Juche - What's the deal?

[Invincible Summer]

So I'm sort of lost as to what Juche is really about. I understand that it's primarily focused on national self-sufficiency, but is the whole "Dear Leader" thing part of it too? What is a summary of the "official" Juche "constitution" or equivalent?

Here are some questions that I understand will have differing answers based on tendency, but I guess that's okay I'm mainly looking for the perspective from Marxist-Leninists and Maoists.

- How does Juche differ from Socialism in One Country?
- Some characterize Juche as "Korean Maoism" (I'm assuming due to its Asiatic origins and "cult of personality"). Is this a fair characterization? Why?
- Does Juche promote the notion of internationalism/furthering international revolution?

And some less Juche-related questions:
- Why does Kim Jong-Il seem to have a stronger "personality cult" than other leaders (e.g. Mao)? Is it mostly Western propaganda? Whereas Mao and Stalin fought against these personality cults and denounced them (to an extent), as well as had internal party struggles over power, these sorts of things don't seem to be reported to be happening in the DPRK (even by fellow comrades). Is the DPRK "more authoritarian?"

[Dimentio]

Juche doesn't have too much to do with maoism except that they originated in the same region. Juche is basically a fake ideology which only exist to motivate why the Kims should be in power.

[fatboy]

Juche is the bastard child of Marxist-Leninism. Juche says the military is the main force behind the revolution and not the proletariat. Kim II Sung is revered as a god and is believed that he is the eternal leader of the country. Juche is also heavily nationalistic.

[Kléber]

As fatboy said, Juche is basically a caricature of Stalinism. I would add that the three distinguishing features of Juche which he notes have their origins in Stalinism. The substitution of the national army for the international proletariat, nationalism for internationalism, and the sayings of a leader for a pragmatic ideology, all have their origins in the Stalinist USSR. However, Stalin only played with these ideas in comparison to the extremes to which they have been taken in the DPRK. How is it that this super-deformed "bastard child" of Marxism came to be?

In the DPRK, like Cuba, leaders of the same family name succeed each other - is it a coincidence that there is a high level of nepotism in the two surviving deformed workers' states (deformed to the point of zombie-ism, even in the physical persons of the leaders)? I think not. First of all that coincidence has to do with the tiny size of the ruling elites themselves: both have their origins in tiny partisan units. The military-bureaucratic-intelligence apparatus in both is so large, compared to the sector of the bureaucracy engaged in outright bourgeois activity, that it has been able to prevent the restoration of capitalism by petty-bourgeois and quasi-bourgeois elements, even though the other "socialist" countries have either given up the act or privatized their industry, taking the hint from the parent country after the USSR capitulated and ceased to be the dominant metropole of a world trading bloc. Any potential Gorbachev-style reformer in Cuba or North Korea would face a much greater coalition of "hardline" forces than Russian restorationists did in 1991.

The Korean ruling elite has invented "Songun (gun-based) Politics" as a providential explanation for how its geo-strategic position and corresponding massive infusion of foreign arms (which the North Korean military is not known for throwing away when they get out-of-date) have allowed it to stay in power, while maintaining the static state of cultural and economic affairs, and - we may assume - devious exploitation of the people behind the scenes, for all these years. Given that the DPRK is effectively politically subject to China, the supply of new guns seems ensured, although subjective pro-market influence from the PRC engenders the development of petty-bourgeois and state capitalist "black market" activity, which undermines the social strength of the bureaucracy in the same way that the European Union's semi-adoption of Cuba as an economic satellite has promoted tourism and a market economy there.

Why no similar ideology exists in Cuba would be an interesting discussion. It probably has to do with the fact that the clique which leads the DPRK underwent severe purges, to prune it poltically, while in the USSR whereas the July 26 Movement in Cuba was more removed from the Marxist tradition, with liberal nationalist origins, and thus the Cuban state more closely resembles your typical vanilla left-wing bourgeois military dictatorship (which it briefly started out as), but whose Soviet-trained generals see no reason to abolish the political power they derive from the public sector.

Then again, as Dimentio notes, Juche isn't much more than a series of slogans and quasi-religious nonsense, the personal affectations of the Kim clique, so there is only so much sense you can make out of it. What sucks is that the Cuban and Korean proletariat have not been politically independent, these are super-deformed bureaucratic states whose publicly-owned industry was set up by a military order, not workers' committees. Their "socialist" economies are a vestigial form of the economic development plans advocated by Soviet (and in the Korean case Chinese) advisors. Very little hope, in my view, exists for the transformation of that system into a democratic, socialist one.

I hope that I will be proven wrong. Revolutionary possibilities might actually exist that didn't exist in other deformed workers' states, precisely because of the extreme level of deformity. So much of the population is forced into regular military life in those countries that dissident sentiment must be latent in the ranks for the simple reason that it is impossible to pick and choose when you are conscripting an army of that size. Also, the official political doctrine has become so odious that it is hard to believe it is not reciprocated by widespread ridicule in private conversations. Then again both of these things were the case in the USSR, but proletarian democracy was not spontaneously regenerated by the funny popular jokes. There was an interesting case of a protest mutiny in the Brezhnev era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valery_Sablin), perhaps something of that sort on a larger scale might happen in North Korea although it would probably be unsuccessful. At the present rate, though, the slow development of petty-bourgeois and market capitalism under Chinese auspices, and elimination of the peculiar economic differences between the DPRK and PRC, seems more likely.

Here is a quote from Stalin's "Oath to Lenin" at the latter's funeral that shows the cultification process was already underway in the early USSR.

In leaving us, Comrade Lenin ordained us to hold high and keep pure the great title of member of the party. We vow to thee, Comrade Lenin, that we shall honourably fulfil this thy commandment . . . In leaving us, Comrade Lenin ordained us to guard the unity of our party like the apple of our eye. We vow to thee, Comrade Lenin, that without sparing our strength, we shall fulfil honourably this thy commandment, too . . . In leaving us, Comrade Lenin ordained us to guard and strengthen the dictatorship of the proletariat. We vow to thee, Comrade Lenin, that without sparing our strength we shall honourably fulfil this thy commandment, too . . . In leaving us, Comrade Lenin ordained us to strengthen with all our might the alliance of workers and peasants. We vow to thee, Comrade Lenin, that we shall fulfil honourably this thy commandment, too . . . In leaving us, Comade Lenin ordained us to strengthen and broaden the Union of the Republics. We vow to thee, Comrade Lenin, that we shall honourably fulfil this thy commandment, too . . . In leaving us, Comrade Lenin ordained us to keep faith with the principles of the Communist International. We vow to thee, Comrade Lenin, that we shall not spare our lives in the endeavour to strengthen and broaden the alliance of the workers of the whole world – the Communist International.

In conclusion, the oppression of the Korean peasants and workers by foreign guns is a crime of monstrous proportions. Only a proletarian revolution which throws off the yoke of imperialism and the Kim clique can end this tragedy.

I should clarify, that if any military power attacked the DPRK it would be the duty of all class-conscious workers and farmers to resist the foreign invasion, not to defend the privileges of the Kim clique, but in order to defend their homes and livelihood from a foreign domination which would be even worse than the sufferings they have endured so far. The same goes for Cuba, or any other small country under attack from imperialism, regardless of how horrible the government may be.

[fatboy]

As fatboy said, Juche is basically a caricature of Stalinism. I would add that the three distinguishing features of Juche which he notes have their origins in Stalinism.

What is Stalinism? And what are the distinct features of this tendency.

[DecDoom]

Since Juche encourages worship of the Kims, could Juche be considered a religion/cult?

[Muzk]

What is Stalinism? And what are the distinct features of this tendency.


I smell a tendency war...

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

Since Juche encourages worship of the Kims, could Juche be considered a religion/cult?
No. Juche as a system does not encourage "worship" of the Kims.
The reason why the Kims are revered is becaus both leaders of the DPRK so far happened to be of the Kim family.

There are no divine powers which are attributed to Kim Il Sung or Kim Jong Il, but indeed there is a high amount of respect for th leader.

[Rjevan]

So I'm sort of lost as to what Juche is really about. I understand that it's primarily focused on national self-sufficiency, but is the whole "Dear Leader" thing part of it too? What is a summary of the "official" Juche "constitution" or equivalent?
Fatboy already gave a good summary. Basically Juche is a revisionist theory, developed by Kim Il Sung. He claimed that Marxism-Leninism is outdated and "stuck in its historical limits" while Juche is eternal as it is the most advantaged stage of socialism, both in theory and practice. Juche stresses the importance of national autarky and of the role of man and masses in history and society, which contradicts dialectical materialism and historcial materialism. Further the "special role" of the Korean nation in world history is stressed and Korea is presented as "centre of the world". This results in strong nationalism and in embracing not only the national petty bourgeoisie but the national bourgeoisie:

There is no reason why communists and nationalists cannot unite in the efforts for nation-building. . . . Unity alone is the patriotic road for the country and the people and the true road to nation-building, the road to guaranteeing a new, democratic Korea.

Ademocratic People’s Republic... must be built by forming a democratic united front... which embraces... even the national capitalists with a national conscience.
Last but not least the military is considered as the only revolutionary and thus most important class and force in society which is especially stressed by the Songun ("Military first") policy, stating that the military has absolute priority in all aspects of life.


- How does Juche differ from Socialism in One Country?
As the characteristics stated above show, Juche directly contradicts Marxism-Leninism and SIOC is a ML theory, developed by Lenin and Stalin based on the teachings of Marx and Engels and a materialist analysis of the revolution, the historical, social and economic situation at that time. And most important: the theory of SIOC explicitely emphasises that this state is by no means the final goal of the revolution and the complete victory of socialism. Besides of aiming at communism, the nation which builds socialism is still threatened by the imperialist states and the reactionary elements within the country, therefore it is self-evident that this nation can only survive with the help of the world proletariat. The socialist nation does not exist for self-sufficient reasons but is a tool of the internation proletariat and actively fights for the world revolution and against the imperialists.


- Some characterize Juche as "Korean Maoism" (I'm assuming due to its Asiatic origins and "cult of personality"). Is this a fair characterization? Why?
This question is maybe better answered by a Maoist. ;)


- Does Juche promote the notion of internationalism/furthering international revolution?
No, Juche states that the interests of the own nation are above those of the international workers' movement. Of course they would welcome further states adopting the Juche ideology but they do not work towards this and the socialist world revolution is no goal of Juche.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Well, as these threads show, SIOC was not a Leninist doctrine:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1677907&postcount=33

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1610331&postcount=115

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1640164&postcount=10

[Sasha]

There are no divine powers which are attributed to Kim Il Sung or Kim Jong Il, but indeed there is a high amount of respect for th leader.


Official biographers claim that his birth at Baekdu Mountain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baekdu_Mountain) was foretold by a swallow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swallow_%28bird%29), and heralded by the appearance of a double rainbow over the mountain and a new star in the heavens.

sounds divine to me...

[Raúl Duke]

Further the "special role" of the Korean nation in world history is stressed and Korea is presented as "centre of the world". This results in strong nationalism and in embracing not only the national petty bourgeoisie but the national bourgeoisie:
Quote:
While Maoism is surely more international...it also contains the idea of "Bloc of 4 classes" which included the national bourgeoisie... (thus why I find classical Maoism good for anti-imperialist struggles in the 3rd world, but a disastrous idea if dogmatically applied in the 1st world where there's barely any "peasants" and alliances with the national bourgeoisie is downright reactionary. Hopefully, Kasama, which despite their claims seem very Maoism orientated, "upgrades" Maoism).

In that regard Juche (or more specifically the idea Kim il Sung has) and Maoism share something similar.

[Raúl Duke]

Which western Maoists do that?

none that I know of....
Although I heard the RCP might in fact be applying the "theory of bloc of 4 classes", although not explicitly; yet I only heard of that from a critic or 2.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Since Juche encourages worship of the Kims, could Juche be considered a religion/cult?

I have actually seen some sites that do consider Juche to be a religion/cult because of the status of the Kims. However, as others have mentioned this is inaccurate as there's isn't actually any divine qualitites attributed to the Kims. The personality cult is still frightening though.

[AK]

Juche is reactionary. 'Nuff said.

[Uppercut]

Juche is a noble ideology, as it attempts to create an Autarky in North Korea (most likely do to the fierce embargo on the country). Unfortunately, that isn't going well. Food is still scarce outside of Pyongyang, and from what I can tell, the country side is picked dry of produce.

Plus, you have a disproportionate amount of NK's GDP going towards their military. Very little is actually spent on healthcare and nourishment.

[Dimentio]

Juche is a noble ideology, as it attempts to create an Autarky in North Korea (most likely do to the fierce embargo on the country). Unfortunately, that isn't going well. Food is still scarce outside of Pyongyang, and from what I can tell, the country side is picked dry of produce.

Plus, you have a disproportionate amount of NK's GDP going towards their military. Very little is actually spent on healthcare and nourishment.

Why is it noble with autarchy? :lol:

[Guerrilla22]

It basically promotes self reliance by one state, which I suppose makes sense given the DPRK's position in the world.

[Dimentio]

It basically promotes self reliance by one state, which I suppose makes sense given the DPRK's position in the world.

It doesn't make sense. An embargoed state should strive to try to break the embargo as much as possible, preferably to help its people. Not to cement the embargo by instituting it.

[Invincible Summer]

Are there any working class based movements in the DPRK?

[Glenn Beck]

- How does Juche differ from Socialism in One Country?

From a Marxist-Leninist perspective this can have two answers.

If one supports the leadership of North Korea as Communist then Juche is simply a special case of the broad concept of "socialism in one country" applied especially for North Korea circumstances. This perspective is not so common, especially since North Korea has intentionally removed all references to Marxism-Leninism in its constitution and official statements.

If one considers the leadership of North Korea as revisionist then Juche is a revisionist ideology that may misuse the concept of socialism in one country to justify the revisionist actions of the North Korean government (some commonly cited instances would be the establishment of free-enterprise zones, obviously the "military first" [Songun] idea, and the cult of personality).

Either way, they are distinct but not necessarily contradictory.


- Some characterize Juche as "Korean Maoism" (I'm assuming due to its Asiatic origins and "cult of personality"). Is this a fair characterization? Why?

No, it is not a fair characterization. Juche and Maoism have completely distinct features that distinguish them each from Marxism-Leninism in general. Juche for one lacks the concepts of cultural revolution and (I believe) mass line. It is similar in the sense that it shares Maoism's expansion of "who can be revolutionary" to all those holding the proper ideological orientation, and not simply class identity (the justification for Maoist identification of peasants as revolutionary). However, this belief is not justified in the same terms and Maoism does not share the "military first" idea that defines Juche/Songun. In fact, Songun explicitly redefines the military as the socialist vanguard, whereas Maoism retains the primacy of the proletariat, only adding that members of other classes may possess a proletarian class consciousness and thus be revolutionary.


- Does Juche promote the notion of internationalism/furthering international revolution?

Yes, but with reservations. Juche under Kim Sung-il claimed only to be a special application of Marxism-Leninism that only emphasized certain tendencies of that ideology. Thus, as a form of Marxism-Leninism, Juche is implicitly universal and generalizable and supports the world revolution at least in theory. Juche/Songun under Kim Jong-Il no longer considers itself a special case of Marxism-Leninism but as far as I know, supports the idea of international cooperation and solidarity and considers Juche/Songun to be views that can be generalized and applied by other nations to liberate themselves in a revolution. Naturally this doesn't at all constitute a proletarian internationalism as Juche/Songun under Kim Jong-Il is no longer an ideology of working class revolution. I don't know about any actions taken by the North Korean government to foment revolution abroad, however defined.

Just a note on terms: Juche is the idea of "self-reliance" as a goal of North Korean policy and was originated by Kim Il-Sung when he was alive; at this time North Korea still considered itself a Marxist-Leninist state. Songun is the idea of "military first" policy that was introduced under Kim Jong-Il. The Juche idea was retained by the government under Kim Jong-Il but was now given a different focus and emphasis in light of the shift from a nominal adherence to Marxism to the Songun idea of the military as revolutionary vanguard.

Juche is generally used as a shorthand way to refer to the state ideology of North Korea, and since you used it that way in your questions I retained that usage wherever it made sense to do so. I think "Juche and Songun politics" is the construction the North Koreans actually use, but not being North Korean or a supporter of the DPRK I'm not too picky.

[Raúl Duke]

I already gave you thanks, but I just want to say you provided a very good response to the OP

[Glenn Beck]

I already gave you thanks, but I just want to say you provided a very good response to the OP

Gee, thanks :D

[AK]

It doesn't make sense. An embargoed state should strive to try to break the embargo as much as possible, preferably to help its people. Not to cement the embargo by instituting it.
North Korea doesn't make sense.

[Uppercut]

Why is it noble with autarchy? :lol:

What's noble about building an autarkical state? Is that the question?

[Invincible Summer]

So what's the logic behind the idea that the military is the "vanguard" of the working class?

Are there any anti-Juche movements in the DPRK, or is their military apparatus so strong that such a thing would be crushed?

Finally, what are living conditions like in the DPRK (i.e. social programs, healthcare, etc)?

[Jia]

So what's the logic behind the idea that the military is the "vanguard" of the working class?

Are there any anti-Juche movements in the DPRK, or is their military apparatus so strong that such a thing would be crushed?

Finally, what are living conditions like in the DPRK (i.e. social programs, healthcare, etc)?

As for living conditions they are not too bad. There is no famine but malnutrition is a problem. Healthcare is good, in comparison to Africa at least. I have had friends who have been to the DPRK on several occasions so any questions feel free to ask. A odd thing about it was their photos have to be deleted when they finished.