness? Or is it worth even trying? Should I just shut up and stop trying to convert people for the time being?

GODDAMN IT, WHY WON'T THESE STUPID IDIOT LOSERS THAT I HATE SO MUCH REALIZE THAT I'M RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG?!!! JUST BECAUSE I PLAY WORLD OF WARCRAFT EVERY WAKING HOUR OF MY LIFE DOESN'T MEAN THAT I'M NOT COOL TOO!!!

http://forums.youthrights.org/images/smilies/lol.gif http://forums.youthrights.org/images/smilies/lol.gif http://forums.youthrights.org/images/smilies/lol.gif

[RHIZOMES]

How does one make the ideas of Mises and Rothbard appealing to an underachiever who considers wearing his pants around his knees to be the epitome of coolness?

i.e. how do we make Rothbard and Mises appeal to people who aren't middle-class or white?

[Nolan]

I think we all need to accept the fact that society would just be better off if we got rid of the undesirables.
http://lighthousepatriotjournal.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/adolf-hitler_02.jpg


No wait, the economy would collapse from lack of workers. Silly libertarians.

[Nolan]

i.e. how do we make Rothbard and Mises appeal to people who aren't middle-class or white?

Dunno if it'll work, but I gotta plan:

http://standupforamerica.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fox-news-logo.jpg

[Agnapostate]

If you cannot precisely answer the above questions, then your belief is mythical in nature.

I guess knowledge of appeals to ignorance would require study of basic logic.

[Chambered Word]

As many of you may know, community college is kind of like the thirteenth grade. Many people attend it because they do not have the credentials or the willpower or whatever is necessary to attend a four-year university. The one I attend is more of a place for social interaction than an institution of higher learning. I know some folks who go there just to mope around and could care less about their academic futures.

Explains why he's at community college then.

[Tower of Bebel]

http://lighthousepatriotjournal.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/adolf-hitler_02.jpg


No wait, the economy would collapse from lack of workers. Silly libertarians.
:laugh::laugh: Great!

[Raúl Duke]

i.e. how do we make Rothbard and Mises appeal to people who aren't middle-class or white?


No wait, the economy would collapse from lack of workers. Silly libertarians.

QFT

They talk of the corporate class as the "productive class" is so inane and down-right stupid. It's people like me who get the job done (well I don't work in manufacturing...but if it weren't for my co-workers and me no tele-surveys would be done), those people they consider "productive class" just issue orders and rake obscene amount of profits using all sorts of profit-maximizing schemes that only work in the short-term while causing economic crisis in the long-term; not to mention that it usually screws everyone else both short-term and long-term.


I enjoy being an outsider to the extent that it differentiates me from the conformists


I actually dislike these kind of people...they're like the "anti-conformists" but they're as rediculous as the conformists because, despite how much they want to be "unique", they have the same fixation unto mainstream and/or popular culture as the "conformists" just that they direct it in the opposite direction.


Humans are social creatures, and if I am to spend the next few semesters with these bozos then I need to at least find a way of connecting with them lest I turn into a cave-dwelling hermit.

Than don't focus all your interactions around politics, simple as.

I actually enjoy my time being with "non-political" (i.e. as in political talk is rarely discusses or an aspect of our relationship) people more than the liberal/environmentalist activist people on my campus; they just tire me.

[Misanthrope]

No wait, the economy would collapse from lack of workers. Silly libertarians.

I had someone on that website tell me that an economy could work fine without labor

:laugh:

[Dimentio]

I had someone on that website tell me that an economy could work fine without labor

:laugh:

Then why have capitalism?

[Os Cangaceiros]

You guys are just jealous that you're not of the Übermensch-caliber that the fine folks on the Mises.org discussion forum are.

Start achieving, you losers!

[RHIZOMES]

Dunno if it'll work, but I gotta plan:

http://standupforamerica.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fox-news-logo.jpg

Fox News biggest audience is reactionary middle-class white people though.

[Agnapostate]

Fox News biggest audience is reactionary middle-class white people though.

True. "Reactionary" is kind of an understatement for Misesians.

[jake williams]

Fox News biggest audience is reactionary middle-class white people though.
Uh I don't know what I think of the use of the term "middle class" here. As far as I know there's a big chunk of people that cut across a broad spectrum of society who just watches for entertainment and doesn't really take it seriously. Those that do are probably more working class than "middle class", but I don't know of any studies off hand (I'm sure they exist).

[LOLseph Stalin]

I don't have an exact quote, but I once saw on a site(not mises.org) where a libertarian was saying that "friendships" are a social contract based on supply & demand. So in other words, "friends" are no use unless you can profit from the relationship(I think that's what he meant). :laugh: I'm not sure if he was serious or not, but I'm hoping it wasn't serious...

[jake williams]

I don't have an exact quote, but I once saw on a site(not mises.org) where a libertarian was saying that "friendships" are a social contract based on supply & demand. So in other words, "friends" are no use unless you can profit from the relationship(I think that's what he meant). :laugh: I'm not sure if he was serious or not, but I'm hoping it wasn't serious...
He was probably entirely serious. Those folks really are like that.

[LOLseph Stalin]

He was probably entirely serious. Those folks really are like that.

Yea. It's a really scary thought though. :blink:

[Raúl Duke]

Some of my friendships started out as unrestricted (i.e. I tended to give the most) mutual aid...

now some/one of those have become a more normal kind of somewhat best friends relationship, although we still help each other out.

[Jazzratt]

I don't have an exact quote, but I once saw on a site(not mises.org) where a libertarian was saying that "friendships" are a social contract based on supply & demand. So in other words, "friends" are no use unless you can profit from the relationship(I think that's what he meant). :laugh: I'm not sure if he was serious or not, but I'm hoping it wasn't serious...

You could say that about friends if you were either a sociopath or had only ever had the concept of friends explained to you without having had any friends yourself. Given the nature of the basement dwelling reject backbirths that post on libertarian forums either seems likely.

[Kléber]

its not from mises.org but i just heard one of the most reactionary songs ever. fucking back to the 1950's..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTvWSL1VdSM

[Agnapostate]

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/14606.aspx


Ever since Ron Paul introduced me to AE, I've found that I've not only increased my economic knowledge exponentially (to the point where I could refute certain arguments promulgated by economics professor with confidence), but I've also grown to love Libertarianism to the point where it's become a vested interest in my life (I just can't let it go and I'm an ardent defender of the libertarian philosophy). I not only find that I'm becoming more radical by the day, but essentially I'm pretty much preaching the libertarian creed to anyone that will listen to me. In class and at home I feel like I've pretty much become a libertarian spark plug, where every discussion always somehow becomes intertwined with libertarian thought.

Snobbish pomposity combined with the fervency of a cult member. No significant difference from Christian fundamentalists who angrily regurgitate talking points against evolutionary biology. :laugh:

[Raúl Duke]

but essentially I'm pretty much preaching the libertarian creed to anyone that will listen to me. In class and at home I feel like I've pretty much become a libertarian spark plug, where every discussion always somehow becomes intertwined with libertarian thought.

ugh

what a boring annoying person this must be...always yammering about politics and/or attempting to move conversations via political non sequitars


I've found that I've not only increased my economic knowledge exponentially (to the point where I could refute certain arguments promulgated by economics professor with confidence)

Doesn't surprise me...I found economics to be a lot of malarkey...it's probably the most ideologized social science that objectivity in any sense doesn't even exist in it...

[LOLseph Stalin]

Once again, it's not something from mises.org, but check out this gem from an american libertarian: "Republicans are socialist."

[Agnapostate]

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/14660.aspx

Young elitists pretending to be elderly and just as boring. :D

[Dimentio]

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/14660.aspx

Young elitists pretending to be elderly and just as boring. :D

That's so typical libertarians...

[RHIZOMES]

Aargh, why were Russian geniuses born to a country of peasantry too unintelligent and unworldly to appreciate their work? What a huge divide there was in that country back in those days.

Goddamn peasants not appreciating bourgeois art!! It's not like they didn't even attend operas or anything.

[bcbm]

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/14660.aspx

Young elitists pretending to be elderly and just as boring. :D

this guy seems to have the right idea...


Drink a bottle of Delsym and put on "Rite of Spring".

[Agnapostate]

This (https://mises.org/Community/forums/p/11308/259994.aspx) was an amusing one; I'd forgotten. In response to Peter Singer's proposal of increased voluntary donations to the poor:


The unintended consequences are a bunch of leeches who refuse to work for themselves and instead enjoy living off of others. Even more harmful would be a loss of incentives for African governments to reform and embrace capitalism.

A better solution would be to cut off all aid to Africa and instead allow free trade, investment, and hard work bring prosperity to Africans.


The thread is a very apt insight into the intellectual caliber of most mises.org posters.

[Nolan]

A better solution would be to cut off all aid to Africa and instead allow free trade, investment, and hard work bring prosperity to Africans.

Holy flying fuck. Is this person really that stupid?

[Chambered Word]

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/14660.aspx

Young elitists pretending to be elderly and just as boring. :D

Haha, oh wow! :D

[Dimentio]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Patrick_Bedell

Somehow, I am not surprised.

[Muzk]

Bedell also envisioned a system which required "billions and billions of carefully cultivated, highly valuable cannibis plants growing through the United States with complete security of property." This was to have been the basis for a proposed a new monetary system based on the value of a gram of cannabis.

its a shame that he died...

[Nolan]

its a shame that he died...

Dude he wasn't so bad :lol:

[Axle]

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/14660.aspx

Young elitists pretending to be elderly and just as boring. :D

That dude said Brahms was classical music and the former music major in me is foaming at the mouth because of it.

Lol, I'm so glad I switched majors.

[Raúl Duke]

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/14660.aspx

Young elitists pretending to be elderly and just as boring. :D

Reminds me of this libertarian in my campus...
He has alll this 40s era thing going on.
Based on him and this other guy, most libertarians seem like dorks...

[RHIZOMES]

Reminds me of this libertarian in my campus...
He has alll this 40s era thing going on.
Based on him and this other guy, most libertarians seem like dorks...

It's because they yearn for the days when mass popular culture was 99% white

[Jazzratt]

I don't know. You read Hayek, Mises, and Rothbard and everything seems so self evident you end up wanting to convince others of their validity and spread the "wealth" (of knowledge) so to speak. Its just sad that you can't... or maybe I can't.http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/haha_oh_wow.jpg

[HEAD ICE]

This isn't from Mises, but from a facebook conversation I had the displeasure of witnessing. The person's profile picture is some symbol for the Mises Institute, and he also has the nerve to have the Circle-A in his name:



Id have to disagree fully with you, Rahul. I highly suggest the book that Jacob recommended, Socialism, by Mises. Communism, or the public ownership of all goods, is an infeasible system because of what was mentioned. It is impossible to calculate prices for economic transactions because there is a single owner of those goods.

Let's refer to socialism because it is much easier to diagnose. The economic conditions under socialism would be identical under communism; it is merely that private property would be abolished all together under communism. Taken to it's logical conclusion, no one would own their own bodies and would, thus, be unable to resist organ harvesting or undesirable sexual advances. For instance, if some large fat girl came up to you and ordered you to have sex with her, you would be completely helpless to resist and would likely be arrested for resisting. As no person owns any private property, including their own body, you would be unable to refuse sex with anyone, including men. Your body is "communal" property.

Regardless, under socialism, the "public" owns the means of production. This means that it would be illegal for anyone to own any shovels, tools, screwdrivers, printing presses, bulldozers, etc privately. All capital goods would be owned publicly. As a result, there would be no exchange occurring and there would be no way to calculate prices. Prices comes about from the buying and selling of commodities in the hands of private individuals; if there is no exchange occurring, then there can be no catallactics, or the formation of prices.... See More

As a result, there would be no way to objectively determine the value of different goods. Should we pave the street with gold? Should we build trains from titanium? Should we allocate more labor towards building tractors or harvesting fields? Should we build larger houses or smaller ones? Should we invest in bathtubs, or do we have enough resources to do so?

Under communism/socialism, there can be no prices and therefore no rational way of allocating resources. All answers to the questions above would necessarily be arbitrary and meaningless. It would be like walking through life with a blindfold on, unable to determine how much to allocate where and being blind to the number of resources available for production/consumption.

Communism and socialism result in complete economic chaos, in addition to the immorality of and problems that come about through the concept of public property.

That's right folks, under communism, you will be forced to have sex with fat girls.

[Dimentio]

That takes the price...

[Raúl Duke]

The economic conditions under socialism would be identical under communism; it is merely that private property would be abolished all together under communism. Taken to it's logical conclusion, no one would own their own bodies and would, thus, be unable to resist organ harvesting or undesirable sexual advances. For instance, if some large fat girl came up to you and ordered you to have sex with her, you would be completely helpless to resist and would likely be arrested for resisting. As no person owns any private property, including their own body, you would be unable to refuse sex with anyone, including men. Your body is "communal" property.That person doesn't understand that communists/socialists don't view people/one's self as property...

That sort of view can allow the justification/legitimization of slavery. Which under libertarianism you could in theory bring back indentured servitude.

Mostly, leftists just don't hold those sort of views about one's self or hold a view of "self-autonomy."

If a fat girl forced you to have sex with them, what would happen is that the fat girl will be arrested for rape/attempted rape.


As a result, there would be no way to objectively determine the value of different goods. Should we pave the street with gold? Should we build trains from titanium? Should we allocate more labor towards building tractors or harvesting fields? Should we build larger houses or smaller ones? Should we invest in bathtubs, or do we have enough resources to do so?

Under communism/socialism, there can be no prices and therefore no rational way of allocating resources.Simple, in communism/socialism you have rational "central" planning

Neighborhood Assemblies/Communes/Regional Federation and/or Worker's Co-ops (those which have a stake at what's being discussed) make those decisions by discussing them and/or by vote.

[Robocommie]

Haha, I fucking love the OP's excerpt. "Hey guys, for some reason the kids who go to my community college, where I benefit from public funding, made fun of me for trying to talk to them about the benefits of free trade and no government programs. How can I convince them that it's their fault for being poor? I wish everyone were smart like me."

[Robocommie]

That's right folks, under communism, you will be forced to have sex with fat girls.

The maxim of the Austrian school: no fat chicks.

[Invincible Summer]

After reading all this stuff, who would possibly disagree with the Red Terror?

[Chambered Word]

That's right folks, under communism, you will be forced to have sex with fat girls.

There are worse things that I could be forced to do.

That Misean idiot sounds like a 11 year old trying to sound intelligent and educated. :rolleyes:

[Raightning]

Whenever a right-winger refers to a 'logical conclusion', you just know you're going to get a barrage of illogic coming up. ;)

[HEAD ICE]

The funny thing is most anarcho-capitalists happen to be either fat or obese.

[Jazzratt]

The funny thing is most anarcho-capitalists happen to be either fat or obese.

...and men. Rules are different for men - even if you're a fat fuck that subsists on pies and bacon you're still entitled to sex from astoundingly attractive women. :rolleyes:

[Chambered Word]

...and men. Rules are different for men - even if you're a fat fuck that subsists on pies and bacon you're still entitled to sex from astoundingly attractive women. :rolleyes:

I know how we're going to punish the ancaps after the revolution. :cool:

[Jazzratt]

I know how we're going to punish the ancaps after the revolution. :cool:

I'm not sure whether they'd feel more hard done by without sex or without pies, though.

[Robocommie]

...and men. Rules are different for men - even if you're a fat fuck that subsists on pies and bacon you're still entitled to sex from astoundingly attractive women. :rolleyes:

what have you got against pies

[Audeamus]

Pies and bacon is so inefficient. It's all about the bacon pies.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/RaptorJesus_02/bacon-apple-pie.jpg

[Revy]

I don't have the link for this one, but I had to search RevLeft to find where I quoted it, from an old thread. That's what I remember....I don't lurk there much, but a few minutes of lurking then was enough to see how ridiculous they are.


Invade a completely hopeless, run down, and destitute country and then proceed to free its economy. Freeing Haiti, for example, could finally bring it around to a modern economy. In fact, freeing Haiti would be enormously beneficial in showing that a black nation can lead the world in economic growth and prosperity as long as it follows free market principles. That and it would be a useful tax haven for Americans and Europeans.I found this one while searching on there for the post where one guy suggested organizing an army of 500,000 Mises soldiers to conquer Montana. it's not the same one, though.


Esuric (http://mises.org/Community/members/Esuric/default.aspx) replied on (http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/11679/264339.aspx#264339) Thu, Oct 29 2009 1:55 PM http://mises.org/Community/Themes/mises2008/images/common/5star-rating.png rated by 0 users (http://mises.org/Community/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fCommunity%2fforums%2fp%2f1 1679%2f264402.aspx)
http://mises.org/Community/Themes/mises2008/images/icon-quote.gif Snowflake:
There's no unclaimed land left to start a new America/Libertarian Society on. We're trapped on the planet with these people.
Perfect, Brilliant.
I say we move to Montana, you know, like an Austrian zionist type of movement.

[Jazzratt]

what have you got against pies

It's shorthand for "too much fucking food", as in that classic song "who ate all the pies?" (The answering, should you be wondering, is Miseans.)


Pies and bacon is so inefficient. It's all about the bacon pies.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/RaptorJesus_02/bacon-apple-pie.jpg

Melt some cheese on that motherfucker and it's pretty much perfect.

EDIT:

I found this one while searching on there for the post where one guy suggested organizing an army of 500,000 Mises soldiers to conquer Montan
Wouldn't that involve 1) finding 500,000 Miseans and 2) Dragging them from their basements?

[Audeamus]

Melt some cheese on that motherfucker and it's pretty much perfect.


I prefer my bacon pies without coronary events.

[Robocommie]

I prefer my bacon pies without coronary events.

There's a bacon pie that doesn't cause a coronary? I mean, my god man. It's a bacon pie.

[Jazzratt]

I prefer my bacon pies without coronary events.

More fool you.

[Audeamus]

There's a bacon pie that doesn't cause a coronary? I mean, my god man. It's a bacon pie.

My heart can take a beating, but it's only so strong. Besides I hate cheese in most circumstances. :p

[Agnapostate]

The "an"-caps invariably discuss actual anarchism, some of them being audacious enough to declare anarchist communism, a legitimate ideology as opposed to their pathetic fraud, an "oxymoron." This particular exchange was amusing. http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/5131.aspx


For a brilliant rather recent (1970) book by a "leftist" anarchist, see:

Robert P. Wolff, In defence of anarchism; which is a Kantian vindication of anarchism on purely analytical grounds, and an unattackable jewel of a book.

Incidentaly, Rothbard did congratulate the author on the book, which lead Wolff (a neo-marxist) to publicly dissociate himself from libertarianism -;(

Still, it is really worth a read!

The "so moronic it's hilarious" part comes in the next post:


Could my opinion of these individuals drop any lower? Dissociate himself? He should be happy he could even be associated with a guy like Rothbard in the first place. What a degenerate, worthless person (yes, yes, I know... his book is probably good.)

B...but...my daddy's the strongest, smartest man in the world! How dare actual anarchists, with their 130 years (at the time) of history and legitimate existence outside of an intellectual seminar not fall on his face before an economically idiotic two bit statist like Murray, who himself said that he wasn't an anarchist! Damn their oily hides! :lol:

[Bilan]

Jesus-fuck. Some of these people are incredibly daft.

[HEAD ICE]

What is even sadder is when "an"-caps learn about the historical figures of anarchism and comment on them. I can't find the video right now, but some guy on youtube was told to learn who Bakunin was, and he proceeded to make a video saying that the reason Bakunin was a socialist was because he was from "Soviet Russia", and that Bakunin was against "bloody revolution."

Here is the video, which is a great example of video recorded insanity. You have been warned, this man is legitimately nuts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcuygGoffMk

[black magick hustla]

hey cut off the whole "sex with fat chicks" thing. that is really mean. this is a verbal warning.

[Agnapostate]

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/14007.aspx

:laugh:

[GPDP]

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/14007.aspx

:laugh:

Le sigh.