Anarchists, how would you handle education?

[Uppercut]

This is something that's been on my mind for a while now. I know anarchists don't believe in compulsory schooling, so how would the masses be educated enough to take care of themselves in a self-managed society?

I know people could go to school if they wanted to under anarchy, but do you think it'll be enough for people to become self-sufficient (perform basic medical procedures, repair household appliances and vehicles, self-defense, etc.)?

[Havet]

I did a thread about this a while ago, I hope you don't mind if I post it so you go take a look:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/democratic-education-t127005/index.html?t=127005

[Ovi]

This is something that's been on my mind for a while now. I know anarchists don't believe in compulsory schooling, so how would the masses be educated enough to take care of themselves in a self-managed society?

I know people could go to school if they wanted to under anarchy, but do you think it'll be enough for people to become self-sufficient (perform basic medical procedures, repair household appliances and vehicles, self-defense, etc.)?
You mean not being forced to assist meaningless classes that you hate and will never help in anything you'll do and instead choose what you want to learn and with whom? We would be light years away without being dumbed down by the current education system, that's for sure.

[Uppercut]

You mean not being forced to assist meaningless classes that you hate and will never help in anything you'll do and instead choose what you want to learn and with whom? We would be light years away without being dumbed down by the current education system, that's for sure.

I agree that our current education system sucks (too much standardization, creativity is suppressed, meaningless classes, etc.). But I think it should be mandatory to learn basic life skills in schools like the ones i listed above. My concern is that if education is purely a choice, will these skills ever be learned? Maybe some people will just not want to learn anything at all and be lazy their whole lives.

[Skooma Addict]

But I think it should be mandatory to learn basic life skills in schools like the ones i listed above.

What should be done with the people who refuse?

[Agnapostate]

Well, it's not as though we can even consider a consequence that doesn't involve burning.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Why wouldn't anarchists believe in compulsory schooling? Sure, you might make it possible to choose not to go to school, but that's just a matter of respecting freedoms. The goal has to be to get 100%, or close to, attendance in education amongst youth. And furthermore, education should be a lifelong process. People working at the local mill should have time designated where someone teaches them about politics and workers rights, new industry techniques, etc.

Nothing frustrates me more than a person who has worked twenty to forty years in an industry that doesn't ensure its workers are knowleagable about the most up to date practices. No one would want a doctor who doesn't know about any medical developments since twenty years ago. Why would you want any lower standard for other professions?

And the nonsense about people not liking education is, quite simply, nonsense. That's altogether the result of how education is organized. It's quite evident people are naturally prone towards learning.

[StalinFanboy]

I'm not sure why there needs to be a separate time and institution for learning. This should be something that is fluid with the rest of our activities.

[ComradeMan]

I must admit, I was never aware that anarchists opposed education outright, I think the critique has been of education as it as been applied and not per se.

[Uppercut]

Sure, you might make it possible to choose not to go to school, but that's just a matter of respecting freedoms.

I think that's a bit too much freedom. I'm not gonna lie.


The goal has to be to get 100%, or close to, attendance in education amongst youth.

Then why not just make them go? With reformed education, students might actually want to go to school by offering a wider variety of classes, including expansion of the arts programs, dancing, medical, architecture, etc.. That way students can get a taste of what they want to do in life, and they can move on to secondary schooling if they choose. I'm not saying everybody should be forced to take the same classes, per se, but I think kids absolutely have to go to school for a period of time to learn one thing or another.

[revolution inaction]

This is something that's been on my mind for a while now. I know anarchists don't believe in compulsory schooling, so how would the masses be educated enough to take care of themselves in a self-managed society?

i dont see anything un anarchist about compulsory education for young children at least. its not like they have the experience or knowledge to make an informed decision about it anyway.
Of cause it is better if children want to learn, and if education is done well then probable the overwhelming majority of them will.




I know people could go to school if they wanted to under anarchy, but do you think it'll be enough for people to become self-sufficient (perform basic medical procedures, repair household appliances and vehicles, self-defense, etc.)?
self sufficiency is not possible, and has noting to do with anarchism.

[Ovi]

I agree that our current education system sucks (too much standardization, creativity is suppressed, meaningless classes, etc.). But I think it should be mandatory to learn basic life skills in schools like the ones i listed above. My concern is that if education is purely a choice, will these skills ever be learned? Maybe some people will just not want to learn anything at all and be lazy their whole lives.
This is not different from the fear that making work a choice, everybody would watch tv all day and do nothing useful, a dumb anti-communist argument. I am against what we call work, which is only a drag to us, something we're forced to do, alienates us, brings little satisfaction and much of it only exists to keep this system alive. The same thing can be said about the current education system: we are forced to attend courses we don't need, get punished for not submitting the way they would like us to and we have no saying in the issues that directly affect us, such as what to study and with what teachers. If something as important to us such as education and labor only exist as boring and unpleasant activities then we're certainly doing them wrong.

[Uppercut]

self sufficiency is not possible, and has noting to do with anarchism.

Why do you think self-sufficiency is impossible? If people can perform tasks themselves, instead of paying others to do it for them, then there won't be such a need for specialization, which will decrease the division of labor.

[Havet]

This is not different from the fear that making work a choice, everybody would watch tv all day and do nothing useful, a dumb anti-communist argument. I am against what we call work, which is only a drag to us, something we're forced to do, alienates us, brings little satisfaction and much of it only exists to keep this system alive. The same thing can be said about the current education system: we are forced to attend courses we don't need, get punished for not submitting the way they would like us to and we have no saying in the issues that directly affect us, such as what to study and with what teachers. If something as important to us such as education and labor only exist as boring and unpleasant activities then we're certainly doing them wrong.

Aren't people always forced to work? The threat of starvation is always imminent, isn't it? If someone does not contribute to the commune, they will not receive the benefits and will die of hunger, right?

[ComradeMan]

Aren't people always forced to work? The threat of starvation is always imminent, isn't it? If someone does not contribute to the commune, they will not receive the benefits and will die of hunger, right?

Come on hayenmill, you can do better than that can't you? :D

If we we're on the subject, you could say life was forced upon us because we were not given a choice whether to be born or not!

You know full well the difference between the necessity of work and the obligation of work.

To take the line that people are by nature lazy etc is a classic reactionary one taken against anarchists in particular, which Malatesta deals with too, it also shows utter contempt for people as a whole and is very classist.

An anarcho-communist view would be that given the freedom to contribute in a way that suited people the most according to their talents they would actually be more willing to work and would do their work better. Let your artists be artists and let your ploughmen be ploughmen etc.

Another factor to take into consideration is that a lot of work might well become obsolete- hedge fund managers for example :rolleyes:!

If you look at certain tribal/nomadic peoples- the "original" peoples if you like, some of their societies are very non-hierarchical and yet everyone contributes in their own way for the COMMON good. And before some smart ass comes out with the line, yeah well, they don't have to manage complex financial institutions etc....true...likewise hedge fund managers don't have to know by memory 500 plants, their medicinal uses, where to find them and when to harvest them and how to prepare and use them etc....

[Havet]

You know full well the difference between the necessity of work and the obligation of work.


I know the difference, but many commies here don't. You ought to explain it to them.

[ls]

Aren't people always forced to work? The threat of starvation is always imminent, isn't it? If someone does not contribute to the commune, they will not receive the benefits and will die of hunger, right?

You probably think they should be shot right? After all, a free market is the "real" anarchist position isn't it and people must work otherwise they will suffer. :rolleyes:

Anyway, education in practice isn't ever particularly compulsory, you can usually get around the measures designed to "force kids to school" if you really want and I'm sure you can, in much more strict societies than this one (where it is pathetically easy for anyone to bunk any class they want). As for the schooling itself, it should basically have good teachers and an unbiased curriculum that statistically, is a balance between core subjects and what people want to know (for instance, history class would be a million times more interesting than the crap they usually teach you in it, classes based on history could be multifold; you can choose the history that interests in addition to the compulsory, core history).

90% of that write-from-the-board work should just be cut out, it serves no purpose other than to bore people. A much better way to hammer something into your head is to study it again and again in purposeful, direct and powerful revision that you concentrate into a short time everyday.

[Raúl Duke]

The neighborhood assemblies decide how education in society would be handled and the schools will be run by the teachers and students.

After some experimentation, perhaps we would reach an educational system that works


I must admit, I was never aware that anarchists opposed education outright, I think the critique has been of education as it as been applied and not per se.

Anarchists aren't opposed to education outright, they advocate it in fact.
But only in forms similar to free schools (sudbury model) and such.
Plus, there's probably division on the question whether school should be mandatory/compulsory.
In fact, one figure around the time of the Spanish Civil War wrote about education (in an anarchist manner of sorts) and operate free schools in Spain until he was executed.

[Havet]

You probably think they should be shot right? After all, a free market is the "real" anarchist position isn't it and people must work otherwise they will suffer.

:rolleyes:

[Omi]

I am schooled in an anarchist-based high school. We get our diplomas, and the school is (or was) largely organised and run by the students together with the teachers. That changed though, because of monetary problems and the institutionalising of the school. Now we fall under the roof of a new school system that's being worked on in our city, and a new board of directors is ruining the school by passing regulations that are contradictory to the school's aims and goals.

The school is not perfect, but the main problems we face nowadays are primarily due to involvement of the society we currently reside in, i.e. capitalism. The problems are universal and I don't know one individual who has not faced them.

There are many such schools in Europe, and they all face the same problems, due to capitalist oppression.