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View Full Version : Economics and history: which is the horse, which the cart?



Tzadikim
2nd February 2010, 09:26
In every other great revolutionary epoch - I speak in particular of the transitionary eras between stages of historical development (the mercantilist era between feudalism and capitalism, the 'monastic' era that existed between the fall of the slave-centered Roman Empire and the rise of the estates, and so forth), there seems to be a period of percolation, in which the material conditions of society seem to exist as if on a pendulum, swinging to and fro between extremes - in point of fact, both 'extremes' can frequently be found to co-exist with one another, though one typically does dominate. The best example I can think of is the period immediately following the deposition of Romulus Augustus in 475 and the ultimate collapse of the Empire, but preceding the rise of Charles Martel and the Carolignians: the Germanic peoples that re-populated the Roman Empire converted swiftly from the slave-oriented agrarian forms of production of their Latin predecessors to one based wholly, or entirely, on a centralized monastic hub, all within the space of a few generations. Before the rise of the great feudal estates - which assumed almost completely unmolested the role the monasteries had previously held in Medieval economics - there was already the basic blue-print of the future inherent within the post-Roman economy.

I believe that historical epochs are not perfectly defined, and that this accords well with historical materialism. Aside from the example cited above, capitalism in its present form is known to have existed on a much smaller scale as early as the fourteenth century, when the rapid population decline associated with the Black Death led to an increasing inability on the part of the nobles to find serfs enough to operate their estates, causing them to initiate some of the first modern wage systems in the world. That this sort of proto-capitalism wasn't immediately adopted the world over hardly means that this wasn't its formative state.

Now, what I mean by all this is simple: I do not believe that even if a revolution were initiated worldwide tomorrow, that it would be a success. I do not believe this because I do not believe the structures necessary to support a global revolution today exist - the Communist movement has been heavy on theorizing and lax on making the effort to effectuate the necessary systems required before any revolutionary movements could occur.

If, for instance, tomorrow we were to wake up to find the entire capitalist world besieged from New York to New Delhi by Communist forces -- where would its supply of ammunition come from? Where its transportation? Where its communication (the Internet would likely be the first integral service to be shut down by its owners)?

The fact of the matter is that a revolutionary spirit is hindered, in large part, by the lack of pre-existing structures in place to support it. And this is directly the result of the hitherto immaturity of the capitalist system - we Communists often tend to forget the the Manifesto was written a mere one hundred and sixty-two years ago; the feudal world before it, in comparison, existed for very nearly a thousand years, and its earliest echoes can be found on the Roman frontier several hundred years before the collapse of the Western Romantic Empire.

What this all means, in summation, is that, instead of ideological bickering, and as an addendum to efforts at consciousness-raising, we ought to be focused on the very physical task of creating the sort of economy that we'd like to see implemented - we very literally ought to turn our energies towards establishing those institutions which will outlive the Revolution proper and prove indispensable to its stated aims. Simply because the mainstream of our society today is capitalist does not make this endeavor possible; to the contrary, the aforementioned examples of simultaneous systems makes it possible.

At the same time, I am not interested in joining a monastery or running away to some commune in California. What I want is to focus less on Communism in the abstract, and more on how each industry will grow and thrive and operate functionally under it. I'm less interested right now in armed militancy and more in technological progress that can render capitalism utterly irrelevant.

[/rant]

Crusade
12th February 2010, 08:08
This thread is a God send. I agree completely.

EDIT

I figured I should at least contribute something to the thread. A lot of leftists are still in the phase of explaining communism to their friend/family/classmates/coworkers etc. We need the public on our side before we do anything. Here in America, we saw what happened with the Black Panthers. They were labeled terrorists, the FBI singled them out, and now a large portion of the country looks at them as the Black KKK. If we tried to do ANYTHING right now, what would be said about us? Our actions could be food for slander, taken out of context, and the communist "image" could get even scarier. Every time anyone has a demonstration against anything nowadays, some "anarchist" comes and randomly does something violent(-_- right). We need as much support as we can.


I'm a communist because I'm in favor of life and equality. I'm against all abuses of power, but most of all the suppression of potential. We shouldn't create any more enemies than we already have. Those involved with the state for the most are lost causes(although I don't count them out), but our fellow workers need to understand that we're on THEIR side. And what I'm saying seems like I'm vomiting out stuff that gets brought up by frustrated leftists all the time, yammering about the media and all of these misconceptions, but it's important. I don't look at the revolution as a war at all. We're getting rid of criminals, plain and simple. It'd be fine if it were as simple as getting rid of an enemy, but it's not. Our enemy's "weapons" are WORKERS.

Tzadikim
12th February 2010, 10:56
I do agree with you, but I had hoped to make a singular point with this thread. And that point is this - how are we sure that capitalism has sufficiently developed to render Communism possible? As I said before, slave-based society has existed for thousands of years, and gave way to feudalism only recently, relatively speaking. While there does seem to be a trend of each epoch ending more quickly than the last, we must never make the mistake of believing that this epoch is truly and finally done with. I have adopted a personal policy of "wait and see", along with trying to get people together to work on revolutionary structures that can be expanded on during a truly revolutionary phase.

The Bolsheviks made the mistake of rushing things. I do not want to repeat that error.

Marxism is a science. And, like all sciences, it is demonstrable: we can prove that the redistribution of the physical means of production is more economical than the private possession of the same by a ruling class. We ought therefore, when we can, make this our praxis - to familiarize the working-class with communal possession through a series of small-scale experiments. In this we can kill two birds with one stone, by stirring support and by laying the groundwork which can subsequently be used for revolutionary ends

ckaihatsu
13th February 2010, 11:14
[H]ow are we sure that capitalism has sufficiently developed to render Communism possible? As I said before, slave-based society has existed for thousands of years, and gave way to feudalism only recently, relatively speaking.


Communism could have been possible as early as around the year 1000 (and still *is* viable). All that's really *required*, as far as a material basis is concerned, is a productivity that frees people from having to constantly labor for their livelihood and increasing standard of living. Obviously if a society requires the labor of slaves then humanity has, by definition, been partitioned and full liberation has not been realized. But once technological advances in agricultural techniques allow for a ready surplus then people are freed to live their lives and to be a part of an ever expanding *cultural* world.





The backward go forward

[...] Europe’s very backwardness encouraged people to adopt new ways of wresting a livelihood from elsewhere. Slowly, over many centuries, they began to apply techniques already known in China, India, Egypt, Mesopotamia and southern Spain. There was a corresponding slow but cumulative change in the social relations of society as a whole, just as there had been in Sung China or the Abbasid caliphate. But this time it happened without the enormous dead weight of an old imperial superstructure to smother continued advance. The very backwardness of Europe allowed it to leapfrog over the great empires.

The first changes were in cultivation. Those who lived off the land during the Dark Ages may have been illiterate, superstitious and ignorant of the wider world. But they knew where their livelihood came from and were prepared, slowly, to embrace new methods of cultivation that enabled them more easily to fill their bellies if they got the chance. In the 6th century a new design of plough, ‘the heavy wheeled plough’ capable of coping with heavy but fertile soil, appeared among the Slav people of eastern Europe and spread westwards over the next 300 years.91 With it came new methods of grazing, which used cattle dung to fertilise the land. Together they allowed a peasant family to increase its crop yield by 50 percent in ‘an agrarian pattern which produced more meat, dairy produce, hides and wool than ever before, but at the same time improved the harvest of grain’.92 One economic historian claims, ‘It proved to be the most productive agrarian method, in relation to manpower, that the world had ever seen’.93

[...]

Such advance depended to a very large extent on the ingenuity of the peasant producers. But it also required something else—that the feudal lords allowed a portion of the surplus to go into agricultural improvement rather than looting it all.

[...]

The full adoption of new techniques involved a change in relations between lords (whether warrior or religious) and cultivators. The great landholders finally had to abandon the wasteful Roman practice of slave labour—a practice that lingered on as late as the 10th century. Then they began to discover advantages in ‘serfdom’, in parcelling out land to peasant households in return for a share of the produce. The serfs had an incentive for working as hard as they could and employing new techniques on their holdings. As total output rose, the lords’ incomes also rose, especially as they used their military might to force previously free peasants into serfdom. What Bois calls ‘the transformation of the year 1000’ spelt the final end of agricultural slavery—and the final establishment of feudal serfdom as a more dynamic mode of production than the old Roman system.100

The importance of what happened in the countryside between about 1000 and 1300 is all too easily underrated by those of us for whom food is something we buy from supermarkets. A doubling of the amount of food produced by each peasant household transformed the possibilities for human life across Europe. Whoever controlled the extra food could exchange it for the goods carried by the travelling traders or produced by the artisans.

Crudely, grain could be changed into silk for the lord’s family, iron for his weapons, furnishing for his castle, wine and spices to complement his meal. It could also be turned into means that would further increase the productivity of the peasant cultivators—wooden ploughs with iron tips, knives, sickles, and, in some cases, horses with bridles, bits and iron shoes.


The rest of the communist question is about whether the ruling class "management" is seen as too much of a burden and entanglement to bear -- certainly we are *currently* in a material position to *consider* alternatives to the "market" (financial-imperialist) system of economic coordination.

I've developed a model for this which has been discussed here at RevLeft. Feel free to take a look.


Chris



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Dimentio
13th February 2010, 16:05
The nature is the horse. The technological base is the wheels. The cart is human civilisation.

Wolf Larson
17th February 2010, 06:15
Look into the ancient city of Caral. It has dispelled many early theories on civilization. I feel Caral will be important for a newer socialist critique of history. I'll post more details later when I have time.