Deng Xiaoping

[sunfarstar]

I was born in 72 years, in my elementary school, when China entered the era of reform and opening up, which for 30 years, I have personally experienced the tremendous changes in China. I think all this can be attributed to Deng Xiaoping, chief architect of China's reform and opening up. However, I read his literature is to produce a number of questions, from the analysis point of view, his philosophy and Mao Tse-tung different. His philosophy is pragmatic, you do not see a trace of his literature fanatical superstition, some of China's basic situation of calm judgments. I, as a Marxist, he was admired. He is a completely different kind of Marxist. This may be, and his youth he studied in France's experiences. History has always left us with too much mystery. Do you think?

[btpound]

Deng Xiaoping is not a marxist. Den Xiaoping is an opprotunist. He went directly against almost everything Mao stood for. He didn't care about getting to communism. He just cared about making China a powerful country.

[red cat]

What were these changes like? Whom did they benefit ?

[sunfarstar]

Deng Xiaoping's not a Marxist, Are you are a Marxist it? I am here and you do not want to debate, China's reform and opening up 30 years of great change is universally recognized. I do not know is what kind of Marxist, the Chinese people to build their own country wrong? Is poverty and backwardness is communism? Ask you to answer!

[red cat]

I have come across the following ideas on communism that are probably being popularized in China by the government right now.

1) Communism means development and everyone getting rich. For everyone to get rich, some people have to get rich first.

2) Communism is all about cooperation, not hatred. All Chinese should cooperate with each other.

3) Industrialization is the only way to development. Big businessmen cause industrialization. So, big businessmen must be helped.

I am eager to know your thoughts about all this.

[sunfarstar]

Communism is not a country, and we entered the Chinese people since the era of reform and opening up a warm embrace of globalization. The problem is that globalization has brought China's most low-level class is the endless labors. Chinese have a tradition of hard work, but the Chinese people have never been rich, so that fair? So long ago, one of my friends in Shanghai, foreign artists did a device works of art, named "Do not dry." He uses a construction site in China, a common dumping a pile of bricks in trolleys, indicated that China's migrant workers to stop the endless working for others, and quite practical significance. In capitalist countries, people 不 干活 can enjoy a very high benefits in China?

[FSL]

Deng isn't an opportunist, he's a revisionist. There's some difference.


There is nothing wrong in Chinese people building their own country. In fact, that's what they should be doing. The problem is that now they are mostly building a country for the capitalists. And do so with very small wages too.

[sunfarstar]

A survey shows that China has now formed a 12 class mobility between social strata are worse. This is very bad. People came from work due to differences in education, income gap caused by more and more. So, I think that Chinese intellectuals of the proletariat to do are many.

[red cat]

Communism is not a country, and we entered the Chinese people since the era of reform and opening up a warm embrace of globalization. The problem is that globalization has brought China's most low-level class is the endless labors. Chinese have a tradition of hard work, but the Chinese people have never been rich, so that fair? So long ago, one of my friends in Shanghai, foreign artists did a device works of art, named "Do not dry." He uses a construction site in China, a common dumping a pile of bricks in trolleys, indicated that China's migrant workers to stop the endless working for others, and quite practical significance. In capitalist countries, people 不 干活 can enjoy a very high benefits in China?

Sorry, I don't understand your argument. Do you agree with the following point or not ?



1) Communism means development and everyone getting rich. For everyone to get rich, some people have to get rich first.

[sunfarstar]

This is Deng Xiaoping, in a certain historical stage to say. China's current problem is that people get rich first and still to pursue richer. This means that the gap between rich and poor will be further widened. This is economics called the Gini Coefficient. So now, it is clear President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao's policy is to help those poor people also have access to wealth of opportunities. I have the design of Deng Xiaoping's China Road is satisfactory.

[red cat]

This is Deng Xiaoping, in a certain historical stage to say. China's current problem is that people get rich first and still to pursue richer. This means that the gap between rich and poor will be further widened. This is economics called the Gini Coefficient. So now, it is clear President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao's policy is to help those poor people also have access to wealth of opportunities. I have the design of Deng Xiaoping's China Road is satisfactory.

So you basically agree with Deng's strategy of making some people rich first? Capitalism also makes some people immensely rich. How do we distinguish between a capitalist government and a communist government?

[sunfarstar]

Here's a question you have not noticed. Deng Xiaoping's theory, there are one: the four cardinal principles. It is to ensure that China will go on the road of socialism reasons. Now problem is that the gap between rich and poor in China Jiang Zemin, Zhu Rongji, during the left. From the great history, the two of them in power all these years is one of China's transition period. Although they left so many problems, but Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao are being addressed. I am concerned about is whether, after his successor Xi Jinping, Li Keqiang will turn left. You know, China's left-wing variety of forces are relentless and the right to combat it. Now if you learn more about the daily life of Chinese people will understand the ideology. After all, China is still called a socialist country, the Chinese Communist Party will not give up. If China is really the collapse of the Communist Party, it is the Chinese people, the true recipe for disaster.

[Monkey Riding Dragon]

I understand the rationale that, theoretically speaking, the current historical epoch in China is supposed to be like a protracted NEP-type period on steroids. But I very much disagree with the idea that communism is ever supposed to be about fostering greater exploitation. Communism is also supposed to be revolutionary and internationalist. Yet where on the face of the planet today do we see the CCP supporting any socialist revolutionary struggles?

Hu Jintao and his group have not moved China in a more socialistic direction. As far as I'm concerned, what they're doing these days is called damage control. Whereas the super-exploitation the people have been subjected to for decades now has yielded substantial popular anger at the government, now said regime seeks to challenge the very idea of broad ferment: partially through Keynesian-style bribery, partially through intimidation, and partially in a directly ideological way. Think about the slogan they're advancing: "The Harmonious Society". Dictionary.com defines something 'harmonious' as "marked by agreement in feeling, attitude, or action". Is that what socialism is about? Uniformity? Or was it not a fundamental contribution of Mao's that broad and open wrangling and ferment are crucial characteristics of a socialist society?

The mere fact that China is "still called a socialist country" doesn't make it so. In my opinion, the regime only persists in claiming to be socialist because socialism and Mao's legacy remain too popular in China to officially disavow.

[sunfarstar]

Indeed, the Chinese Communist Party is not supported anywhere in the world communist movement. Xi Jinping, I have seen a speech. He said: China would not export revolution. This is actually tantamount to recognition of the Chinese Communist Party is already out of the mainstream of the world communist movement. However, you should understand that the Chinese people are now pressing to change lives. China's current situation is still a large part of the people are poor. This is a long-term. Communist Party of China are not properly solved this problem, it will perish.

[fatboy]

Indeed, the Chinese Communist Party is not supported anywhere in the world communist movement. Xi Jinping, I have seen a speech. He said: China would not export revolution. This is actually tantamount to recognition of the Chinese Communist Party is already out of the mainstream of the world communist movement. However, you should understand that the Chinese people are now pressing to change lives. China's current situation is still a large part of the people are poor. This is a long-term. Communist Party of China are not properly solved this problem, it will perish.
But is it not a socialist's duty if able, to support other revolutions in the world such as Mao did. And I am sure China currently is more than able.

[sunfarstar]

I am not optimistic about the Chinese Communist Party can do a good job on China's own good.

[Nosotros]

Deng Xiaoping is not a marxist. Den Xiaoping is an opprotunist. He went directly against almost everything Mao stood for. He didn't care about getting to communism. He just cared about making China a powerful country.I don't think Mao can really be considered a Marxist either. He attempted to utilise the peasantry rather than the urban working class as the revolutionary class and rufused to believe that capitalism was a needed before Socialism could arrive and continuously defied the Marxist-Leninists of the USSR. His version of Socialism was a further distortion which had already taken place with the USSR but in a different way.

[red cat]

Here's a question you have not noticed. Deng Xiaoping's theory, there are one: the four cardinal principles. It is to ensure that China will go on the road of socialism reasons. Now problem is that the gap between rich and poor in China Jiang Zemin, Zhu Rongji, during the left. From the great history, the two of them in power all these years is one of China's transition period. Although they left so many problems, but Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao are being addressed. I am concerned about is whether, after his successor Xi Jinping, Li Keqiang will turn left. You know, China's left-wing variety of forces are relentless and the right to combat it. Now if you learn more about the daily life of Chinese people will understand the ideology. After all, China is still called a socialist country, the Chinese Communist Party will not give up. If China is really the collapse of the Communist Party, it is the Chinese people, the true recipe for disaster.

Can you explain exactly what ensures that China is on the socialist road?

[sunfarstar]

1. Fair to expand domestic demand
2. Just the creation of wealth
3. Equal to stimulate activity
4. The free enjoyment of Passion

This is our many Chinese left-wing consensus. A new piece of the four cardinal principles bar.

[scarletghoul]

I don't think Mao can really be considered a Marxist either. He attempted to utilise the peasantry rather than the urban working class as the revolutionary class
Marxism-Leninism needed to be adapted to the Chinese conditions. At the time the CPC's urban organisation and support had been largely smashed and the vast majority of China's population were peasants anyway. It's only logical to utilise the peasantry in such a situation (as they clearly are a potentially revolutionary class). To try and rely just on the urban prols would be the suicidal.

and rufused to believe that capitalism was a needed before Socialism could arrive
This is the Dengist criticism of the Maoist era, that they tried to just jump right into socialism without developing through capitalism. Are you a Dengist ?

and continuously defied the Marxist-Leninists of the USSR.
Yes, because the USSR's position was incorrect. And Mao proved it incorrect by defying them and winning the war. :p

His version of Socialism was a further distortion which had already taken place with the USSR but in a different way.
Replace 'distortion' with 'development' and I agree.

[scarletghoul]

I do think that Deng was a Marxist, of sorts. The Dengist path of capitalist development is based on the Marxist Theory of Productive Forces. Deng and the rest clearly understood/understand Marxist economics and all that, and I believe that he was genuinely trying to develop China to bring it closer to Communism.

However I think Dengism is incorrect as it has caused capitalist exploitation of people and could easily lead to the death of any trace of socialism in the PRC and its collapse into all-out capitalism

[FSL]

It's only logical to utilise the peasantry in such a situation (as they clearly are a potentially revolutionary class). To try and rely just on the urban prols would be the suicidal.



The who are what!?

[RedStarOverChina]

Replace 'distortion' with 'development' and I agree.
Too much injustice is done in the name of development. Nowhere is it more apparent than in China.

As a Marxist, I do subscribe to the Western model of stages of development in society as upheld by Marx and countless other Western economic historians.

That is to say, I grudgingly agree to the notion that capitalism is a necessary stage of development---necessary as it leads to more advanced stages of development.

Therefore, China's restoration of capitalism is as painful as it is necessary.

But that does not give Deng and his bureaucrats the right to "develop" China with utter disregard for the welfare of the working class. There is no excuse for the corruption and irresponsible disenfranchisement of the Chinese working class. They have utterly forsaken the welfare of the working class in favor of rapid development. That's my main problem with Deng and his people.

[scarletghoul]

Too much injustice is done in the name of development. Nowhere is it more apparent than in China.

As a Marxist, I do subscribe to the Western model of stages of development in society as upheld by Marx and countless other Western economic historians.

That is to say, I grudgingly agree to the notion that capitalism is a necessary stage of development---necessary as it leads to more advanced stages of development.

Therefore, China's restoration of capitalism is as painful as it is necessary.

But that does not give Deng and his bureaucrats the right to "develop" China with utter disregard for the welfare of the working class. There is no excuse for the corruption and irresponsible disenfranchisement of the Chinese working class. They have utterly forsaken the welfare of the working class in favor of rapid development. That's my main problem with Deng and his people.
I agree with you completely man. If you look you can see that my comment on 'development' was in reference to Maoism devloping Marxism-Leninism ideas, in response to that other guys off-topic post about Mao not being Marxist. I was not defending Dengism as necessary for development of the economy.

[sunfarstar]

Price bubble in the near future China will certainly be broken, but a matter of time. Many people may not know, China's elite class is the biggest in 20 years to build a plot, that is, to eliminate the middle class, to break the evolving pattern of society, Gan Lanxing reorganize the structure of Chinese society's wealth, prompting the Chinese people in the life under pressure to thoroughly abandon the people 丨 master of fantasy and national rejuvenation, kill all the progressive trend of pinch.

Throughout the development of national economies and social progress, are often driven by the Chinese and the middle class. In this class are many people who worked hard to squeeze from the bottom to rely on the mainstream of society, ideologically active, full of talented, sympathetic people's livelihood. The growth of this group is itself a symbol of social progress, while the institutional creation, scientific and technological progress, cultural renaissance and economic prosperity, both have non-containment conditions and progress in the creation of excited 丨 power, while neglecting the elite class.

After the formation of China's elite class has been looking for opportunities to strangle nascent middle class. However, on several occasions without success, particularly in the late 90s, a large number of higher education is full of idealism and passionate young people, all turned to the accumulation of personal wealth, great success, in a short period of time leap to become an emerging Chinese society力量. They have not only wealth but also of thoughts, and attempt to diagnose ills of Chinese society.

However, a huge question mark over the rising in China, that is, so many years of economic growth, people's livelihood has not improved, China's more than 10 million people worked hard, wealth gone? Some believe that the elite classes have been given over to the Americans, the data as evidence that China's foreign exchange reserves in the United States up to 2 more than one trillion U.S. dollars, is it really for the Chinese people brought about? Some directed through the state-owned enterprise restructuring and the loss of state property into private pockets, to form a new four big families, this is also the root causes of polarization intensified.

More than just were not enough, the elite class showing off ugly fight 丨 pressure on China stock market index fell from 6142 points to 1667 points, a direct, 20 trillion of wealth evaporated. The wealth of these have been evaporated, the public offering the fund intact, the majority of retail rivers of blood was devastated. The largest group of these individual investors is the newly emerging Chinese middle class. Despite the huge loss, but the group with vitality and the creation of shock 丨 situation, in a short period of six months on the restoration of the energy, described as "not exactly wild fire in spring life."

If you resort to 丨 pressure index, may be directly endanger the elite class status as fighting the enemy and losing 800 of the 1000 farce, so they soon find the soft underbelly of China's middle class, but also the soft underbelly of the entire Chinese people, That is to buy a house. So, while they are crazy devaluation of the RMB one hand, lift the price of manufacture mad king, while prices rise forever weaving dreams and lies, by the high prices set into the wealth of all urban residents. As a result, the house is not a house on the market, but more than the yuan currency to hedge against inflation with the functional equivalent of financial products.

However, the house, after all, is not money, first class all the people are being drawn into the house of wealth, a huge bubble should burst. China's lack of social wealth, the balance mechanism in this price bubble burst in the process of the emerging middle class full evaporation of wealth, the poor poorer. But certain to win 5% of the elite class, wealth is more fruitful. Demise of the middle class on their own, 95% of the Chinese people to lead in the three great mountains of oppression under the heavy life, no peace.

One can imagine, the future of China is only 5% of the rich. These people will be Chinese nationals looted the wealth, the basic will go to the United States continue to live rich days, China's land resource depletion, in addition to buildings and left a scorched-earth. Generation of Chinese, who in turn began to revive the rivers and mountains, and that the river flowing tears of the millennium the Chinese nation, and never dry.

[Monkey Riding Dragon]

Originally posted by scarletghoul:
I do think that Deng was a Marxist, of sorts...Deng and the rest clearly understood/understand Marxist economics and all that, and I believe that he was genuinely trying to develop China to bring it closer to Communism.I tend to view him as a nationalist, not a Marxist, and view his pseudo-Marxist rhetoric as insincere. It seems to me, looking at the famous "black cat, white cat" analogy he made for example, it's obvious that he didn't care what road, socialist or capitalist, China took so long as it became a powerful nation. The yes necessary path to revolution in China took involved patriotic forces on the one hand and couldn't fully rupture with all the old relations and ideas overnight on the other even while it did need to be continually making progress toward that latter goal. This was a significant contradiction that found political expression in people like Deng Xiaoping. It also wouldn't have been right to try to artificially suppress that contradiction. The matter of line had to be struggled out. The Cultural Revolution in this respect was turned back because it didn't win over a broad enough array of people in time to a correct understanding of the stakes involved.