Seinfeld

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

In light of my new avatar, I was curious if anybody here had ever noticed the (likely unintended) 'critique' of capitalism in the show? I'm an obsessive Seinfeld fan, and I noticed, after reading some work of the Situationist International, a certain similarity. Seinfeld seems to be very much a manifestation of the SI's critique of life in Western capitalism; boredom, self-centeredness, the absolute banality of daily routine, et cetera. I mean here we have a group of 30-somethings that spend every day in the same coffee shop talking about nothing. I don't know, I gleaned something from it... Anybody else?

[9]

In light of my new avatar, I was curious if anybody here had ever noticed the (likely unintended) 'critique' of capitalism in the show? I'm an obsessive Seinfeld fan, and I noticed, after reading some work of the Situationist International, a certain similarity. Seinfeld seems to be very much a manifestation of the SI's critique of life in Western capitalism; boredom, self-centeredness, the absolute banality of daily routine, et cetera. I mean here we have a group of 30-somethings that spend every day in the same coffee shop talking about nothing. I don't know, I gleaned something from it... Anybody else?

Nah, not really. I love Seinfeld, I've been watching it since I was little, and I've seen every episode (many times), but there's really nothing there in the way of (radical) political cred. At all. I think you really have to be trying pretty hard to turn it into a critique of capitalism. In fact, I get the feeling a lot of times when watching it that Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld are not only very much pro-capitalism, but are probably actually pro-laissez faire capitalism as well. Then again, I am not familiar with the "Situationist International", so it seems I might be missing something; is it, per chance, a middle class critique of capitalism? In which case, I guess you might have a better argument to make, but still...
I do remember quite clearly one of the Christmas episodes which had communism as a theme - Elaine is dating a communist, there is a reference to Trotsky and to "the means of production". But the guy that's supposed to be a communist actually goes into Kramer's workplace and tries to get him to quit (he apparently does this because he is a communist... :rolleyes:) because Kramer is "working for the corporate man" or something, which obviously is dumb as hell and shows that whoever writing probably didn't actually know anything about communism.
Anyway, I think it is wishful thinking on your behalf, and you should go back to watching it in acceptance of the fact that it is mindless entertainment with really no progressive political substance whatsoever :-)

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

Hahaha well like I said, I don't think it's actually intended as a revolutionary or progressive show. I don't think Larry David or Jerry Seinfeld meant for it to be a critique of capitalism at all, even if I saw it as symbolic of the banality of life in western society. Often times we glean things from works of art that the artist didn't intend, and that's kind of how I feel about Seinfeld.

And yeah, I like a lot of the SI analysis but it is somewhat petty bourgeois.

[Dimentio]

I would rather say that Seinfeld is a satire over New York and the shallow, materialistic lifestyle sought after by many New Yorkers. Seinfeld, Elaine and George would be considered to be more or less sociopaths if they had lived in the real world (Kramer is somewhat more "normal").

[which doctor]

I like Seinfeld as much as anyone else and I've probably seen every episode, but I've never found a critique of capitalism within it.

My favorite episode is probably when Elaine dates a communist, Ned Izenkoff, who only wears grey. And George takes out a personal ad in the Daily Worker. And Elaine gets her boyfriend blacklisted from his favorite chinese restaurant.

[rednordman]

From the episodes that I have seen, I do think that it plays on the irony of capitalism at times.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Ha, I love Seinfeld. I doubt there is an overt political critique in it, but I think it taps into the absurd and upside-down priorities of life in capitalism. Like Oscar Wilde, the Seinfeld show sweats the small stuff while brushing off the really important things. This really resonates considering all the strange obsessions of modern life in Capitalism... we in 2 wars, bombing several countries, but Tiger Woods having sex is somehow the scandal!

Larry David is apparently a progressive even if his characters are shown saying really insensitive things all the time (which is actually a pretty accurate parody of a lot of well-off white liberals). He also played a Communist Party member in Woody Allen's "Radio Days" - and Kramer became a red agitating Santa-Clause in one show. Oh, and Kramer was apparently on strike for 20 years and that's one of the reasons he never has a regular job.

But when it comes down to it, the show is entertainment and part of being a sharp comedy is finding common and attitudes or behaviors that reflect what people see in their daily lives. If we can find anti-capitalist satire or progressive ideas reflected in the show, I think it's just proof of how good it is at reflecting real-life.

Now, who wants to join me in organizing a "Soup Antifa"?:lol:

[Hit The North]

Hey, why not see a critique of capitalism in Seinfeld if you want to?

Like George says, "It's not a lie if you believe it."

[Sasha]

i fucking HATE seinfeld (and friends, and that radio shrink, and cheers and almost all other american sitcoms, bite me)

[Mälli]

For some reason I totally love Seinfeld! Good times, political or not.

[Jimmie Higgins]

i fucking HATE seinfeld (and friends, and that radio shrink, and cheers and almost all other american sitcoms, bite me)
I hate sitcoms too, but that's why I thought Seinfeld and The Simpsons were the best television comedies of the 90s if not the last few decades.

Comparing Seinfeld to Friends and Cheers is like comparing The Simpsons to Josie and the Pussycats or some other Hanna-Barbara cartoon... not even in the same league.

[Sasha]

the simpsons is great, seinfeld and co needs to be tortured with powerdrills on the kneecaps.

[Sasha]

and let not forget this prescious gem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r05XDOFUsQw

kramer actor goes "we should lynch you you niggers" on a group of black hecklers during his standup show...

[9]

^Man, you can't use that to discredit Seinfeld. TBH, I've never been able to figure out what the guy was trying to do with that bit... seems like either coming down from a coke binge or world's shittiest attempt at a Lenny Bruce-style shock routine.
I don't understand how a person cannot like Seinfeld, though. It is troubling.

[Sasha]

its just not funny... but then i'm an british comedy rules fundamentalist.
i mean: python, blackadder, young ones, not the nine o clock news, fry and laurie, QI, have i got news, catherin tate etc etc, all briliant (not to say there isnt english shite, the office and litle britain come to mind most prominent)

only briliant american show i can come up with: simpsons.
quite/pretty good american shows: southpark, the boondocks, 3th rock from the sun, malcolm in the midle, futurama, daily show, im sure there is more.

[Dimentio]

I am contemplating to change my username to "Edmund Blackadder" by the way ^^

[Invincible Summer]

its just not funny... but then i'm an british comedy rules fundamentalist.
i mean: python, blackadder, young ones, not the nine o clock news, fry and laurie, QI, have i got news, catherin tate etc etc, all briliant (not to say there isnt english shite, the office and litle britain come to mind most prominent)

only briliant american show i can come up with: simpsons.
quite/pretty good american shows: southpark, the boondocks, 3th rock from the sun, malcolm in the midle, futurama, daily show, im sure there is more.

You hate Seinfeld but like Malcolm in the Middle???

:crying:

Oh you should check out the Colbert Report if you like the Daily Show.

[punisa]

I like Seinfeld, it's very funny and laid back :)
I especially like the overall relationship between Jerry and Elaine - it always reminds me of cool girls I used to consider very good friends, but eventually it all went the wrong way because of romantic and/or sexual involvement. Sometimes I miss that and envy Jerry :laugh:

[Pawn Power]

yuppie scum.

[scarletghoul]

I never seen this "seinfeld", however it probably was not intended to critique capitalism.

These observations, about the bordom, consumerism etc, in other words the whole marxist theory of alienation, appear in many things, not just comedy tv shows. Theyre stuff a lot of people notice on their own without reading marx or situationism or whatever. They dont usually know that theyre pointing out capitalist alienation (many of the people probably support capitalism). These things are just obvious observations that anyone can make whether they are familiar with marxist theory or not. Same way a worker might hate his boss without having to read Das Kapital.

Our job as commies is to explain why this alienation exists and how it can be destroyed.

[bayano]

im no longer a seinfeld fan. cant watch it ever since michael kramer- well, everytime kramers on the screen i just hear him screaming the n-word.

but i was wondering if anyone could help me with a little trivia. i know there were a couple communist episodes (the one where elaine dates a trotsky, who somehow likes stalin). can anyone remember in which episode george and jerry compare george's hair to mao's? please, help me, you're my only hope

[Weezer]

Excuse me? Nobody remembers the Festivus episode when Kramer goes on strike? He even mentions the word 'solidarity.'

Although I do recall an episode where George said something about Lenin, and Jerry said in response: "Communism didn't work."

Kramer is a revolutionary.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Curb Your Enthusiasm > Seinfeld

[NoOneIsIllegal]

I'm apperantly not allowed to post links yet, so take out the asterisk.
*youtube.com/watch?v=DrqcUeTcmH4