What's the difference between Socialism & the 'Dictatorship of the Proletariat'?

[The Vegan Marxist]

Given that Socialism represents the transitional period from Capitalism to Communism, if you are to follow Marxist principle, but to follow such, you are also in favor of what is called the 'Dictatorship of the Proletariat', which, from what I've come to understand of it, implies the same transitional period. So, is there a difference between Socialism & the 'dotp' or are they of some similar status?

[Pirate Utopian]

DotP is more specific, there are many forms of socialism, most of which have virtually nothing to do with Marxism.

[ZeroNowhere]

I wrote about this (well, it's mostly Marx quotes, but yeah) here (http://theinnermountingflame.blogspot.com/2009/09/dictatorship-of-proleteriat.html). As has been pointed out by the SPGB, Chattopadhyay, the SLP, and so on, Marx and Engels used 'socialism' synonymously with 'communism', to represent a classless society, lacking, of course, commodity production, wage labour, and such. The DotP is distinct from this, it occurs during the revolution.

[The Vegan Marxist]

So what would be easier to call the transitional stage then, Socialism, in which everyone understands for the most part, or the 'DotP', in which a lot of people still get confused on how it'll operate?

[LeninistKing]

SOME THOUGHTS ON THE DICTATORSHIP OF THE PROLETARIAT

The dictatorship of the proletariat, as understood as working class hegemony over society, is an obvious requirement for the building of a communist society. It is the opposite of the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie (the hegemony of the capitalist class over society as we have today). The political expression of the DotP can only be a direct democracy to its fullest extension.

Communism, as has been noted, cannot be built overnight. Communism marks the total freedom of humanity to develop itself to its fullest possibilities without any social, political or economical constraints. It is a form of society operating at a much higher level than capitalism can offer in its biggest boom and most generous concessions to the working class.
It also marks the genuine unification of the world as a community and a society without classes or state.

To achieve this, the first step is to instate the Dictatorship of the proletariat. I do not think the dictatorship of the proletariat is equal to socialism though, as this marks an absolute improvement in living standards as compared to the most developed capitalist economy on the planet, thusly solving the inherited social problems of capitalism, but opinions on this issue differ. With the transition from socialism to communism though, to a classless society, the dictatorship of the proletariat also ends as you can no longer speak of an hegemony of a class if there are no classes.

after the revolution humanity doesn't rule off everything and starts from the scratch, the new society emerges out of the ruins of the old one, the capitalist society. You can't declare a new society (well, you can but nobody will care) you have to build it. It is only natural that people still have capitalist and bourgeois habits and thoughts which must be overcome, Marx himslef says that the lower stage of communism (=socialism=dictatorship of the proletariat) is "stamped with the birthmarks of the old society".

It is also natural that the overthrown bourgeoisie will still have impressive means to fight against the proletariat and will try to get back their power whenever possible by all means. This is further outlined in Lenin's "The State and Revolution", as it is outlined that according to Marx and Engels the state is "an instrument of one class oppressing another class" and that the proletariat needs the state to oppress the bourgeoisie.

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Given that Socialism represents the transitional period from Capitalism to Communism, if you are to follow Marxist principle, but to follow such, you are also in favor of what is called the 'Dictatorship of the Proletariat', which, from what I've come to understand of it, implies the same transitional period. So, is there a difference between Socialism & the 'dotp' or are they of some similar status?

[The Vegan Marxist]

This is further outlined in Lenin's "The State and Revolution", as it is outlined that according to Marx and Engels the state is "an instrument of one class oppressing another class" and that the proletariat needs the state to oppress the bourgeoisie.


We would need the state to oppress the bourgeoisie? I understand this concept, but what exactly would this bring that is different from now to then? The State is being used to oppress those of the power that is trying to be gained, which is what'll start a coming revolution sooner or later. And so, if we were to do this while we were gaining the power, would we not start witnessing deja vu here, except against us?

[ZeroNowhere]

So what would be easier to call the transitional stage then, Socialism, in which everyone understands for the most part, or the 'DotP', in which a lot of people still get confused on how it'll operate?
Try 'revolution', it gets the point across.


Marx himslef says that the lower stage of communism (=socialism=dictatorship of the proletariatThere is no commodity production, labour is directly social, and everyone is only a worker like everyone else, but a proletariat suddenly appears out of nowhere?


We would need the state to oppress the bourgeoisie?Presumably the point is that the bourgeoisie will have to be expropriated against their will using force (ie. enforcement). I'm not entirely sure why people use the word 'oppress' here, as that has further implications and it's not really clear what it achieves that makes it superior to more clear expressions.