The reach of the Roman Empire

[Bilan]

Perhaps further than thought:


ARCHAEOLOGISTS have found the 2000-year-old skeleton of an Asian man in a cemetery in Italy, suggesting that the Roman Empire's reach was far more extensive than previously thought.

Although the Romans are known to have traded for silk and exotic spices with China, it was thought that most of the commerce was conducted through intermediaries along the Silk Route and that no Chinese or other Asians entered the empire itself.

That orthodoxy will now have to be re-examined after a Canadian team analysed bone DNA and found that the man came from East Asia, suggesting that Chinese or even Japanese rubbed shoulders with Gauls, Vandals, Visigoths and Nubians who made up the Roman Empire's polyglot population.

''This discovery poses many questions about globalisation and the movement of people in Roman times,'' said Tracy Prowse from McMaster University in Canada.

Source (http://www.smh.com.au/world/dna-finding-reveals-asians-in-roman-empire-20100206-njvs.html).

Anyone heard anything else about this?

[Tifosi]

Mabye this person was just a one off or part of a small group of people that came to Europe from East Asia? It wouldn't be impossable for someone to travel from one place to another in those day's. I bet my money that this person was trading and died on his travel's. You can travel more than one way on the silk route you know:).

Has there ever been a European found in China from around Roman time's or even before the Roman's?

[bailey_187]

I watched a documentary a while ago about a group of Roman soldiers that were captured in battle and sold as slaves and ended up in China. Maybe a similar situation happened.

[manic expression]

This is pretty cool, but not all that surprising, actually. People think of Greece, for example, as the edge of the "Western World", but really it was as much the western edge of the "Eastern World" in many ways. In the Roman period in Egypt, there was a considerable Hindu community in Alexandria...they were called "Indic Believers". One convert to Hinduism immolated himself at one of the Olympic games and was the "talk of the town" for a time. The Roman fascination with silk is also pretty suggestive of Chinese exchanges to the Roman Empire. After all, Syria was a stronghold of Roman culture and influence, and Syria is right next to Persia, which leads right into India (which was partially conquered by a Macedonian not so long before then) and the southwestern reaches of China.

The world of antiquity has scintillated imaginations for ages, and this just adds to the allure of the "glory that was Rome". Very neat stuff, thanks for posting.

Oh, and one last thing: the international character of the Roman Empire really pokes a huge hole in some of the nativist/anti-immigrant arguments of the right wing. Europe has always been a crossroads of many peoples from within and without the continent, and Europe's greatest Empire was likely the most diverse of them all. I mean, an African and an Arab sat as Emperors of Rome...something to bear in mind the next time someone tries to convince you that Europe is some sort of static, unchanging continent with a static, unchanging collection of peoples.

[Dimentio]

Perhaps further than thought:



Source (http://www.smh.com.au/world/dna-finding-reveals-asians-in-roman-empire-20100206-njvs.html).

Anyone heard anything else about this?

The Roman Empire was not an isolationist entity. The Romans knew very well about the coasts of the Indian Ocean, as Sri Lanka was a major trading centre. Through Egypt, they traded with India and China. The Chinese also sent at least two emissaries to Persia and Rome through the Silk Route, both in the first century BC and the second century AD. The Chinese referred to Rome as "Daqin" (meaning "The Great Middle Kingdom"), hailing it as some sort of civilised counterpart to China.

Roman merchants were also very active as far north as southern Sweden and Ireland.

[Belisarius]

i've also heard once about the Romans in the more southern parts of Africa. There have been in cities like Zanzibar, Mombassa and Mogadishu. These cities were slave-trade-centers.

[Dimentio]

i've also heard once about the Romans in the more southern parts of Africa. There have been in cities like Zanzibar, Mombassa and Mogadishu. These cities were slave-trade-centers.

That is very probable, given the Roman access to the Red Sea. The Romans were not explorers though. Their Carthaginian rivals had actually sailed around Africa and almost reached the Caribbean before the Roman Empire was established.

[Kléber]

How did they find out this guy was "East Asian?" Last I checked, it was almost impossible to figure out ethnic background from DNA alone. This sounds like another waste of time like the Kennewick Man. And on top of that as some people have said it's not very surprising at all.


an African and an Arab sat as Emperors of Rome
There were some African and Middle Eastern emperors, but they weren't black or Arab, they were Roman colonists from the provinces.

Who was the Arab Emperor? There was little Arab political presence outside of the Arabian Peninsula itself until the Islamic conquests of the Seventh Century, and all Roman attempts to invade Arabia during antiquity failed miserably.


Their Carthaginian rivals had actually sailed around Africa and almost reached the Caribbean before the Roman Empire was established.
Source? The Carthaginians definitely had an impressive maritime tradition, but I'd never heard they got that far, except in the 18th-Century stories that explained the Mesoamerican pyramids were built by Phoenicians. :P

[Red Commissar]

Who was the Arab Emperor? There was little Arab political presence outside of the Arabian Peninsula itself until the Islamic conquests of the Seventh Century, and all Roman attempts to invade Arabia during antiquity failed miserably.

I think he is referring to "Philip the Arab" from modern-day Syria. He had some bloodlines that would link him to the tribes which migrated from the Arab peninsula to the area before Roman conquest.

[Il Medico]

You lot might be interested in this map I ran across the other day.
http://www.johomaps.com/world/worldhistoryc100ad.jpg

[JacobVardy]

Source? The Carthaginians definitely had an impressive maritime tradition, but I'd never heard they got that far, except in the 18th-Century stories that explained the Mesoamerican pyramids were built by Phoenicians. :P

For the Phoenicians circumnavigating Africa i think the best source you are going to get for this is Herodotus. However, i recall coming across this in other primary sources - i can not remember which ones.

I always took this to be an ancient urban myth.

[Il Medico]

For the Phoenicians circumnavigating Africa i think the best source you are going to get for this is Herodotus. However, i recall coming across this in other primary sources - i can not remember which ones.

I always took this to be an ancient urban myth.
There is no good reason why it couldn't happen, Phoenicians did get quite far north as well. However, I think skepticism is best when all you have to base it on is Herodotus.

[JacobVardy]

However, I think skepticism is best when all you have to base it on is Herodotus.

Yeah, i think its better to treat Herodotus as a sociologist than a historian. He tried to record what people said, not what he thought was true.

[Devrim]

ARCHAEOLOGISTS have found the 2000-year-old skeleton of an Asian man in a cemetery in Italy, suggesting that the Roman Empire's reach was far more extensive than previously thought.

Although the Romans are known to have traded for silk and exotic spices with China, it was thought that most of the commerce was conducted through intermediaries along the Silk Route and that no Chinese or other Asians entered the empire itself.

That orthodoxy will now have to be re-examined after a Canadian team analysed bone DNA and found that the man came from East Asia, suggesting that Chinese or even Japanese rubbed shoulders with Gauls, Vandals, Visigoths and Nubians who made up the Roman Empire's polyglot population.

''This discovery poses many questions about globalisation and the movement of people in Roman times,'' said Tracy Prowse from McMaster University in Canada.

Maybe the title to this thread should be the reach of the Han Empire as it was the Asian man found in Rome not vice versa.

Devrim

[JacobVardy]

Maybe the title to this thread should be the reach of the Han Empire as it was the Asian man found in Rome not vice versa.

Devrim

2000 years could well predate the Han Dynasty and hegemony.