Communists in NATO countries, how do you respond to this?

[Kingpin]

You stay up for 16 hours

They stay up for days on end.
_________________________

You take a warm shower to help you wake up.

They go days or weeks without running water.
__________________________

You complain of a "headache", and call in sick.

They get shot at as others are hit, and keep moving forward.
__________________________

You put on your "Code Pink" t-shirt and go meet up with your friends.

They still fight for your right to wear that shirt.
__________________________

You talk trash about your "friends" who are not with you.

They know they may not see some of their buddies again.
__________________________

You walk down the beach, staring at all the pretty girls/guys.

They patrol the streets, searching for insurgents and terrorists.
_________________________

You complain about how hot it is.

They wear their heavy gear, not daring to take off their helmet to wipe their brow.
__________________________

You go out to lunch, and complain because the restaurant got your order wrong.

They may not get to eat today.
__________________________

Your maid makes your bed and washes your clothes.

They wear the same things for weeks, but makes sure their weapons are clean.
__________________________

You go to the mall and get your hair redone.

They don't have time to brush their teeth today.
__________________________

You're angry because your class ran 5 minutes over.

They're told they will be held over an extra 2 months.
__________________________

You call your boyfriend/girlfriend and set a date for tonight.

They wait for the mail to see if there is a letter from home.
__________________________

You hug and kiss your girlfriend/boyfriend, like you do everyday.

They hold their letters close and smell their loves' perfume/cologne.
__________________________

You roll your eyes as a baby cries.

They get a letter with pictures of their new child, and wonder if they'll ever meet
__________________________

You criticize the military, and say that war never solves anything.

They see the innocent tortured and killed by their own people and remembers why they are fighting.
__________________________

You hear the jokes about war, and make fun of men/women like him/her.

They hear the gunfire, bombs and screams of the wounded.
__________________________

You see only what the media wants you to see.

They see the broken bodies lying around them.
__________________________

You are asked to go to the store by your parents. You don't.

They do exactly what they are told.
__________________________

You stay at home and watch TV.

They take whatever time they are given to call, write home, sleep, and eat.
__________________________

You crawl into your soft bed, with down pillows, and get comfortable.

They try to sleep but get woken up by mortars and helicopters all night long. __________________________

You sit there and judge them, saying the world is probably a worse place because of people like them

If only there were more people like them

[FreeFocus]

Not really concerned what pigs do..train to match these feats.

I don't have a maid and eating out at restaurants is too expensive for me. The bourgeoisie, the rich, the privileged - they should be thankful for these people taking bullets for them, but all that means is that they're fucking cowards. CEOs won't walk onto a battlefield.

[Drace]

What is this?

[Kingpin]

What is this?

Glad you asked.

There is a woman at my high school that I am spending time with.

Problem is, she is a descendant of a family that puts military service above all things.

She doesn't know my political leanings yet, and I fear that when she steps foot in my house and sees leftist paraphanelia I might never be able to sleep with her again!

[Nolan]

Mmmmmk. :rolleyes:

[The Red Next Door]

I have nothing against the soldiers but the fact is they are dying for some rich motherfucker hummer.

[#FF0000]

Soldiers have shitty lives because they are camping in the desert w/ bombs.

Therefore u hav no rgument lolololol

also anyone stupid enough to join the military (or the police force for that matter) don't have a right to complain in my mind. I have lots of military/cop frenz/family too.

[Demogorgon]

The fact that you choose to put yourself through hell does not mean you are doing a good thing. The fact that soldiers have to suffer so much themselves in order to effectively cause harm to others just makes the whole affair all the more tragically absurd.

The thing is though, you always get this propaganda about what "our boys" are doing, but it tens to forget that exactly the same thing can be said about the "other side". Would those making the argument accept the line that "Taliban soldiers put their lives on the line and suffer greatly, therefore their cause is just"?

[Dimentio]

If NATO countries were under the threat of impending occupation, they would be heroes. But as it is now, NATO is in countries which do not constitute any real threat against the NATO member states to occupy them for reasons which seem to change every minute.

I cannot see how for example the Dutch democracy is improved by occupying Afghanistan.


You stay up for 16 hours

They stay up for days on end.
_________________________

You take a warm shower to help you wake up.

They go days or weeks without running water.
__________________________

You complain of a "headache", and call in sick.

They get shot at as others are hit, and keep moving forward.
__________________________

You put on your "Code Pink" t-shirt and go meet up with your friends.

They still fight for your right to wear that shirt.
__________________________

You talk trash about your "friends" who are not with you.

They know they may not see some of their buddies again.
__________________________

You walk down the beach, staring at all the pretty girls/guys.

They patrol the streets, searching for insurgents and terrorists.
_________________________

You complain about how hot it is.

They wear their heavy gear, not daring to take off their helmet to wipe their brow.
__________________________

You go out to lunch, and complain because the restaurant got your order wrong.

They may not get to eat today.
__________________________

Your maid makes your bed and washes your clothes.

They wear the same things for weeks, but makes sure their weapons are clean.
__________________________

You go to the mall and get your hair redone.

They don't have time to brush their teeth today.
__________________________

You're angry because your class ran 5 minutes over.

They're told they will be held over an extra 2 months.
__________________________

You call your boyfriend/girlfriend and set a date for tonight.

They wait for the mail to see if there is a letter from home.
__________________________

You hug and kiss your girlfriend/boyfriend, like you do everyday.

They hold their letters close and smell their loves' perfume/cologne.
__________________________

You roll your eyes as a baby cries.

They get a letter with pictures of their new child, and wonder if they'll ever meet
__________________________

You criticize the military, and say that war never solves anything.

They see the innocent tortured and killed by their own people and remembers why they are fighting.
__________________________

You hear the jokes about war, and make fun of men/women like him/her.

They hear the gunfire, bombs and screams of the wounded.
__________________________

You see only what the media wants you to see.

They see the broken bodies lying around them.
__________________________

You are asked to go to the store by your parents. You don't.

They do exactly what they are told.
__________________________

You stay at home and watch TV.

They take whatever time they are given to call, write home, sleep, and eat.
__________________________

You crawl into your soft bed, with down pillows, and get comfortable.

They try to sleep but get woken up by mortars and helicopters all night long. __________________________

You sit there and judge them, saying the world is probably a worse place because of people like them

If only there were more people like them

[Jazzratt]

Yeah it sucks to be in the military, I'm not sure why that justifies supporting it. If anything, to my mind, it suggests opposing it or at the very least opposing its deployment in pointless wars. The other part of that list, apart from the "their life sucks" parts was interesting too:


You put on your "Code Pink" t-shirt and go meet up with your friends.

They still fight for your right to wear that shirt.
__________________________

You criticize the military, and say that war never solves anything.

They see the innocent tortured and killed by their own people and remembers why they are fighting.

This is just bollocks. Firstly the right to wearing that T-shirt is perfectly safe. All the countries NATO troops currently occupy pose 0 threat to the legal structure that grants people the right to wear whatever t-shirt. THe second one was just weird as I first assumed "their own people" reffered to fellow soldiers, which would mean the reason they're fighting is so that their buddies can keep torturing people. Given that it's their job to kill people and they do, in fact, torture people as an aside I'm really not sure it's a satisfactory reason. Oh yeah and if you want to talk about "killed by their own people" America's high rate of death sentences should come up at some point.


You see only what the media wants you to see.

They see the broken bodies lying around them.

"The media" shows roughly two things about war - one is heroic soldiers doing the right thing and blahdy fucking blah. That's the one that avoids broken bodies and that's the one that never comes under fire by the military because it gives them all their jingoistic armchair generals and tankspotters that form the core of support. The other type of media, the kind that strays from the official line and might even show bodies broken by US troops does in fact show another side to the war, this is probably the one they're criticising - which is odd because it's also the one that talks about how shite being a soldier is (which the bulk of this list is concerned with). The military have always had an antagonism toward journalists of a certain type because the truth tends to be uglier than what their pets at outputs like FOX or the Daily Mail let on.

[rednordman]

You know, I absolutley love it how these people automatically assume that we are all wealthy, economically stable, and living the life of rhily, just because we live in the west.

Round of applause for the ignourant gnat who came up with that uber idealistic bullshit.

Well done, 60% of Britian is actually hanging on to your every word! Oh the shame:(.

[khad]

The military gets running water, professional catering, and x-boxes back on base. I remember a guy from another forum who shipped out to Afghanistan. He was talking about being scared while out on patrol, but he absolutely loved the buffet-style meals on base. They probably eat better than most of us. You can thank Halliburton and all the corporate bloat for that.

And coming from a military family myself, I can understand these sentiments, but it's not an argument worth considering. Doing the job of a soldier is nothing to be proud of, and it makes no difference when you're on the wrong side.

[SouthernBelle82]

Not really concerned what pigs do..train to match these feats.

I don't have a maid and eating out at restaurants is too expensive for me. The bourgeoisie, the rich, the privileged - they should be thankful for these people taking bullets for them, but all that means is that they're fucking cowards. CEOs won't walk onto a battlefield.

I don't have a maid either. Eating out is a treat. If it's by myself I may do something like Subway or something that's $5. Of course CEOs won't even with those Blackwater guys I bet Eric Prince never did anything himself except masturbate off shit.

[SouthernBelle82]

Soldiers have shitty lives because they are camping in the desert w/ bombs.

Therefore u hav no rgument lolololol

also anyone stupid enough to join the military (or the police force for that matter) don't have a right to complain in my mind. I have lots of military/cop frenz/family too.

With the military that's why I think it's up to us the people and politicians (with who we vote in) to what happens with the military. As with cops that's a little different. I think with cops you can resign whenever you want and with the military it's not as easy. Plus with cops there's different things you can do and if you're sick you can probably call in sick easier or family or something.

[SouthernBelle82]

The military gets running water, professional catering, and x-boxes back on base. I remember a guy from another forum who shipped out to Afghanistan. He was talking about being scared while out on patrol, but he absolutely loved the buffet-style meals on base. They probably eat better than most of us. You can thank Halliburton and all the corporate bloat for that.

And coming from a military family myself, I can understand these sentiments, but it's not an argument worth considering. Doing the job of a soldier is nothing to be proud of, and it makes no difference when you're on the wrong side.

Well unless Halliburton is sending them poisoned water. That happened a few yrs ago. And there was some contract company who built their showers and someone died from electrocution. Now days there are more contractors than soldiers who don't have any rules to really follow (see Blackwater). I remember seeing a video on Youtube some yrs ago where some soldiers were just so awful to a puppy.

[khad]

Well unless Halliburton is sending them poisoned water. That happened a few yrs ago. And there was some contract company who built their showers and someone died from electrocution. Now days there are more contractors than soldiers who don't have any rules to really follow (see Blackwater). I remember seeing a video on Youtube some yrs ago where some soldiers were just so awful to a puppy.
Those Blackwater thugs who got killed in Fallujah were doing the all-important task of guarding an ice cream shipment to base.

I do agree that Halliburton does have shitty standards and are more interested in making black, but to be realistic even corporate graft has its beneficiaries. I can't even begin to imagine the US Army of the 80s getting Pizza Hut and nintendos.

[SouthernBelle82]

Those Blackwater thugs who got killed in Fallujah were doing the all-important task of guarding an ice cream shipment to base.

I do agree that Halliburton does have shitty standards and are more interested in making black, but to be realistic even corporate graft has its beneficiaries. I can't even begin to imagine the US Army of the 80s getting Pizza Hut and nintendos.

Having these contractors is so dangerous for everyone. Of course being there in the first place is dangerous. As far as the pizza and nintendo's I don't know but how long were they there in the past?

[Comrade B]

Man, I am glad they have to work so damn hard to keep the world oppressed.


NATO officials probably never have any problems with getting water.

Soldiers are not NATO, soldiers are people trying to make some cash and go to college. Lets take use 3 of my friends in the marines as an example, J. G., J. R. , and B. K.. J.G. is in the military to get citizenship so that he can get college scholarships. He is opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He is for the Zapatista movement.
J. R. has a criminal record which keeps him from getting a good job, he is planning on counterbalancing this with making himself look better on a resume with military service. He describes himself as apolitical
B.K. Failed out of high school. His only political interest as far as I know is legalization of marijuana.

NATO is not the soldiers it uses, just like the US government is not the workers inside of the US. That is only the source from which it draws its power.

[Dean]

"The media" shows roughly two things about war - one is heroic soldiers doing the right thing and blahdy fucking blah. That's the one that avoids broken bodies and that's the one that never comes under fire by the military because it gives them all their jingoistic armchair generals and tankspotters that form the core of support. The other type of media, the kind that strays from the official line and might even show bodies broken by US troops does in fact show another side to the war, this is probably the one they're criticising - which is odd because it's also the one that talks about how shite being a soldier is (which the bulk of this list is concerned with). The military have always had an antagonism toward journalists of a certain type because the truth tends to be uglier than what their pets at outputs like FOX or the Daily Mail let on.

I generally agree but I don't like to use FOX or DM as examples. Its important to show the liberal examples, to make it clear that the less flagrant jingoism (CNN, NBC, NYT) is still dangerous and instead of the "democrat-republican or tory-labor" dichotomy, there can be a general rejection of the mainstream media since it really represents those institutions almost parallel...ly?.

Yeah, you get the idea.

[Jazzratt]

I generally agree but I don't like to use FOX or DM as examples. Its important to show the liberal examples, to make it clear that the less flagrant jingoism (CNN, NBC, NYT) is still dangerous and instead of the "democrat-republican or tory-labor" dichotomy, there can be a general rejection of the mainstream media since it really represents those institutions almost parallel...ly?.

Yeah, you get the idea.

Fair point, well made. I guess it's easier to use more extreme examples, especially with those two particular outlets.

[The Douche]

I'm a soldier, fuck that little poem, its stupid.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

Glad you asked.

There is a woman at my high school that I am spending time with.

Problem is, she is a descendant of a family that puts military service above all things.

She doesn't know my political leanings yet, and I fear that when she steps foot in my house and sees leftist paraphanelia I might never be able to sleep with her again!

Tell her that you also value military service... just to the people's army :lol:

[Tatarin]

Not that I know about every single relationship, but I've never actually heard that politics are such a big problem in a relationship, well at least in the beginning. And why should you have to explain everything, why can't she explain why the military is oh so glorious all the time?

If you live in the US, why not ask why the military always seems to be on the offence in countries far from the borders of the country it is supposed to be defending. Ask, were the German soldiers during WW2 also glorious?

Then there are parallels to almost all kinds of control systems. Defense in itself isn't something bad, but when you have a huge standing army it becomes something else, just as the belief in gods isn't dangerous but organized religion that either uses power or is used by power is another question. I mean, you could even defeat the glorious army-argument with liberalism: why should there even be an army that lives on your tax money? Liberalists are quick to denounce welfare programs, social nets, work safety and pensions as useless taxing to support lazy people, yet when it comes to fighting wars against the rest of the world, then there doesn't seem to be any problems at all! Or what about the oh so common president and his senators who live in obscure luxuries?

[RGacky3]

I don't get it, whats the point, yeah war sucks ... No one denies that, whats your point?

[ls]

I'm a soldier, fuck that little poem, its stupid.

Why are you getting upset? Are you a defender of American imperialism?

[The Douche]

Why are you getting upset? Are you a defender of American imperialism?

Not mad, and not defending imperialism (:laugh:)

OP asked what we thought of it, I said I thought it was dumb.

"soldiers are special cause they have rough lives"...yeah...cool

[The Ghost of Revolutions]

You stay up for 16 hours

They stay up for days on end.

So do workers
_________________________

You take a warm shower to help you wake up.

They go days or weeks without running water.

So do workers
__________________________

You complain of a "headache", and call in sick.

They get shot at as others are hit, and keep moving forward.

Many workers work in conditions were if somebody is killed in an accident
the work day goes on
__________________________

You put on your "Code Pink" t-shirt and go meet up with your friends.

They still fight for your right to wear that shirt.

NATO isn't fighting for freedom
__________________________



You talk trash about your "friends" who are not with you.

They know they may not see some of their buddies again.

Same as everybody

__________________________

You walk down the beach, staring at all the pretty girls/guys.

They patrol the streets, searching for insurgents and terrorists.

Their country was invaded of course they are going top fight back!
_________________________

You complain about how hot it is.

They wear their heavy gear, not daring to take off their helmet to wipe their brow.

Many workers work in hot and humid conditions and must continue to work
_____________________
_____

You go out to lunch, and complain because the restaurant got your order wrong.

They may not get to eat today.

Once again so do many workers
__________________________

Your maid makes your bed and washes your clothes.

They wear the same things for weeks, but makes sure their weapons are clean.

Once again SO DO WORKERS
__________________________

You go to the mall and get your hair redone.

They don't have time to brush their teeth today.

same as workers

__________________________

You're angry because your class ran 5 minutes over.

They're told they will be held over an extra 2 months.

Workers are told that they will work longer for low pay.
__________________________

You call your boyfriend/girlfriend and set a date for tonight.

They wait for the mail to see if there is a letter from home.

Same for workers
__________________________

You hug and kiss your girlfriend/boyfriend, like you do everyday.

They hold their letters close and smell their loves' perfume/cologne.

Iv'e seen it done by workers

__________________________

You roll your eyes as a baby cries.

They get a letter with pictures of their new child, and wonder if they'll ever meet

I've seen people who have to leave home and their family to find a job
__________________________

You criticize the military, and say that war never solves anything.

They see the innocent tortured and killed by their own people and remembers why they are fighting.

They are fighting for oil profits
__________________________

You hear the jokes about war, and make fun of men/women like him/her.

They hear the gunfire, bombs and screams of the wounded.

For oil profits

__________________________

You see only what the media wants you to see.

They see the broken bodies lying around them.

Broken for oil profits

__________________________

You are asked to go to the store by your parents. You don't.

They do exactly what they are told.

So do workers
__________________________

You stay at home and watch TV.

They take whatever time they are given to call, write home, sleep, and eat.

As do workers

__________________________

You crawl into your soft bed, with down pillows, and get comfortable.

They try to sleep but get woken up by mortars and helicopters all night long.

Fighting an amoral war


__________________________

You sit there and judge them, saying the world is probably a worse place because of people like them

If only there were more people like them

They are fighting an amoral war




If NATO's cause was just I would sympathize but it is'nt. Also as I have pointed out many workers all around the world work in similar conditons.

[Valeofruin]

What's this about having a "right" to wear a shirt? Sounds like labor aristocracy to me... Perhaps she meant to say they fight for our " right" to own a fancy sub?

[RGacky3]

What's this about having a "right" to wear a shirt? Sounds like labor aristocracy to me... Perhaps she meant to say they fight for our " right" to own a fancy sub?


Yeah, because only rich people care about rights and basic human dignity right? No poor people have no problem not having rights and not having any voice, you idiot.

Also What is this labor aristocracy? So wanting to be able to wear a shirt of your choosing is labor aristocracy? A word with no meaning whatsoever.


Why are you getting upset? Are you a defender of American imperialism?

No he's saying its stupid, saying an anti-imperialism poem is stupid does'nt mean your defending imperialism. I happened to agree with him, trying to talk about a serious issue with some poetry is just in my opinion stupid, whats more stupid is asking people to respond to a poem.