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View Full Version : Capitalist crisis, specifically the current one



Lyev
19th February 2010, 20:06
It seems the more reading, research and debate I do on the capitalist crisis theory the more I am confused. There are a few different takes on it, that for me, don't really seem to correlate with each other.

(1) For example, this: A Chronology of Capitalism (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.radioproject.org/2010/02/chronology-of-capitalism-encore/), doesn't seem to correlate with other definition of the Marxist theory of crisis. The link says, as I remember it, that US capitalist was pretty dandy for the first 50 years or so of it's existence. Capital accumulation kept on running ahead of workers so this was solved by bringing in an unprecedented amount of immigrants into America. Then in the 70s "real wages stopped rising" or something like that (by the way, I'm not sure I understand this part properly) but anyway, as a result bosses didn't have to raise wages as much.

(2) But then brendanmcooneys has crisis down as an antagonism between the forces of production (machines, tools, factories etc.) and the relations of production (capitalist vs capitalist, worker vs capitalist, worker vs worker). Here: "The contradiction between these forces and relations has to do with the fact that workers are creating the value that sustains this system, yet the drive is to replace them with machines in order to make their labor more efficient. Thus the social relations compel capitalists to improve the forces of production in a way which undermines the goal of these same social relations (to extract more value from workers)."

(3) And then, a blog entry on inflation posted by a user on here, who I don't think hangs around here much anymore:
Okay, theres a rise in speculators, financiers, brokers, bankers, ect -- the bank finds that it is able to loan out more money to a business-sector (credit).

These contracts are made with the promise that the business will pay back to the bank with interest (credit).

However, the business-sector can't create and sell enough commodities (ie create wealth) in accordance to the amount that the bank promised that it's share-holders would recieve from the revenue of the bank.

When the bubble of a market bursts; means no more wealth can be created, revenues decline-- commodities can't be created and sold to keep up with the level of the debt. In short: There isn't said amount of wealth being created that the bank promised its holders. So the bank calls in its loans. There are bankruptcies, and share prices fall.

In todays case, the Treasury prints more and more money to bail out banks from going bankrupt, and feeling the debth of their losses (among other things, like war expenditure). As money is backed by gold, and gold by the labour neccessary for its abstraction and transport--the ratio of paper money to gold increases, thus paper money declines in value.

Wages decrease under inflation because when the market was first expanding there was a greater demand in labourers, now as markets contract, theres a decrease in demand-- there are too many labourers.Could someone help me out here? Thanks for your patience. Also, has anyone got any rebuttals to those annoying Lib Dems and Obama-ites who say that the crisis was wholly the fault of "greedy bankers" and that regulation of banks would sort this mess out? Thanks a lot comrades.

Psy
19th February 2010, 23:05
The problem from the capitalists standpoint is diminishing returns on their investments, we had all this iffy trading in the finical market because the real economy had (and still had) a much lower return rate.

This is causes the paradox of capitalism of commodity values falling as productive rises, meaning as capitalists increased their productivity the value of their commodities went down as less labor value went into producing them, thus industrial capitalists are stuck chasing their own tail where they have to exploit workers more to increase the rate of profit that falls because they exploit workers more (of course this happens on a macro level across the whole global capitalist economy).

This recent crisis is capitalists noticing the assumed increase of surplus of value does not match the actual amount of surplus value in the system resulting in more claims on surplus value then existing surplus value. The problem is workers don't have the means to consume enough commodities to restore the rate of profit so a long period of decline will probably follow.

SocialismOrBarbarism
19th February 2010, 23:23
This is a very good read:

http://sites.google.com/site/radicalperspectivesonthecrisis/finance-crisis/on-the-origins-of-the-crisis-beyond-finance/carchedireturnfromthegrave

It debunks the "overproduction" idea that you see from a lot of leftists.

Scary Monster
19th February 2010, 23:40
(1)Then in the 70s "real wages stopped rising" or something like that (by the way, I'm not sure I understand this part properly) but anyway, as a result bosses didn't have to raise wages as much.

Wages keep rising to keep up with the dollar inflation which is constant. Buut starting in the early 70's, wages started decreasing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:History_of_US_federal_minimum_wage_increases. svg, while at the same time, inflation has increased dramatically http://www.simplestockinvesting.com/SP500-historical-real-total-returns.htm(look at the Inflation-Adjusted data)
Id provide you with a graph that compares wages adjusted for inflation with Inflation rates, but i dont have time to find it cuz i gotta go! :D

ZeroNowhere
20th February 2010, 17:18
I believe I had already referred you to this work (http://akliman.squarespace.com/persistent-fall/) by Kliman. I believe Cooney has the same, or at least a similar, viewpoint, so I guess it's worth mentioning. Certainly, the above quote is more or less expressing the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, which is what Kliman is proposing as an important part of the present crisis.

redwog
21st February 2010, 11:33
I am suprised that this thread has not got as much attention as the seemingly endless threads of 'what's behind the label' or 'Is it ok to like this dictatorial Commie'.

It is of critical importance for the revolutionary left to understand what the crisis is caused by, in a manner which places at the center the self-activity of the working class.

We have to shy away from focusing on the internal machinations of capital, which is only a bourgeois analysis, and begin to understand it is us who has caused the crisis, just like every crisis. By us I don't mean the left, thank goodness the working class can perpetuate crisis without (or in spite) of the 'revolutionary left'.

The exact hows, whos and wheres of what is happening is complex to comprehend but must be the collective project of the left so to better involves ourselves, subjectively, in the coming years.

Perhaps the Greeks have already worked it out?

I only know, that Argentina gave us a good preview of a variety of organisational methods and strategies, and their lessons seem largely lost on the left milieu I am in contact with.

Thanks for the link SorB, more of that, maybe less economisty - I know it is hard! - is what marxists need to be reading and writing about.

Lyev
26th February 2010, 20:42
Thanks for the replies. Found this interesting quote from Volume II of Capital. It's Marx' rebuttal to the underconsumptionist theory of crisis:

“It is sheer tautology to say that crises are caused by the scarcity of effective consumption ... That commodities are unsaleable means only that no effective purchasers have been found for them ... But if one were to attempt to give this tautology the semblance of a profounder justification by saying that the working-class receives too small a portion of its own product and the evil would be remedied as soon as it receives a larger share of it and its wages increase in consequence, one could only remark that crises are always prepared by precisely a period in which wages rise generally and the working-class actually gets a larger share of that part of the annual product which is intended for consumption. From the point of view of these advocates of sound and “simple” (!) common sense, such a period should rather remove the crisis” (Capital, Vol. II, pp.410-11)

which doctor
26th February 2010, 21:33
Read the Left Business Observer for a level-headed, Marxian analysis of economics, that even the bourgeoisie pay attention to.

http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/
http://doughenwood.wordpress.com/

Aesop
26th February 2010, 21:57
This is a half-decent site, which deals with issues which are happening today and recent history.

http://www.globalissues.org/