I have Das Kapital

[commyrebel]

I finally have a copy of Das Kapital by Karl Marx
I want to know what u think of it?

[Uncle Rob]

I finally have a copy of Das Kapital by Karl Marx
I want to know what u think of it?

The first three chapters are really dull and kind of hard to get though but once you do its actually a very good read. I would suggest using some of the various study guides and preparatory works that are linked on other forums ( I would link them myself but I don't have enough posts to do so yet :/) but any Marxist should read it at least once. You could read "Wage-Labour and Capital" as an alternative because it covers the basics in Capital very generally.

[RED DAVE]

It makes a great door stop. :D

Seriously, read Wage, Labor and Capital (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm)and Value, Price and Profit (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/index.htm) first.

RED DAVE

[hugsandmarxism]

The Fetishism of Commodities (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch01.htm#S4) from Capital is the first Marx I ever read :)

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

I've never read it. I'm curious, though. Is there stuff of value in it given that many of his economic views have been refuted? The labor theory of value is largely dead, for good reason, too.

[commyrebel]

I've never read it. I'm curious, though. Is there stuff of value in it given that many of his economic views have been refuted? The labor theory of value is largely dead, for good reason, too.

It is largely dead yes in this world mass capitalist economy to a point it is still used in small proportions

[ZeroNowhere]

I've never read it. I'm curious, though. Is there stuff of value in it given that many of his economic views have been refuted? The labor theory of value is largely dead, for good reason, too.
They haven't been, they've been misrepresented to sow artificial internal inconsistencies, as Kliman and such have shown.

As to Capital, it's a great book, and doesn't really need any study guide or anything, though Colletti's introduction to Marx's early writings may help regarding commodity fetishism. "There is no royal road to science, and only those who do not dread the fatiguing climb of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits."

[KurtFF8]

I've never read it. I'm curious, though. Is there stuff of value in it given that many of his economic views have been refuted? The labor theory of value is largely dead, for good reason, too.

...huh?

I was unaware that Capital had been largely "refuted." If this were the case, publications like the Monthly Review and Historical Materialism would likely not continue to exist on the high intellectual level that they do.

Also, the labor theory of value still has quite a few proponents. At least amongst the revolutionary left, perhaps not in bourgeois economic circles which is what you appear to be appealing to with statements like this.

Capital is the most thorough critique of private property and also one of the most important works (if not the most important work) of the Left. I'm surprised that many of those who have responded in this thread seem to not know this.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

...huh?

I was unaware that Capital had been largely "refuted." If this were the case, publications like the Monthly Review and Historical Materialism would likely not continue to exist on the high intellectual level that they do.

Also, the labor theory of value still has quite a few proponents. At least amongst the revolutionary left, perhaps not in bourgeois economic circles which is what you appear to be appealing to with statements like this.

Capital is the most thorough critique of private property and also one of the most important works (if not the most important work) of the Left. I'm surprised that many of those who have responded in this thread seem to not know this.

To be fair, there are plenty of things on a high intellectual level that have been refuted. People just don't have the sense to believe that.

I wish leftists wouldn't demean alternative opinions as bourgeois whenever they disagree with them. That being said, I think I have confused the labor theory of value with something else.

Now I'm curious. I'm fairly confident something in Kapital was refuted. I remember hearing about it. I guess it was a liberal education class so it could be a bias. Oh well, I might remember later.

I think I either point labor theory of value by mistake or confused it with something else. Upon checking up on it again, there are some decent critics (i.e that the economy maximizes utility, not profit, by supply and demand). However, it's certainly not as bad off as I thought. Fridays and me thinking clearly seem to not coincide often.

[ZeroNowhere]

Probably the tendency of the rate of profit to fall. That would be the artificial inconsistencies.

[Belisarius]

i'm still looking for the book, it scares me how difficult it is to find almost any marxist book.

[Sogdian]

Fetishism of Commodities from Capital is the first Marx I ever read :)

I re-read this chapter a few times before reading the rest. Probably, it's one of the most powerful chapters by Karl Marx.

Commyrebel,
There are many sources online that could be useful to look at before/while reading the book. It's a long text and could be quite difficult and dull to read on your own. I suppose you are familiar with D. Harvey's lectures, and there is also downloadable Audio copy of Capital and Wage Labour and Capital (librivoxorg/newcatalog/search.php?title=capital+&author=karl+marx). I started reading it a few weeks ago and quite struggling. I think it's difficult for anyone who haven't read Marx's background fairly well.

[KurtFF8]

To be fair, there are plenty of things on a high intellectual level that have been refuted. People just don't have the sense to believe that.

I wish leftists wouldn't demean alternative opinions as bourgeois whenever they disagree with them. That being said, I think I have confused the labor theory of value with something else.

Now I'm curious. I'm fairly confident something in Kapital was refuted. I remember hearing about it. I guess it was a liberal education class so it could be a bias. Oh well, I might remember later.

I think I either point labor theory of value by mistake or confused it with something else. Upon checking up on it again, there are some decent critics (i.e that the economy maximizes utility, not profit, by supply and demand). However, it's certainly not as bad off as I thought. Fridays and me thinking clearly seem to not coincide often.

It seems that the kind of criticisms you're reading are in fact bourgeois ones. I suggest doing David Harvey's online class about Capital: http://davidharvey.org/reading-capital/ and you may get a better grasp on the nature of the book

[blake 3:17]

Isn't the essence of Marxism the critique of labour power as commodity?

[ZeroNowhere]

It seems that the kind of criticisms you're reading are in fact bourgeois ones.But more importantly, they're bollocks.

[Philosophical Materialist]

Capital 1 is excellent, but can seem very difficult at first. Begin with the final section of the book first which gives the historical materialist background to capital and capitalism. After that the book won't seem so daunting.

I'll also add that the Tedency of the Rate of Profit to Fall has not been refuted by bourgeois economics. All hithero so-called refutations have been shown to be fallacious and false.

[x359594]

...I'm fairly confident something in Kapital was refuted. I remember hearing about it. I guess it was a liberal education class so it could be a bias...

No doubt some points, some portions or all of Das Kapital have been refuted at some time or other and by some economist or other. The important point is that Marx's overall analysis of the structure and function of capitalism is still sound.

I strongly recommend Marx's Revenge by Meghnad Desai for a summary of all the alternative theories of capitalism measured against that of Marx.

[Buffalo Souljah]

Join our group. We've been reading and discussing Vol. 1 of Capital since December. http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=324