Engels; The Origin of the Family, State and Private Property

[Lyev]

I'm reading this book at the moment. I can understand clearly why ancient society, and the way it develops (i.e. savagery > barbarism > civilization) as expounded by Lewis H Morgan is relevant. This is a historical materialist look at the way society has developed and matured, as technology, new land, new animals etc are discovered. And as the population grows their wants and needs do as well. However, I cannot for the life of me figure out why the progression of the composition of family is at all relevant. What on earth has it got to do with private property or the state? Is it something to do with the subjugation of women in the ancient family; and this sets a precedent for caste-based society? I just really don't see why families are pertinent for Engels' analysis of history. Perhaps I am being really dumb, or missing out something obvious here, it'd be lovely if someone could point me in the right direction here. Thanks, comrades.

[Joe_Germinal]

I'm not sure how far you've gotten, but I recommend that you keep going until the end. Morgan's anthropology was current at the time Engels was writing; however, these days its hopelessly outdated. Nevertheless, Morgan's account of the stages of human development and civilization is just a convenient empirical springboard for the brilliant (and I think still relevant) theory Engels develops later in the work.

Namely, Engels argues that the structure of the family at any point in human development functions as part of the property system. For example, the concept of monogamy arises because, at a certain stage in economic development, property begins to be passed from father to son. As a result, men begin to demand (and a social norm arises) that women restrict themselves to one sexual partner so that any particular man can be sure that his children are legitimate.

[el_chavista]

.. What on earth has it got to do [the family]with private property or the state? ..
Think a little of the modern bourgeois matrimony. It actually is a legal contract dealing with the property of the spouses.
And is it not too much coincidentally that all societies with class struggles began with the patriarchal family?
Family-clan-tribe-state, is it not the order of "progression of civilization"?

[Kléber]

What on earth has it got to do with private property or the state? Is it something to do with the subjugation of women in the ancient family; and this sets a precedent for caste-based society?
Yes, pretty much. Not so much sets a precedent as is an integral part of the process. He goes into more detail in chapter 9.

[Lyev]

Right, so I'll keep going, and go back a page or two. It's just I was reading through all that outdated bollocks about families and I just thought ":confused:WTF?" and skipped like 100 pages, to the good stuff on private property and the state.

[Wolf Larson]

Right, so I'll keep going, and go back a page or two. It's just I was reading through all that outdated bollocks about families and I just thought ":confused:WTF?" and skipped like 100 pages, to the good stuff on private property and the state.

I've been posting about Caral in Peru in a few forums. Has anyone seen a a Marxist critique of Caral? It is now considered the first step in human civilization and they existed for 1,000 years in peace. http://www.documentary-film.net/search/watch.php?&ref=205 Check it out^