INLA gives up weapons

[scarletghoul]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ieland/8501929.stm

The Irish National Liberation Army has decommissioned its weapons, days before the body overseeing Northern Ireland paramilitary weapons ceases to exist.The move took place in recent weeks and is expected to be confirmed on Monday by the INLA and General John de Chastelain, head of the IICD.
The INLA was a small, ruthless group which killed more than 120 people, including Tory MP Airey Neave in 1979.
In October, it said it would pursue its aims by exclusively peaceful means.
The republican paramilitary group is believed to have been responsible for 111 murders from its formation in 1975 until its ceasefire in 1998, but it is still thought to have been involved in a number of murders since then.
As recently as February 2009, the INLA claimed responsibility for the murder of a drug dealer in Londonderry.
It came to world prominence in 1979 with the murder of Conservative Northern Ireland spokesman Airey Neave by leaving a bomb under his car in the House of Commons car park.
It was behind one of Northern Ireland's worst atrocities when it killed 17 people in a bomb attack on the Droppin' Well pub in Ballykelly, County Londonderry, in 1982.
The group's political wing, the Irish Republican Socialist Party held a parade in Bray, County Wicklow, four months ago and announced that the organisation had renounced violence.
At present paramilitaries moving weapons can use a certificate from the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning (IICD) saying they are moving arms from one cache to another to facilitate decommissioning.
On 9 February, the legislation that allows the IICD to operate ends and any weapons found after that date can be forensically tested.
Evidence from this could be used in future court cases and possibly help secure convictions.
Last month the loyalist paramilitary group the Ulster Defence Association (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8442683.stm) also decommissioned.
The government had made it clear to the UDA that after the legislation expired that they would be treated as common criminals that the police would actively seek their weapons.


Pretty gutted about this :(
Though it hasn't emerged exactly why they are decommissioning.. Has gotta be something to do with the devolution deal thats goin on but I dunno, it is pretty annoying.

[LeninBalls]

Don't see much use for the IRSM now.

[LeninBalls]

.

[Mindtoaster]

Do IRSM members have any comment?

There was alot of talk after the announced end to armed struggle that there would be no decomissioning

[fionntan]

SOl is full of shit he was told this balls the INLA are no more.. And he is most definitely not the "vanguard"...

[The Red]

Good to hear, hopefully democracy and devolution can now take it's course.

[chegitz guevara]

The previous period of armed struggle is clearly over in Ireland. You're in a different phase of struggle, and have been for over a decade. Really, it's time to let it go, focus on the struggle in front of you, for a socialist Ireland.

[h0m0revolutionary]

The previous period of armed struggle is clearly over in Ireland. You're in a different phase of struggle, and have been for over a decade. Really, it's time to let it go, focus on the struggle in front of you, for a socialist Ireland.

Phase of different struggle??

Armed groups ceding their weapons over to decommissioning is always a bad move, as much as I have no faith in INLA, arms moving away from working class people leaves them in the hands of the state. If the state has a monopoly on arms, it doesn't take a genious to figure out how little coercion they need to make working class people accept shit.

Does that make sense? dont care, im high :D

[Ravachol]

Phase of different struggle??

Armed groups ceding their weapons over to decommissioning is always a bad move, as much as I have no faith in INLA, arms moving away from working class people leaves them in the hands of the state. If the state has a monopoly on arms, it doesn't take a genious to figure out how little coercion they need to make working class people accept shit.

Does that make sense? dont care, im high :D

This, despite the minor publicity gains it not only legitimizes the imperialist monitoring commision, it also leaves a socialist movement (I'm hesitant to call it popular as I'm not informed enough about the size and state of their mass-work Ie. Unions, Community programs,etc) without arms leaving the bourgoisie state to be the sole arbiter of physical force.

[scarletghoul]

Yeah its true, the state monopoly on arms is always bad for the workers. However i think maybe an assumption being made by some of the irish leadership is that the state itself in NI has changed qualititively in the irish interest with the devolutioin of the justice and policing department, so maybe they see it as a good compromise i dunno im drunk


c) without arms leaving the bourgoisie state to be the sole arbiter of physical force.
yeah see thats my point, its not just a question of bourgeoisie vs proletarians, its also a question of national oppression. and the national question is at the forefront in most irish minds

[Soldier of life]

SOl is full of shit he was told this balls the INLA are no more.. And he is most definitely not the "vanguard"...

No the 32csm are LOL

And to clarify, I have seen no INLA statement on the matter so people would be best served waiting for the IRSM to actually make a statement on the subject rather than just speculating on an internet forum.

[MaoTseHelen]

If this turns out to be true... the INLA are nothing, and will go down in the history as cowards, same as the Provisionals - who gave up and surrendered to the State when things weren't comfortable.

[Soldier of life]

If this turns out to be true... the INLA are nothing, and will go down in the history as cowards, same as the Provisionals - who gave up and surrendered to the State when things weren't comfortable.

:blink:

I'd say things are alot more comfortable now than say in the 70s and 80s, when both the IRA and INLA were shooting Brits.

[MaoTseHelen]

:blink:

I'd say things are alot more comfortable now than say in the 70s and 80s, when both the IRA and INLA were shooting Brits.

There's far less support, both from foreign arms dealers and from the populace as a whole, so all the "brave and bold" are packing their shit and calling it peace. It's achieved nothing. The South and North are disturbingly segregated, political awareness is shot, and rather than do anything about it the INLA has what? Decided to hand over their guns?

A disarmed populace are lambs to the slaughter.


The only good bureaucrat is one with a pistol at his head. Put it in his hand and it's good-bye to the Bill of Rights.

[Soldier of life]

There's far less support, both from foreign arms dealers and from the populace as a whole, so all the "brave and bold" are packing their shit and calling it peace. It's achieved nothing. The South and North are disturbingly segregated, political awareness is shot, and rather than do anything about it the INLA has what? Decided to hand over their guns?

A disarmed populace are lambs to the slaughter.


Still the point remains, the times now are alot more comfortable for Republicans/Socialists in Ireland, so your point there is wrong.

[MaoTseHelen]

Are you really trying to say it's worth letting British rule remain as long as it's comfortable? It doesn't matter if the Irish are being housed in ghettos or estates, it only matters that they're being governed by themselves, and only themselves. If the Irps take to the line of supporting further disarmament of the people, they will be hurting any ability to resist not only state terror, but religious violence as well.

The mistakes of the Originals playing out in their splitters. What fucking joy.

[PRC-UTE]

I don't believe the INLA will get rid of all weapons. We haven't survived this long by being fools.

But I do think a re-branding is necessary in this climate.

[Soldier of life]

Are you really trying to say it's worth letting British rule remain as long as it's comfortable? It doesn't matter if the Irish are being housed in ghettos or estates, it only matters that they're being governed by themselves, and only themselves. If the Irps take to the line of supporting further disarmament of the people, they will be hurting any ability to resist not only state terror, but religious violence as well.

The mistakes of the Originals playing out in their splitters. What fucking joy.

No I'm not, stop making stuff up like a good lad.

I'm saying it's actually a more comfortable situation being a Republican now than it was in the 70s and 80s, speaking generally that is. This isn't exactly something anyone would dispute. Pointing out this fact is not me endorsing British rule, what are you on about? Occupations throughout time are bound to change in nature, sometimes the level of repression is more extreme than at other times. This of course does not mean the occupation must not be ended, it stating an obvious fact. To suggest it is now the INLA are making this decision because they aren't 'comfortable' just shows you don't know what you're on about. Woulda thought during the feud with the sticks for example it was a little more uncomfortable.

[Devrim]

Are you really trying to say it's worth letting British rule remain as long as it's comfortable? It doesn't matter if the Irish are being housed in ghettos or estates, it only matters that they're being governed by themselves, and only themselves. If the Irps take to the line of supporting further disarmament of the people, they will be hurting any ability to resist not only state terror, but religious violence as well.

Actually to most people the material conditions in their lives are of up-most importance. One of the key points at the emergence of the 'troubles' back in the sixties was inequality in jobs and housing. These things have more resonance with most people than who governs them. What does it matter to people what nationality their governors are?

The INLA are not disarming 'the people'. 'The people' have never been armed in Northern Ireland. Different political factions have. They are disarming themselves.

To be honest I find people cheering on armed struggle from far away when they don't have to bear the consequences on the ground pretty sickening.

Devrim

[fionntan]

No I'm not, stop making stuff up like a good lad.

I'm saying it's actually a more comfortable situation being a Republican now than it was in the 70s and 80s, speaking generally that is. This isn't exactly something anyone would dispute. Pointing out this fact is not me endorsing British rule, what are you on about? Occupations throughout time are bound to change in nature, sometimes the level of repression is more extreme than at other times. This of course does not mean the occupation must not be ended, it stating an obvious fact. To suggest it is now the INLA are making this decision because they aren't 'comfortable' just shows you don't know what you're on about. Woulda thought during the feud with the sticks for example it was a little more uncomfortable.



So all the gear is not away SOL Some still kept:thumbup1: The conditions are the same the war wasn't/isn't being fought for civil rights for catholics.

[Ravachol]

Actually to most people the material conditions in their lives are of up-most importance. One of the key points at the emergence of the 'troubles' back in the sixties was inequality in jobs and housing. These things have more resonance with most people than who governs them. What does it matter to people what nationality their governors are?

The INLA are not disarming 'the people'. 'The people' have never been armed in Northern Ireland. Different political factions have. They are disarming themselves.

To be honest I find people cheering on armed struggle from far away when they don't have to bear the consequences on the ground pretty sickening.

Devrim

Despite our differences regarding struggles of national liberation I agree with you on a few points here:

1. 'the people' (although I dislike that term due to the blurring of class-lines) have never been armed in NI., although I'm kind of sympathetic towards the IRSM it's never consisted of worker's militias. That being said, I still prefer seeing the INLA with arms as opposed to a situation where the INLA is without arms and the state and British imperialist forces having a monopoly on physical force.

2. People should indeed be carefull to go around cheering for physical force and all it's nasty consequences (With nasty consequences I'm referring to the consequences for the republicans involved in the struggle, the NI. Working class' conditions due to increased repression, retaliation attacks,etc I couldn't give to shits about the 'consequences' for capitalistis, imperialists and loyalist paramilitaries). Armed struggle is a serious matter that's easy to applaud and cheer for from a distance but for those involved it's not that simple. So calling dedicated republicans 'sellouts' for laying low on the armed struggle (if only for tactical reasons) isn't the way to go.
Also, assuming the INLA doesn't really decommission all it's arms, this differs from the sticks mistake of going purely parliamentary. Ceasing offensive military operations isn't the same as the sticks' decision to fully disarm and throw away it's possibility of defensive military operations which left republican neighbourhoods open to loyalist lynchmobs.

3.
These things have more resonance with most people than who governs them. What does it matter to people what nationality their governors are? None I hope. Trading British governors for 'Irish' ones would be utter insanity, Connolly agreed on this. This is however no reason for tuning down the anti-imperialist line. It's perfectly compatible with the desire to get rid of Irish governors as well.

[ls]

Good to hear, hopefully democracy and devolution can now take it's course.

The same democracy and devolution which has even further divided the Ulster working-class?

[Comrade B]

Good to hear, hopefully democracy and devolution can now take it's course.
I hope this is sarcasm

[Saorsa]

I'm confident that the IRSM will adapt to the conditions of this period in the way it needs to, while remaining prepared for any future change in these conditions. The armed struggle is over, at least for the foreseeable future. This is not a surrender, and as SOL said, we should wait until the INLA issues a statement on the matter before we start speculating.

[Soldier of life]

So all the gear is not away SOL Some still kept:thumbup1: The conditions are the same the war wasn't/isn't being fought for civil rights for catholics.

I wouldn't know on the first part, all is just speculation until the INLA statement is released.

And on your second point, ya of course I agree the war the Provos and Irps fought was not about civil rights or 'smashing the orange state' as many SF revisionist like to paint it as, it was about a United Socialist Republic and the fight for that goes on. However having said that, it is without question not as bad for Republicans generally as it was say, during internment or during the war in the 70s and 80s so the poster I replied to was incorrect that the IRSM are making some kind of decision when it is most uncomfortable when events like the stick feud was surely less comfortable for the irps but they stuck it out.

As I said occupation often will have different levels of repression as time goes by, the struggle was always and will continue to be about a Socialist United Ireland and not power sharing with sectarian scum.

[MaoTseHelen]

Actually to most people the material conditions in their lives are of up-most importance.Good to know populism should come before everything else. When it's popular to take oaths of allegiance, I suppose we ought to do that as well?

This is why the Left never takes off within this country. Sheer spinelessness when it counts.

[Revy]

MaoTseHelen, what are you doing? It's easy to bash them. Why don't you organize your own army...oh wait.

Maybe they're not using their weapons anymore because they don't need to. You can't force a revolution onto the masses. Irish people still support the Unionists, Sinn Fein, Fianna Fail, Fine Gael. They can do better things as a party winning people from those bourgeois parties.

And before you go on about elections, I'm not suggesting elections are the road to socialism. However, a vanguard party can be built. Moving beyond the conflict that was set up...forging class unity, instead of running off with guns and maybe killing a few junkies like all the "brave" IRA groups do. maybe some of those groups kill a few police or soldiers but that really won't make a revolution or even united Ireland happen will it?

Since 2000, 10 years ago!, the IRSP has held the position that guerrilla warfare or focoism is not a road to socialism. That the socialist revolution will be fought by the masses.

[MaoTseHelen]

Maybe they're not using their weapons anymore because they don't need to.Fair enough, the problem is they went farther and gave them up. Different responses for different actions. And I personally think the way forward is to spread social/political awareness as well as keeping heat on the security services, I don't think you have to give up one to achieve the other, and this is where I've found myself personally diverging a lot from the IRSP.

Some people keep blathering on about how the INLA can re-arm even if they give up the current stockpile 'in a short time' but there's absolutely no point to going that route. You can't fight a revolution without arms; there's no republican or socialist argument for surrendering arms.

[Soldier of life]

Fair enough, the problem is they went farther and gave them up. Different responses for different actions. And I personally think the way forward is to spread social/political awareness as well as keeping heat on the security services, I don't think you have to give up one to achieve the other, and this is where I've found myself personally diverging a lot from the IRSP.

Some people keep blathering on about how the INLA can re-arm even if they give up the current stockpile 'in a short time' but there's absolutely no point to going that route. You can't fight a revolution without arms; there's no republican or socialist argument for surrendering arms.

Actually, there is, and the poster you just replied to gave a decent one there. Whether I agree with giving up arms at this time or not, there certainly is a tangible argument for it. The INLA have a terrible reputation particularly in the South, it is so bad that it drives the very people the IRSM wants to represent as a whole away from the politics of Republican Socialism. And as declared above the IRSM does not believe a focoist approach will yield any reward, as past campaigns and the current 'war' demonstrate, so there is definately an argument for the INLA to go away for the foreseeable future so as to facilitate the growth of the IRSP and thus spread and gain credibility for Republican Socialist politics across Ireland.

[Soldier of life]

Statement from the leadership of the
Irish National Liberation Army

On the issue of weapons held by the INLA.


The Irish National Liberation Army, as part of the Irish Republican Socialist Movement, was formed in December 1974 in order to bring about a 32 County Socialist Republic on the island of Ireland. Since then many sacrifices were made by our volunteers, dozens were killed and many hundreds jailed and exiled as a result of their revolutionary activity. We would like to commend our volunteers past and present, for their courage and steadfastness in the face of overwhelming odds and adversity. At various stages during the conflict the volunteer soldiers of the INLA took the war to the heart of the British establishment and to their military, political and capitalist apparatus in Ireland.

Our actions helped bring an end to Unionist one party rule in the six counties and like all other parties to the conflict our members have suffered, have been killed, imprisoned, died on hunger strike and marginalized – but never broken nor defeated. We pay tribute to our fallen comrades who gave their lives in the struggle, we also pay tribute to their families and share their pride and sorrow. We also salute the courage and steadfastness of all of our supporters who risked and sacrificed so much.

The nature of the conflict in the north of Ireland for a generation dictated that armed struggle was the only option available to those who wished to bring down a corrupt and stubborn regime and to remove the British occupation from Ireland and we make no apology for our part in the conflict. We believe that conditions have now changed in such a way that other options are open to revolutionaries in order to pursue and ultimately achieve our objectives.

Revolutionaries must continually analyse and adapt to the prevailing conditions of the day. To fail to do so will ultimately mean that the failures of the past will be repeated. James Connolly said in 1915; "We believe in constitutional action in normal times; we believe in revolutionary action in exceptional times." We do not see the continuing occupation of the six counties as acceptable and no nation should be occupied by any foreign imperialist state but we do believe that the retention of INLA weapons at this time clearly alienates a large section of the working class on the island of Ireland from the struggle to build socialism. We see it as our duty as revolutionaries to persuade the working class that there exists massive benefits in embracing socialism and building a republic that embraces all the children of the nation equally and that is something worth fighting for. We believe that as the battlefield has changed then so too must our tactics. We will continue our !
struggle to bring about the republic for which so many of our comrades gave their lives pursuing.

The circumstances which brought about the need for armed conflict have changed radically. We, along with other republicans, can claim some credit for the progress that has been made. In particular the recent decommissioning of loyalist weapons can be traced back to the INLA’s imaginative “no first strike” policy of 1994.

The INLA have now been on cease-fire for almost twelve years and in recent times has been engaged in a process of in-depth consultation and collective debate, locally, nationally and internationally. On 11th October 2009 the INLA announced that our military war was over concluding that the time was right to reaffirm the primacy of politics and clearly stating that it is our belief that armed struggle is not a viable option at this time.

We can now also confirm that the INLA has disarmed through a joint facilitation group consisting of a local, a national and an international organisation. This was done in a process in accordance with international standards. The joint facilitation group included; Creggan Enterprises Derry, The Irish Congress of Trade Unions and the Dialogue Advisory Group, Amsterdam, an international conflict resolution organisation.

We hope that this move will further enhance the primacy of politics as outlined in the Ta Power Document and that it will, in time, unite and advance the working class struggle in Ireland. We recognise that real, meaningful and lasting change will only be secured through radical political struggle from a united working class in Ireland. We remain committed to ending partition, eradicating sectarianism and uniting Ireland by building a viable working class alternative. We will seek to engage with all other progressive forces to work towards these ends. The volunteers of the INLA will not be found wanting in the continuing struggle for the liberation of the working class.

The INLA and the entire Republican Socialist Movement remains steadfastly opposed to the partitionist and sectarian set-up in the six counties. These moves by the INLA do not mean an acceptance of either Stormont or the political, policing and judicial structures in the north. We will continue to oppose these structures as vigorously as before through the primacy of politics. We remain steadfastly opposed to any British colonial policing in any part of Ireland.

Whilst our tactics are changing our objectives remain the same - the establishment of a 32 County Socialist Republic envisaged by generations of Republicans from Liam Mellows to Ta Power and from James Connolly to Seamus Costello. The tradition of Irish Republican Socialism remains and is growing. We are convinced that the northern state as a political entity is unworkable and we remain opposed to the Good Friday Agreement and it’s institutions which perpetuate sectarianism and division among our class.

All our comrades and activists will prosecute our struggle politically and with the same vigour with which they fought the British state in Ireland. We have fought the long war, let us now fight for an independent Irish society based on the principles of equality, social justice and lasting peace.

08-02-10
ENDS

[MaoTseHelen]

Whether I agree with giving up arms at this time or not, there certainly is a tangible argument for it.

There's an argument for anything; it doesn't mean it's a good argument. Just saying it'd be popular or help the IRSM regain some ground politically doesn't outweigh the danger involved in giving up all your weapons, especially with 28-day detention very much in effect again.

I'm sorry, I just don't see this as a defendable move. If anything people in the South saw the INLA as people with an actual cause, compared to the Reals or anyone else who're consistently referred to as drug dealers, scum, etc (however warranted or not).

This is really a shame, and it's a shame to see the leadership trying to explain it away under the guise of "the times".

[Devrim]

Good to know populism should come before everything else. When it's popular to take oaths of allegiance, I suppose we ought to do that as well?

This is why the Left never takes off within this country. Sheer spinelessness when it counts.

Because understanding how people view things is equivalent to taking up populism. I have no idea what you are on about.

Devrim

[dubaba]

I don't support them giving up there weapons, but armed struggle is pointless atm.

And to who call them cowards, I highly doubt that you have put your life on the line for the struggle. I highly doubt that they have given up all of there weapons, and even if they have there is still the possibility of getting more in the future.

[Saor]

I don't support disarmament of revolutionary groups. Even if they don't believe in using them at this time, they should have kept them.

[Niall]

I don't support disarmament of revolutionary groups. Even if they don't believe in using them at this time, they should have kept them.

I agree. I really hope they havent fully disarmed as that, along with PIRA disarming, in reality, leaves the republican andnationalist areas of the O6 defenceless. We have no nothing to defend ourselves with, while the state is armed to the teeth. Not a nice position to be in.
And yes, I use the words we and ours even though I live in Manchester as I was born and brought up in North Armagh, lived there until I was 25 when I moved to Manchester. It is and ever will be, home

[MaoTseHelen]

And a few days later, the DUP comes out in force accusing nationalists of "enforcing apartheid" in Portadown and "refusing to share the basic right to the road" - two separate MP's.

Great job irps, shinners and other company that completely dropped this ball.

[Niall]

And a few days later, the DUP comes out in force accusing nationalists of "enforcing apartheid" in Portadown and "refusing to share the basic right to the road" - two separate MP's.

Great job irps, shinners and other company that completely dropped this ball.

when was this. My mother's family is from portadown, a horrible place might i add. I remember the first kick off over the garvaghy road, which is the road in question i assume. Very scary times. Im from Lurgan by the way

[MaoTseHelen]

when was this. My mother's family is from portadown, a horrible place might i add. I remember the first kick off over the garvaghy road, which is the road in question i assume. Very scary times. Im from Lurgan by the way

It's here (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Parades-body-allows-cultural-apartheid.6066827.jp). Bonus: The two who said it are 2/3 of the DUP who will sit on the 6-member body that will replace the Parades Commission. Some choice quotes for you:



Afterwards, the three men criticised the commission "for allowing the Garvaghy Road Residents Coalition to create a cultural apartheid by backing Brendan McKenna and the GRRC, yet totally ignoring all attempts to create round-table talks".

Mr McCausland said: "The impression given by the GRRC is that they own a public road and they, therefore, decide who is allowed to use it.

"This bigoted and intransigent attitude is backed by the Parades Commission, who – week after week – come down on the side of the residents and ignore the Orange Order who are acting in a totally responsible manner."

I'm so glad to see the DUP has taken the disarmament moves with grace and haven't gone off the handle acting like, well, real life baiting ****s. This summer will be violent if they get their way, and no one will forget the INLA chucked away their guns just before it.

[IrishWorker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIfdwpB2Bw8&feature=player_embedded

[PRC-UTE]

Good to know populism should come before everything else. When it's popular to take oaths of allegiance, I suppose we ought to do that as well?

This is why the Left never takes off within this country. Sheer spinelessness when it counts.

éist liom...no one, not the irps or anyone else has stopped you from taking up arms. stop talking rubbish and do what you think is correct.

[PRC-UTE]

I don't support disarmament of revolutionary groups. Even if they don't believe in using them at this time, they should have kept them.

all of the republican (and loyalist) groups kept some arms. that was a part of the agreement. this is a détente.

[MaoTseHelen]

all of the republican (and loyalist) groups kept some arms. that was a part of the agreement. this is a détente.

No offense, but you're simply wrong. Full text of the GFA (http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/NIPeaceAgreement.pdf).


DECOMMISSIONING

1. Participants recall their agreement in the Procedural Motion adopted on 24 September 1997 "that the resolution of the decommissioning issue is an indispensable part of the process of negotiation", and also recall the provisions of paragraph 25 of Strand 1 above.

2. They note the progress made by the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning and the Governments in developing schemes which can represent a workable basis for achieving the decommissioning of illegally-held arms in the possession of paramilitary groups.

3. All participants accordingly reaffirm their commitment to the total disarmament of all paramilitary organisations. They also confirm their intention to continue to work constructively and in good faith with the Independent Commission, and to use any influence they may have, to achieve the decommissioning of all paramilitary arms within two years following endorsement in referendums North and South of the agreement and in the context of the implementation of the overall settlement.

4. The Independent Commission will monitor, review and verify progress on decommissioning of illegal arms, and will report to both Governments at regular intervals.

6. Both Governments will take all necessary steps to facilitate the decommissioning process to include bringing the relevant schemes into force by the end of June.

Oh, and Cameron is talking about getting rid of power sharing (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/13/david-cameron-ulster-unionists-editorial), now, and simply reverting to majority rule. In this case, majority would be a DUP/UUP merger mega-party with an alliance with the tories.

Still think the IRSP dropped the ball here.

[PRC-UTE]

No offense, but you're simply wrong. Full text of the GFA (http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/NIPeaceAgreement.pdf).


They let the PIRA, UDA, OIRA and INLA keep some of their gear as legally held arms. legally held weapons aren't part of the deal.

the former PIRA probably stiill has more arms than the RIRA does and certainly more than the CIRA :lol:

this isn't too surprising, really. the Troubles began when loyalists used legally held firearms against Catholics and Catholics fired back with legally owned weapons.

[MaoTseHelen]

They let the PIRA, UDA, OIRA and INLA keep some of their gear as legally held arms.

Source it, please. I want it to be true :P

[Andropov]

Source it, please. I want it to be true :P
Its true, anyone with any knowledge on these issues does not dispute this.
If memory serves me correct every PIRA Volunteer was allowed to keep a short each.

[pastradamus]

Source it, please. I want it to be true :P

Yes its true. Northern Ireland has a massively disproportionate amount of legally held weapons. The Six Counties have over 150,000 legally held pistols, Shotguns and rifles, When one considers that there are only 1.5m people in Northern Ireland its a pretty alarming statistic. There are almost more legally held weapons in NI than the in the Republic (5m people approx).

[MaoTseHelen]

Alright. Still, the SAMs... You have to admit, hurts to give some stuff like that up.

[Soldier of life]

Alright. Still, the SAMs... You have to admit, hurts to give some stuff like that up.

Not really since they were duds. And if they weren't, well some strong questions would have to be asked of the PRM leadership as to why they weren't used.

[MaoTseHelen]

Just saying, an arsenal like what PRM decommissioned is not one you regain on short notice, or even at all, unless you maintain some good connections.

[pastradamus]

Not really since they were duds. And if they weren't, well some strong questions would have to be asked of the PRM leadership as to why they weren't used.

According to a few publications on the surface to air missiles they were not duds and were actually test fired upon their arrival. However they were supposedly damaged during the transportation storage. Trust Qaddafi, The DSHK light machine guns he sent were in perfect working order but the belts he supplied were too narrow to fit in the weapon.

[Soldier of life]

According to a few publications on the surface to air missiles they were not duds and were actually test fired upon their arrival. However they were supposedly damaged during the transportation storage. Trust Qaddafi, The DSHK light machine guns he sent were in perfect working order but the belts he supplied were too narrow to fit in the weapon.

Yes I have read before South Armagh PIRA I think it was tested one and the missile just flew harmlessly past the army helicopter as there was some sort of flaw. However, I also heard before that they were purposely held back from use and were in working order.